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Japan will never stop whaling, minister says


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#16    FLOMBIE

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:58 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 27 February 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Does it really surprise anyone that a country who, not so long ago, thought nothing of exterminating entire villages and groups of people (torturing and experimenting with them) and who also execute their own, human citizens, would not have the compassion, morality or sense to stop killing these beautiful creatures? It doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

We should sanction them to high heaven. A one-week embargo - stopping imports and exports and crippling their economy - would solve this problem in around 8 days.
I fail to see the connection. Or am I just glad us Germans don't do that. :unsure: Well, the Japanese, just like any other nationality, are not bad per se.

And I'd like to add: Japan is not the only nation that is hunting whales.

Edited by FLOMBIE, 27 February 2013 - 02:06 PM.


#17    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:11 PM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 27 February 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

I fail to see the connection. Or am I just glad us Germans don't do that. :unsure: Well, the Japanese, just like any other nationality, are not bad per se.

The connection is one of a lack of morality. And my post was possibly a bit exclaimed by the fact that I think the Japanese stance on this is horrible. But maybe that's just because I liked Star Trek IV?

Germany, after WW2, made sure its citizens (both West and East) did not forget the actions of WW2. They did not try to hide it and went far in making sure nothing like that happened again in the future. Japan, however, for decades stopped their education system from revealing any of the actions committed by their forces, completely whitewashing their horrendous atrocities. So today's Germany, and today's Japan cannot be compared in that respect.


#18    FLOMBIE

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:12 PM

That's fair enough.


#19    Myles

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:12 PM

Playing devils advocate here:
Whether the creature is viewed as "beautiful" by some people is irrevelant.
Not sure that any other country can make this illegal for another country.   However if the waters are in a recognized area of another country it can be done.
It's up to Japan to make this illegal.   If it is legal, should people be terrorizing the ships that are doing the hunting.  Where I am, it is legal to hunt deer.   I would not be on the side of anyone who trashes deer hunters trucks because they feel killing deer is wrong.


#20    CrimsonKing

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:19 PM

View PostMyles, on 27 February 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

Playing devils advocate here:
Whether the creature is viewed as "beautiful" by some people is irrevelant.
Not sure that any other country can make this illegal for another country.   However if the waters are in a recognized area of another country it can be done.
It's up to Japan to make this illegal.   If it is legal, should people be terrorizing the ships that are doing the hunting.  Where I am, it is legal to hunt deer.   I would not be on the side of anyone who trashes deer hunters trucks because they feel killing deer is wrong.

Big difference between whale hunting and deer hunting.Deer hunting has tag limits and there are millions and millions of deer.Whales not so much.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#21    FLOMBIE

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:20 PM

That depends on the kind of whale, though. They are not all endangered.


#22    CrimsonKing

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:23 PM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 27 February 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

That depends on the kind of whale, though. They are not all endangered.

True,but are there limits on how many can be taken in a season?Do we have any statistics showing what kind of whales these fisherman go after?

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#23    Myles

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:25 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 27 February 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Big difference between whale hunting and deer hunting.Deer hunting has tag limits and there are millions and millions of deer.Whales not so much.
But if it is legal, the hunters are not doing wrong.   There are many who think that killing raccoons is wrong, but I have to because they are a menace to me.  It's legal for me to kill them.   If it was illegal, I probably would not kill them.


#24    CrimsonKing

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:28 PM

View PostMyles, on 27 February 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

But if it is legal, the hunters are not doing wrong.   There are many who think that killing raccoons is wrong, but I have to because they are a menace to me.  It's legal for me to kill them.   If it was illegal, I probably would not kill them.

I get what you are saying japan needs to police themselves a bit better on the issue,and yes raccoons can be a pain in the ass so damn destructive of anything they are around hahaha

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#25    Moon Gazer

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:29 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 27 February 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

True,but are there limits on how many can be taken in a season?Do we have any statistics showing what kind of whales these fisherman go after?

It's mink, humpback and fin wales that are killed.  Happens in Iceland and Norway too :(


#26    Moon Gazer

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:31 PM

View PostMyles, on 27 February 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

But if it is legal, the hunters are not doing wrong.   There are many who think that killing raccoons is wrong, but I have to because they are a menace to me.  It's legal for me to kill them.   If it was illegal, I probably would not kill them.

Commercial hunting has been banned.  They get away with it in Japan by saying they are hunting for "science".  No one needs that many wales for science.


#27    CrimsonKing

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:38 PM

View PostMoon Gazer, on 27 February 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Commercial hunting has been banned.  They get away with it in Japan by saying they are hunting for "science".  No one needs that many wales for science.

If this is true then they get what they deserve from whoever gives it to them.As you have said no one needs as many as they get for science,almost like how the chinese gather up a load of sharks cut off there fin then throw them back in the water.Pointless!

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#28    FLOMBIE

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:42 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 27 February 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

True,but are there limits on how many can be taken in a season?Do we have any statistics showing what kind of whales these fisherman go after?
I don't know about limits, but they hunt mostly minke whales, which are not endangered at all. They also go for whales classified as 'vulnerable' or 'endangered', but in significantly smaller numbers.

What I find odd is that everybody is attacking the Japanese, but the Norwegians, Icelandics(sic?), or Danes usually get away with it.


#29    Moon Gazer

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:44 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 27 February 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

If this is true then they get what they deserve from whoever gives it to them.As you have said no one needs as many as they get for science,almost like how the chinese gather up a load of sharks cut off there fin then throw them back in the water.Pointless!

Apparently they are allowed to kill something like 950 wales a year for scientific research.  What kind of research are they doing that needs 950 wales a year?  And of course no one is actually keeping count.

View PostFLOMBIE, on 27 February 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

I don't know about limits, but they hunt mostly minke whales, which are not endangered at all. They also go for whales classified as 'vulnerable' or 'endangered', but in significantly smaller numbers.

What I find odd is that everybody is attacking the Japanese, but the Norwegians, Icelandics(sic?), or Danes usually get away with it.

Yep they also do it.  I just commented above.


#30    CrimsonKing

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:46 PM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 27 February 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

I don't know about limits, but they hunt mostly minke whales, which are not endangered at all. They also go for whales classified as 'vulnerable' or 'endangered', but in significantly smaller numbers.

What I find odd is that everybody is attacking the Japanese, but the Norwegians, Icelandics(sic?), or Danes usually get away with it.

I am not attacking any one group,just staying on topic "Japan will never stop whaling,minister says"

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu




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