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Japan will never stop whaling, minister says


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#46    Frank Merton

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:48 PM

I don't like excessive commercial fishing, and the world certainly needs to find ways to regulate it and enforce the regulations.  That is one thing.

Cetaceans are something else -- an entirely different issue.  These are intelligent animals, sensate in ways we don't even understand.  It is not significantly different from if Australian aborigines were declared acceptable as a target for hunting.


#47    FLOMBIE

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:50 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 27 February 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Agreed whales do not spawn like fish though,it is becoming more and more apparent we are overfishing our oceans as a whole.I will not speculate any further,but i would not put these creatures out of that realm of possibility.
Indeed. There is nothing wrong with keeping an eye open. My only problems stands with the hypocrisy some people are showing, including groups like the Sea Shephard (which is also a very stupid name for them, in my opinion, since a shephard is herding animals for commercial reasons).


#48    FLOMBIE

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:54 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 27 February 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

I don't like excessive commercial fishing, and the world certainly needs to find ways to regulate it and enforce the regulations.  That is one thing.

Cetaceans are something else -- an entirely different issue.  These are intelligent animals, sensate in ways we don't even understand.  It is not significantly different from if Australian aborigines were declared acceptable as a target for hunting.
Pigs are extraordinary smart as well. But I do not value animals according to their intelligence . Only if they are highly endangered I do see an issue.

Edited by FLOMBIE, 27 February 2013 - 03:54 PM.


#49    Frank Merton

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:59 PM

Well I don't eat pork, but two points:

First, two wrongs don't make a right.  The issue here is cetaceans.

Second, I don't think pigs are as intelligent as are cetaceans.  The more intelligent the worse the offense.


#50    FLOMBIE

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:04 PM

You might be wrong on that. Hereis a nice read I have found after a very quick google search.

Like I said, I do not value an animal's worth on their intelligence. The same goes for humans. It's discrimination.

Edited by FLOMBIE, 27 February 2013 - 04:04 PM.


#51    Myles

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:21 PM

2006 numbers.
Japan - 866 whales
Icland - 60 whales
Norway - 545 whales

http://wwf.panda.org.../whaling_facts/

Norway has been commercial whaling since 1993 (that's when the broke the moratorium).  6879 whales from 1993-2006.
Iceland has a science permit for 60 whales a year.


#52    FLOMBIE

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:35 PM

View PostMyles, on 27 February 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

2006 numbers.
Japan - 866 whales
Icland - 60 whales
Norway - 545 whales
Denmark - 197 whales
St. Vincent and The Grenadines - 1 whale
Korea - 2 whales
Russian Federation - 137 whales
USA - 39 whales

Link


#53    Myles

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:03 PM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 27 February 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Denmark - 197 whales
St. Vincent and The Grenadines - 1 whale
Korea - 2 whales
Russian Federation - 137 whales
USA - 39 whales

Link
Of course we can assume all these numbers are low.


#54    FLOMBIE

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:13 PM

Pretty much. If they continue like this, I doubt it will lead to extinction of whales.


#55    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:08 PM

View PostYamato, on 27 February 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Australia is doing more than any other country.  Let's hope Japan can be stopped by Australia in court.   If Australia wins in court and Japan still can't take a hint you guys should try some naval diplomacy and their game will be up real quick.  Waiting on court proceedings kills a lot of whales.  I just wish you guys would teach these arrogant poachers a lesson this season.

http://www.abc.net.a.../27/3698925.htm
Add to that they've broken international law (refueling in a maritime sanctuary) if it can be proven then it's a hefty fine.
I think the death of a thousand cuts would work on the Whaling industry.

I remember reading about whole huge warehouses full of whalemeat noone wants to buy. That's got to be another "cut" to the industry in Japan.

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#56    Yamato

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:13 AM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 27 February 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Pigs are extraordinary smart as well. But I do not value animals according to their intelligence . Only if they are highly endangered I do see an issue.
When the economics of food production have it that mankind can grow whales on a farm and spare the expense of raising them for decades before slaughtering them for food, the farm animals argument will start to make some sense.   Until that time, they cannot withstand the slaughter, as if we should stand the criminality anyway.

View PostWearer of Hats, on 27 February 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

Add to that they've broken international law (refueling in a maritime sanctuary) if it can be proven then it's a hefty fine.
I think the death of a thousand cuts would work on the Whaling industry.

I remember reading about whole huge warehouses full of whalemeat noone wants to buy. That's got to be another "cut" to the industry in Japan.
Yes the practice has been reduced to Japanese nationalistic pride and little else.  The Japanese government is sinking funds into a bankrupt industry; one of the worst examples of a bailout I've ever seen.  And where they've appropriated funds for the whaling fleet makes them look even worse.  For once I'm happy my own country isn't the worst offender in the world where an issue I care deeply about is concerned.   It will be a joyful day indeed to see a pair of Australian frigates escorting the Japanese fleet out of the Southern Ocean for good.   If you're not my favorite country in the world already you will be then.   A very endearing hats off to Bob Brown too, for putting principle and compassion ahead of national interests and money.   He was needed I think, and his timing couldn't have been better.  I know who my favorite Australian politician is, that's for sure.

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#57    Yamato

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:28 AM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 27 February 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Indeed, humans are greedy. But Japan is a member of the International Whaling Commission, which sets the limits. If Japan wouldn't want to stay inside those limits, they could simply opt out. There are no penalties; it's a voluntary organization.
No, Japan sets its own limits.  1,000+ whales is a self-imposed Japanese quota.   It's contradictory to first think that the limits are set by the IWC and then to say that Japan can opt out, the implication being there are no limits.   There are limits.  The limit is 0.   Zero tolerance.

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#58    FLOMBIE

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:43 AM

Well, that's what you say.


#59    MichaelW

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:45 AM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 27 February 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Does it really surprise anyone that a country who, not so long ago, thought nothing of exterminating entire villages and groups of people (torturing and experimenting with them) and who also execute their own, human citizens, would not have the compassion, morality or sense to stop killing these beautiful creatures? It doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

We should sanction them to high heaven. A one-week embargo - stopping imports and exports and crippling their economy - would solve this problem in around 8 days.

Hello Pot. Kettle here. Guess what? We're black.

Seriously ex, all x are y claims now? That's low, even for you. And remember ex, the British invented the concentration camp.

Edited by MichaelW, 28 February 2013 - 05:47 AM.

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#60    MichaelW

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:49 AM

Honestly, I find it quite amusing that some members are on some sort of moral crusade here supporting a group who have committed acts of piracy on the open seas and is run by a massive egomaniac.

Sea Shepard are a joke. They are an embarrassment to the environmentalist and conservation movement and should be treated accordingly.

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