Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

why is homophobia commonplace?


  • Please log in to reply
415 replies to this topic

#316    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 31,179 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:45 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 18 March 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

Defending gay rights can result in one being accused of being gay.  Kinda funny; I also defend women's rights and no one accuses me of being a woman.

BWahahahahaha, well mate, if you look anything at all like I do, nobody is going to be making that mistake!

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#317    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 14,045 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:46 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 18 March 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

I do not think there is anything wrong with being revolted at the abuse of another person. Physical violence and deprivation of liberty is OK to be revolted by IMHO. A Pedo does revolt me more than a thief, a thief might even feel remorse and might need to be stealing to feed children. A pedo in my opinion has forfeited his right to existence in a social group.
Gay people I have nothing to say on.
This is a minor point that hinges most likely on how you define "revolted."  The Buddha taught that one of the main causes of human suffering stems from the revulsions we experience.  If we would reduce our suffering, then, we can do so by learning to be objective about those things that revolt us.  One of the most revolting things, we agree, is the suffering of others that we can do nothing about.  We read in the paper of some atrocity, and it causes us to suffer by remote control.  Now it may be that a little of that sort of suffering won't hurt, and may have positive effects -- fine -- but if you would avoid suffering recognize that when you have such feelings it is only you who suffer.  Your suffering does no one else any good.


#318    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 31,179 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:21 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 18 March 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

This is a minor point that hinges most likely on how you define "revolted."  The Buddha taught that one of the main causes of human suffering stems from the revulsions we experience.  If we would reduce our suffering, then, we can do so by learning to be objective about those things that revolt us.  One of the most revolting things, we agree, is the suffering of others that we can do nothing about.  We read in the paper of some atrocity, and it causes us to suffer by remote control.  Now it may be that a little of that sort of suffering won't hurt, and may have positive effects -- fine -- but if you would avoid suffering recognize that when you have such feelings it is only you who suffer.  Your suffering does no one else any good.

That is very interesting, thank you for the insights from a Buddhist perspective Frank. I would agree that suffering does not assist others, but it does help one overcome grief or other feelings, therefore it seems to have a necessary function?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#319    ciriuslea

ciriuslea

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 490 posts
  • Joined:08 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Male

  • CHAMP20NS

Posted 18 March 2013 - 11:05 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 18 March 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

Defending gay rights can result in one being accused of being gay.  Kinda funny; I also defend women's rights and no one accuses me of being a woman.
Being referred to as gay isn't confined to those who defend homosexuality, The conclusion in many of your replies to being revolted by homosexuality was due to "self-deception of their buried feelings"
I prefer the term refer over accused, it makes it sound like being gay is a crime, and that statement actually says more than any words can hide


#320    Detective Mystery 2014

Detective Mystery 2014

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,322 posts
  • Joined:31 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:twilight zone's outer limits

  • Mysteries are tomorrow's histories.

Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:44 AM

View Postshadowhive, on 17 March 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

It's not mischaracterising when so many of members of the church leadership demonise gay people because of their pathetic little dogma. I'm not going to say 'Oh, you've done a few good things? Ok then, that makes you can treat gay people like ****'. The world doesn't work like that.

Like I said before, look at all the bad christianity has historically bought to the world. Destruction of cultures, war, increasing the suffering of the people in Africa because of their teachings. Most of the social ills you seem to praise them for solving were caused by them in the first place. But yeah, let's ignore thatfor the 'good' they're doing.

If they were at the 'forefront of civil rights' they wouldn't be working very hard to deny gay people theirs and yet here we are, they're doing just that.

I see. You just like to criticize Christianity, and you judge all its adherents by its extremists. I doubt that you judge homosexuals by the deeds and words of gay extremists. You likely would condemn people who do so.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#321    Detective Mystery 2014

Detective Mystery 2014

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,322 posts
  • Joined:31 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:twilight zone's outer limits

  • Mysteries are tomorrow's histories.

Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:50 AM

View Postciriuslea, on 17 March 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

That's all well and good and if you take the time to read my posts you would have read that not in any of them did I say gay people don't deserve equal rights or endorse any discrimination or violence against them, when we speak about rights, its not something we can pick and choose, and so everyone has the right to feel the way they do, even if they don't agree with homosexuality, I don't know how to put it any plainer,  
My argument is that the homophobe slur and label is then used to ostracize people who don't agree with homosexuality...its quite within our rights not to agree with homosexuality..or do you disagree ?

I just want to add, the crime a homophobic person would commit would be assault or sexual discrimination, or abuse of some kind, I don't think homophobia is a crime just yet (but I suspect some people would prefer it) I think the moment we start punishing people for how they feel is the day we realize we are all ****ed.

They want control and power over other people, and they use propaganda to achieve this. It's just a form of social engineering. It's an obvious, transparent strategy used by activists to demonize opponents, and they don't seem to grasp the fact that it may backfire on them. They may have to learn the hard way.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#322    shadowhive

shadowhive

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,936 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Uk

Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:55 AM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 19 March 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

They want control and power over other people, and they use propaganda to achieve this. It's just a form of social engineering. It's an obvious, transparent strategy used by activists to demonize opponents, and they don't seem to grasp the fact that it may backfire on them. They may have to learn the hard way.

That sounds exactly like how most religions operate and have done for centuries.

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 19 March 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

I see. You just like to criticize Christianity, and you judge all its adherents by its extremists. I doubt that you judge homosexuals by the deeds and words of gay extremists. You likely would condemn people who do so.

No, I criticise all religions that act that way, not just christianity. I also criticise christianity because it 'takes the moral high ground' as justificationor it's actions. Well it's taken the moral high ground before historically with disastorous results against pretty much every section of humanity. I judge adherents by what they do and some are just hypocritical to the extreme. As I mentioned before all 'sins' are mentioned as being equal, but homosexuality is singled out for special worse treatment unlike all of the rest, despite actual mentions of homosexuality in the bible being thin on the ground.

There is a reason why you shouldn't judge all homosexuals in such a way. Gay people don't all follow a dogma. There is nothing unifying that all gay people must do (the same way there's nothing holding together all hetrosexuals, women, black people or people with blue eyes). Judging gay people (or any of those other groups) based on the actions of a few is ridiculous to the extreme. However, in the case of christianity (and other religions) the adherents are holding to a dogma which they can be judged by in a way those other groups do not. Put plainly, christians have the bible, but people with blue eyes don't have a 'blue eyed text' or something similar.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#323    shadowhive

shadowhive

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,936 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Uk

Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:08 AM

View Postciriuslea, on 17 March 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

That's all well and good and if you take the time to read my posts you would have read that not in any of them did I say gay people don't deserve equal rights or endorse any discrimination or violence against them, when we speak about rights, its not something we can pick and choose, and so everyone has the right to feel the way they do, even if they don't agree with homosexuality, I don't know how to put it any plainer,  
My argument is that the homophobe slur and label is then used to ostracize people who don't agree with homosexuality...its quite within our rights not to agree with homosexuality..or do you disagree ?

I just want to add, the crime a homophobic person would commit would be assault or sexual discrimination, or abuse of some kind, I don't think homophobia is a crime just yet (but I suspect some people would prefer it) I think the moment we start punishing people for how they feel is the day we realize we are all ****ed.

Ok, I'm going to put it as plainly as I can.

'Agreeing with homosexuality' is an odd term. Since homosexuality is an inborn trait, agreeing or disagreeing with it doesn't seem logical. Gay people exist and you have to deal with that reality. A lot of people seem unwilling to do that and suse 'I don't agree with it' as an excuse to discriminate as if that's reasonable.

I don't think homophobia should be encouraged for the same reason that rascism and sexism shouldn't be encouraged or endorsed.

Sexism and racism are both looked down on because of what they lead to and because they involve treating a group as inferior. Why should homophobia be treated differently?

Also to add, if your issue is with the sex. That is very much your problem to deal with. If you introduced yourself to anyone as a hetrosexual male would you expect people to think about the type o sex you may have? No you wouldn't. If the first thing that comes to mind when you think of homosexuality is the sex, you have to deal with that because it's ridiculous.

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with not liking a particular activity yourself (be it playing a sport, drinking coffee or sexual activity). If you don't like gay sex no one's gonna force you to do it or watch it anymore than cofee drinkers will force me to drink coffee.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#324    shadowhive

shadowhive

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,936 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Uk

Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:18 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 18 March 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

I do not think there is anything wrong with being revolted at the abuse of another person. Physical violence and deprivation of liberty is OK to be revolted by IMHO. A Pedo does revolt me more than a thief, a thief might even feel remorse and might need to be stealing to feed children. A pedo in my opinion has forfeited his right to existence in a social group.
Gay people I have nothing to say on. When I did approach the subject in a similar fashion to DM, I was accused of being gay. You're better off leaving well enough alone and dealing with the situation through the voting polls. They make the laws we all have to live by wether we like it or not anyway. Might as well tread the legal path.

Hey psyche, it's been awhile, hope you're ok.

I agree the abuse of another (espeially a child) is certainly something worthy of revulsion.

I think it gets bought up like that because the nature of homosexuality. I mean you can't be a racist against black people while being black yourself, because skin colour is an obvious trait that can be seen by anyone that looks at you. Whereas with homosexuality, you can't tell simply by looking at someone. So a person can be homophobic while being gay themselves and you can't tell (unlike the rascist example). Personally? I don't buy that every homophobic person is secretly gay themselves. I do think they are those which are (a number of vocal anti-gay rights people have been caught having secret affairs with men which I think is where all this comes from).

As for putting things to the polls as I said before to you, should civil rights really be put to the popular vote in a such a manner?

View PostFrank Merton, on 18 March 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

Defending gay rights can result in one being accused of being gay.  Kinda funny; I also defend women's rights and no one accuses me of being a woman.

Yeah it's odd you can be accused either way. In that respect it's 'guilt' by association and  pretty cheap shot.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#325    ciriuslea

ciriuslea

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 490 posts
  • Joined:08 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Male

  • CHAMP20NS

Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:33 AM

View Postshadowhive, on 19 March 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

A lot of people seem unwilling to do that and suse 'I don't agree with it' as an excuse to discriminate as if that's reasonable.
I've already covered this in my original post!!


To dispell any further misunderstanding please read what I post not what you think it means,

As for inborn traits, lol we have many inborn traits we don't accept in society just because homosexuality is an 'inborn trait' doesn't mean anyone has to like it. that's absurd
I never mentioned anything about encouraging any crimes against gay people, and the reasons don't matter why someone should object to homosexuality they still have the right to.

So I'm guessing then that you don't think people have a right to feel the way they do ?

As for your last statement...that's interesting as you say " If you don't like gay sex no one's gonna force you to do it or watch it anymore than cofee drinkers will force me to drink coffee" but yet people are forced to think and feel the way society deems as PC by PC pressures.


#326    MissingAChance

MissingAChance

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 58 posts
  • Joined:08 Jan 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Underground Bunker

  • There's small choice in rotten apples.

Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:50 AM

Posted Image

You and your mom are hilbillies. This is a house of learning doctors.


#327    shadowhive

shadowhive

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,936 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Uk

Posted 19 March 2013 - 03:48 PM

View Postciriuslea, on 19 March 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

I've already covered this in my original post!!


To dispell any further misunderstanding please read what I post not what you think it means,

As for inborn traits, lol we have many inborn traits we don't accept in society just because homosexuality is an 'inborn trait' doesn't mean anyone has to like it. that's absurd
I never mentioned anything about encouraging any crimes against gay people, and the reasons don't matter why someone should object to homosexuality they still have the right to.

So I'm guessing then that you don't think people have a right to feel the way they do ?

As for your last statement...that's interesting as you say " If you don't like gay sex no one's gonna force you to do it or watch it anymore than cofee drinkers will force me to drink coffee" but yet people are forced to think and feel the way society deems as PC by PC pressures.

I know you did. The point I'm trying to make is if you don't treat homophobia as a problem (like sexism/rascism) then it's going to cause problems.

Why shold sexuality be a trait that society doesn't accept? It doesn't harm anyone. That's absurd.

Let me state it plainly with an example. If someone treats women as being inferior, as being less than men they will be called on it. Same if they were being rascist. It doesn't matter how sincerely you believe that those people are inferior, it's still wrong and you'll still be called on it. Same if someone didn't accept someone on the basis of the colour of their skin. I fail to see why 'sincere' homophobia should be accepted in way 'sincere' sexism and  'sincere' rascism is not.

To your last point, I'd pint something out to you. To use the example of coffee drinkers. No one cares either way if you like coffee or hate it. No one is being forced to drink it if they don't want to. No one is forcing people not to drink it. No one is taking away people's rights because they do or don't drink coffee, or treat them as less equal.

Now let's look at gay people. Are they treated differently than straight people? Yes. Do they have less rights because of their sexuality? Yes. Are people demonising them and treating them inferior because of their sexuality? Yes.

Gay people want equal rights and for wanting that they re demonised or insulted or it's labelled as 'PC thinking'. To use the coffee example again. Is it PC thinking to expect people to be treated equally regardles of if they drink coffee or not?

People are not being forced to think anything, but attitudes are changing and people have to start actin like their in a real world and not act like immature idiots.

View PostMissingAChance, on 19 March 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Posted Image

I imgine if someone liked hot dogs they'd really like that

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#328    Professor Buzzkill

Professor Buzzkill

    Integrity is all we have

  • Member
  • 2,583 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:White Cloud

Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:24 PM

View Postshadowhive, on 19 March 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

I know you did. The point I'm trying to make is if you don't treat homophobia as a problem (like sexism/rascism) then it's going to cause problems.

Why shold sexuality be a trait that society doesn't accept? It doesn't harm anyone. That's absurd.

Let me state it plainly with an example. If someone treats women as being inferior, as being less than men they will be called on it. Same if they were being rascist. It doesn't matter how sincerely you believe that those people are inferior, it's still wrong and you'll still be called on it. Same if someone didn't accept someone on the basis of the colour of their skin. I fail to see why 'sincere' homophobia should be accepted in way 'sincere' sexism and  'sincere' rascism is not.

To your last point, I'd pint something out to you. To use the example of coffee drinkers. No one cares either way if you like coffee or hate it. No one is being forced to drink it if they don't want to. No one is forcing people not to drink it. No one is taking away people's rights because they do or don't drink coffee, or treat them as less equal.

Now let's look at gay people. Are they treated differently than straight people? Yes. Do they have less rights because of their sexuality? Yes. Are people demonising them and treating them inferior because of their sexuality? Yes.

Gay people want equal rights and for wanting that they re demonised or insulted or it's labelled as 'PC thinking'. To use the coffee example again. Is it PC thinking to expect people to be treated equally regardles of if they drink coffee or not?

People are not being forced to think anything, but attitudes are changing and people have to start actin like their in a real world and not act like immature idiots.



I imgine if someone liked hot dogs they'd really like that

Just to clarify. What rights are gay people missing? The right to get married to a member of the same sex? that is not a right, and anyone can get married within the law (i.e man & woman). For example, i can marry a woman, but cannot marry a man. The same is true for a homosexual. Equal rights for all...

However, my country is one step closer to gay marriage after the "Definition of Marriage" amendment. There were ceremonies that gave the same rights as marriage, as well as defacto relationships which entitled partners to similar rights regardless of sex. So the gay agenda has sold the lie about human rights  when the problem is the definition of the word marriage.


#329    ciriuslea

ciriuslea

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 490 posts
  • Joined:08 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Male

  • CHAMP20NS

Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:59 PM

That's fine your entitled to your opinion, as I am I or am I ? I guess not


#330    shadowhive

shadowhive

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,936 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Uk

Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:13 AM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 19 March 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Just to clarify. What rights are gay people missing? The right to get married to a member of the same sex? that is not a right, and anyone can get married within the law (i.e man & woman). For example, i can marry a woman, but cannot marry a man. The same is true for a homosexual. Equal rights for all...

However, my country is one step closer to gay marriage after the "Definition of Marriage" amendment. There were ceremonies that gave the same rights as marriage, as well as defacto relationships which entitled partners to similar rights regardless of sex. So the gay agenda has sold the lie about human rights  when the problem is the definition of the word marriage.

Ah that old arguement. It's a tired one really, but one that always gets bought up as if it's a valid arguement when it's not.

In a lot of cases civil unions/defacto relationships/civil partnerships are just watered down versions of marriage. They cover a varying amount of bases depending on where you are, but a lot of the time they actually don't have 100% equal rights as a marriage does.

A thing I'll point out (and I always will) is that mariage as an institution has evolved over the years. Everyone seems to act as if it's set in stone, but it's not. While yes it has always been a male/female partnership it has changed. Women were, fo a long time considered property and weren't given a choice who to marry. You couldn't marry someone of a different race, or religion. You'll find that marrying for love with both parties consent is a very recent concept yet it's held up as being tradition. Many of the rights that are part of marriage are also fairly new as well.

Edited by shadowhive, 20 March 2013 - 02:15 AM.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users