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The universe


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#1    SkeptcByMindBelievrByHeart

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:29 AM

What if our universe is in a massive humongous enormous closed shoe box??? (Or a box -[attachment=67045:universe_box.jpg]even)

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#2    third_eye

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:35 AM

look first for the manufactured day, then check for the expiry date

Edited by third_eye, 27 February 2013 - 11:36 AM.

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#3    Paranoid Android

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:58 AM

The obvious question then is "what is outside the box"?

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#4    third_eye

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:10 PM

the space that makes the box possible .... the 'anti box'

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#5    Frank Merton

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:46 PM

Einstein suggested that space-time curves positively, which would imply that it is a giant super-sphere not "inside" anything but just itself.  He derived this from the observation that a massive object "warps" the space-time around it, so if the universe itself is massive enough it should do a similar trip on the whole of space-time.

In such a closed super-sphere there is no "outside."  Space and time are a closed system with no boundaries and no outside.

This is difficult for people because we presume space is this Euclidean thing that goes out in straight lines forever -- that parallel lines never intersect (Euclid's seventh axiom, and the one that all through the Middle Ages geometers tried to find a proof for so they could make it a theorem rather than an axiom).

Well, they never succeeded, and we now understand why -- geometry does not have to have Euclid's seventh axiom to work.  You can have other geometries.  These are logically just as rigorous as Euclid, but produce universes very different, including the closed one that Einstein imagined.

(In actual fact we now think the universe has positive but almost Euclidean curvature, so it may well go on forever).


#6    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:50 PM

There are an infinite number of boxes, each containing it's own universe. It is impossible to break out of this system for all is within a box within a box within a box. Professor Farnsworth has shown us this truth......

edit to include this link. Just in case my reference is not so clear to all. Surely not! :)
http://en.wikipedia....nsworth_Parabox

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 27 February 2013 - 04:43 PM.


#7    third_eye

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:19 PM

an immense ultra universe folding over on itself ad infinidum

~edit : unconvincing latinus

Edited by third_eye, 27 February 2013 - 04:19 PM.

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#8    _Only

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:43 PM



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#9    Ogbin

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 05:40 PM

Time can exist without change, but change can not exist without time.

So yes, in a sense we are in a box. When we die we are released from the box. What does the outside of the box look like? Who knows, but it is my hope that Jesus is standing there waiting for me when I am released. I wouldn't want to be or go anywhere else but Heaven.  :innocent:


#10    Quaentum

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:54 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 27 February 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Einstein suggested that space-time curves positively, which would imply that it is a giant super-sphere not "inside" anything but just itself.  He derived this from the observation that a massive object "warps" the space-time around it, so if the universe itself is massive enough it should do a similar trip on the whole of space-time.

In such a closed super-sphere there is no "outside."  Space and time are a closed system with no boundaries and no outside.

This is difficult for people because we presume space is this Euclidean thing that goes out in straight lines forever -- that parallel lines never intersect (Euclid's seventh axiom, and the one that all through the Middle Ages geometers tried to find a proof for so they could make it a theorem rather than an axiom).

Well, they never succeeded, and we now understand why -- geometry does not have to have Euclid's seventh axiom to work.  You can have other geometries.  These are logically just as rigorous as Euclid, but produce universes very different, including the closed one that Einstein imagined.

(In actual fact we now think the universe has positive but almost Euclidean curvature, so it may well go on forever).

Actually if time-space curves then maybe it's doughnut shaped.  That makes the question, what filling is in the middle?

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#11    shrooma

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:06 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 27 February 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:



Actually if time-space curves then maybe it's doughnut shaped.  That makes the question, what filling is in the middle?
.
hopefully, it's custard.
I like custard.

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#12    _Only

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:08 AM

View PostOgbin, on 27 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Time can exist without change, but change can not exist without time.

So yes, in a sense we are in a box. When we die we are released from the box. What does the outside of the box look like? Who knows, but it is my hope that Jesus is standing there waiting for me when I am released. I wouldn't want to be or go anywhere else but Heaven.  :innocent:

Or is the box self created? As in, change can exist without time, but we've just taught ourselves, in this created system of linear time, that change isn't possible unless following our concept of past, present, and future going one way. What if everything that ever happened, is happening, and will happen all happens at once? Then change very well exists without any need for time. But we can't really understand a concept, because we've taught ourselves otherwise.

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#13    Frank Merton

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:23 AM

Well of course it could be a Klein Bottle.

http://www.kleinbott...lein_bottle.htm

Edited by Frank Merton, 28 February 2013 - 05:24 AM.


#14    Lion6969

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:51 PM

What is outside the box is beyond the scope of science and its limitations. This is what we call the metaphysical'





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