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Troubling Doctrines For Christians


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#46    danielost

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:34 PM

View PostSundew, on 28 February 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:


The slavery n the bible, more closely reflects indenturd servants here the usa.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#47    danielost

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 02:01 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 02 March 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

The role women play is pretty non existent or it makes women look bad, the feminine aspect of the godhead has been completely stripped and the right gods people have to pillage other lands (rape and kill and steal) the massive attack on other belief systems

That is the docrine that bothers me for the most part, then there is the religious attitudes.. that is also disturbing

With a few exceptions gods people were ordered not toi take anything from the defeated cities.  One of the reasons David hd to raid the temple for food.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#48    Sundew

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 03:33 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 01 March 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

Sundew, that indeed was very helpful. Most of your points tracked with my own understanding of those issues. One could start a new thread on whether or not Hell makes moral sense when good people ostensibly go there. Your explanation mirrored traditional Christian teachings on the subject, though. I liked what you said about the ancient Middle East in that certain events, that seem very bizarre in our era, make more sense in the context of those places and times. We often make the same kinds of mistakes when judging other chapters of the historical record through the lens of America in 2013. We may part company on slavery, as it's not severely criticized in the New Testament. I realize that much of that comes from the culture of that era, but the lack of criticism is still troubling.

Thanks! Yeah the issue of "good" people going to hell (and then for all eternity) is very troubling. My understanding is that God, being perfect, cannot exist in the presence of sin. Sin I believe was an ancient archery term meaning to "miss the mark" and we as human beings cannot live up to God's perfection in our fallen state and so we miss the mark. God gave the world His solution to the problem in that God Himself would be the perfect sacrifice for sins, the perfect sacrificed for the imperfect. The Scripture say that Christ took on our sins and in return imputed to us His righteousness, so that when God looks at us, he does not see our sins but instead sees the righteousness of Christ. It is pretty obvious from reading the Scriptures that God only made a single way, on His own terms that He will accept, which seems pretty clear form John 14:6:

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

This isn't popular and certainly isn't politically correct, but that is what the text says.

As to good people, I just lost a relative and attended his funeral yesterday, by all human accounts he was a "good" man and I liked him a lot, however that has little to do with his eternal state. That hinges on his acceptance or rejection of the Sacrifice God provided.


Concerning slavery, that sadly has been the lot of humanity for most of history. Think about the fact that is was standard operating procedure for a conquering nation to enslave a subjugated one. At the time the New Testament was written Rome had conquered most of the know world, and the Jews were virtual slaves to Rome, at least as far as taxation, and carrying out their own laws. For instance, when the Pharisees wanted to put Jesus to death they appealed to their Roman overlords to carry out the sentence because they said under Rome "they were not allowed to put anyone to death", very hypocritical to say the least since not long before they were ready to stone the woman caught in adultery (which was probably an illegal act under Roman law).

Slavery is troubling, all I can say is the Bible depicts man, and history, "warts and all". It is not some idealistic collections of writings showing how great man is, or the jews were, or the early Christians were, it is more a mirror on the human condition. And that ain't always pretty......

One last thing, slavery is not always about whips and chains and being taken from one's homeland. I recently heard that prior to the Civil War in America one could be considered a slave if one owed more than 25% of his income to the government. Think about that! If you were to add up all the various taxes: Federal and State income, capital gains, sales, school, property, gasoline, cigarette, alcohol, payroll, cable taxes, phone taxes, imbedded taxes, etc, etc, etc., most people are paying well over 50% of every dollar they earn in taxes to the government and in some cases near 75%. By that definition we are ALL economic slaves and it's not looking like it will get better. True you don't have to have phone and cable, etc., but most of us do and most may not realize the hidden tax burdens of these luxuries.

So how does it feel to be a fellow slave!


#49    danielost

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 03:43 PM

It isn't god that be in the presence of evil.  It is the other way round.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#50    SpiritWriter

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 06:27 PM

View PostSundew, on 03 March 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:



6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

This isn't popular and certainly isn't politically correct, but that is what the text says.



Is it possible that this is a principle, is the truth, irregardless of which text its written in? Those who came through christ and now are in communion with god and can see the assocoation between God and Christ, that indeed this figure is the carnate of god and representation of ourselves as well, to them it is clear that this Jesus is the way the truth and the life. There are other variables that make this hard for some people to accept. 1. The spirit of the lord moves on its own accord like the wind choosing who to reveal this too, that is important to consider 2. Hearts are hardened to Christianity because of its authoritative stance and its hate practices and because of this have built a even higher defence around thier heart from the likes of God, 3. In order for a person to come to god they will have to face thier own demons and this can be a scary place and also a place of deep denial

There is a balance between political correctness and truth.

Chist is the eye opener, the one who was resurrected on our behalf and so has the ability to resurrect. Any person who is in relation with god understands this principle regardless to the fact if they are christian or not. (If they dont they should, and it would be clear to me that if any would say, any way but Jesus is the right way, that they have a lot more soul work to do.) There is power in the name of Jesus and indeed he is the Christ. I have posed this question before and am not adverse to the idea that Jesus (although very real) is a figure for this Christ, but it is the priciple that is important here and not our adversities to religion and text. I have asked the question: are there other ways to God? I dont think its about putting a face on it or arguing about certain scriptures or what they mean, and for me it is definately not about being confined to one particular text... but acknowedging that God does love and value each and everyone of us to redeem us back to himself, not only because he cares about our needs and wants whats best for us but because he wants to be in communion with us, he wants to watch and help us grow and in reality he needs us! We are an extention of him' we are apart of thw universal body, and as long as we are sick the whole world is sick, being adjoined back to god is like being on the antibiotic team, healing yourself and therefore healing the world.

That being said. There are parts of the bible that make me mad, not because I cant accept that the whole world is sick and so therefore is every institution.. I get that but the problem is that these things have become an issue in seperating us further from god and furthervfrom each other because most christians stick by the dogma that the bible is the final authority, this not only limits Christians in understanding who God really is but causes even the concept and reality of divinity to be something that is argued about rather than experienced.

If anybody would listen to little old me today I would tell them there is truth and esoteric knowledge in the teachings of the bible if you contemplate and apply its teaching while in the spirit (this is a state of submission, not in a negative way but in a way of spiritual alertness, a higher state of your own self, a spiritually activated state) and that it is true Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life.

For Christians I would quote this scripture:

1Cor. 8:3
If any man love God he is known by God.

To me this speaks of ANYONE regardless of religion.

PEACE

Edited by SpiritWriter, 03 March 2013 - 06:31 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#51    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 07:48 PM

View PostParanoid Android, on 03 March 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

I'm saying that Jesus intentionally spoke in order that certain people wouldn't understand him. If he wanted everyone saved he wouldn't have used parables. Those who wanted to understand Jesus would have to enquire further, but he knew that many wouldn't.  Everything is up for individual interpretation, but not all interpretations are valid.  Needless to say that after reading the New Testament, the teachings of Paul and Jesus have never clashed for me, they complement each other. Not having any reason not to accept Paul, I choose to believe that his teachings are valid for spiritual growth and understanding God.
I'm sorry? You really think Jesus did not want everyone "saved"? That he really thought that everyone was already predestined for being "Saved" or for "destruction"? And is that what you chose to interpret from it?
I'm afraid all I can say is merciful heavens above.  And you can decide for yourself whether I'm being allegorical there. :no: Do you remember that little speech he gave called the Sermon on the Mount? Now that was only intended for the Select Few, was it? He didn't actually mean for all of Humanity to listen to his message? When he said "You are the salt of the earth" etc, what he meant was "only the Elite who have been selected by God are the Salt of the Earth, and it's only them i'm talking to, and I'm sorry, but God has just decided to consign the rest of you to destruction"?

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#52    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 08:01 PM

* Another point: Do you not think that sticking to this dogma might actually be counterproductive to promote the cause and the image of Christianity? I mean, if this dogma was true, it would mean that there wouldn't be any point in being Christian, would there, and accepting Jesus and so on, if it had already been decided whether one was scheduled for Heaven or for Destruction? I mean, on basic philosophical terms. Not to mention that, if people are still going to insist, even now, on this dogma, and even more than that if they're going to insist that that's what Jesus himself believed, then how do they think that it is possibly going to attract people to Christianity? Or is that actually what people want; is that why they insist on clinging to this idea, because the people who do believe it believe that they're among those who God has predordained to join him in Bliss, so they can feel smug towards all the plebs?

i can tell you, the more I look through this and similar threads, the more and more sympathic I get towards Dawkins.

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#53    Paranoid Android

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:40 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 03 March 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

I'm sorry? You really think Jesus did not want everyone "saved"? That he really thought that everyone was already predestined for being "Saved" or for "destruction"? And is that what you chose to interpret from it?
I'm afraid all I can say is merciful heavens above.  And you can decide for yourself whether I'm being allegorical there. :no: Do you remember that little speech he gave called the Sermon on the Mount? Now that was only intended for the Select Few, was it? He didn't actually mean for all of Humanity to listen to his message? When he said "You are the salt of the earth" etc, what he meant was "only the Elite who have been selected by God are the Salt of the Earth, and it's only them i'm talking to, and I'm sorry, but God has just decided to consign the rest of you to destruction"?
Everyone, all of humanity even, can listen to his message.  Not all of them will accept it though, and Jesus knows this.  He deliberately makes it so.  This would have been more true during the time Jesus was alive, since he spoke to the crowds in parables and most of them went away nodding to themselves and going "hmmm", but then Jesus interpreted the parables for his disciples in private (and presumably any in the crowd who were curious enough to enquire further would have approached him to become a disciple).  Today we have the Gospels in which we need only read about the parable and then the interpretation of the parable is usually right there in the next few sentences.

In any case, the Sermon on the Mount was for believers only.  It wasn't a universal message for all of humankind.  "You are the salt of the earth" was written to Jesus' followers, not to everyone and everyone.


View PostLord Vetinari, on 03 March 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

* Another point: Do you not think that sticking to this dogma might actually be counterproductive to promote the cause and the image of Christianity? I mean, if this dogma was true, it would mean that there wouldn't be any point in being Christian, would there, and accepting Jesus and so on, if it had already been decided whether one was scheduled for Heaven or for Destruction? I mean, on basic philosophical terms. Not to mention that, if people are still going to insist, even now, on this dogma, and even more than that if they're going to insist that that's what Jesus himself believed, then how do they think that it is possibly going to attract people to Christianity? Or is that actually what people want; is that why they insist on clinging to this idea, because the people who do believe it believe that they're among those who God has predordained to join him in Bliss, so they can feel smug towards all the plebs?

i can tell you, the more I look through this and similar threads, the more and more sympathic I get towards Dawkins.
I don't believe this is counter-productive to Christianity.  First, it is illogical to say that there is no point in being Christian.  This is often the Arminian counter-argument to Calvin (Arminianism is the argument for free will).  The adherents of Arminianism say that there is no point in evangelism if Calvinism is correct.  They say that they don't need to preach the gospel, and don't even need to live a Christian life, because at the end of the day God has called the Elect already and therefore God will save those already saved.

This is a straw-man.  No Calvinist I know would state their case in such a manner.  Being a Calvinist myself, I'd respond by saying that there certainly is a point in evangelism - how do you know that God hasn't predestined you to be the one through whom someone else is destined to be saved?  Of course, you may not be big on evangelism, so this first part of the answer may not apply to you.  The other part of the straw man, however, that you don't need to even live a Christian life, is relevant.  Again, no Calvinist would ever use this argument.  No one knows whether they are saved or not, only God does.  In the meantime, we have perhaps the illusion of free will - our choices are seemingly free (certain Calvinist theologians have dubbed this "real will" as opposed to "free will").  Thus if we are Christian we should strive with our real will to live for God, otherwise we may prove through our actions that we are not part of the Elect (the argument that we don't even need to act Christian and still be saved is predicated on the unfounded assumption that you are already saved no matter what you do).

This is the pure Calvinist response.  I, however, am not a pure Calvinist.  I believe that somehow, despite it being a contradiction in the physical realm, free will and predestination can co-exist in God's spiritual existence.  That we are predestined and therefore we act freely, and we act with our free will and were therefore predestined to do so.  Both statements equally true.  Whatever the case, though, not living a Christian existence would seem to be proof that one is not among the Elect, unless that person were to change their ways to a more Christ-like existence.  

On a final note, you again bring up smugness, that this is what believers think in order to "feel smug towards the plebs".  This is the second time you've mentioned it, and the first time I told you it was a load of crud, even though I can see why you would say it.  You ignored my response, and chose to repeat it again.  Are you intentionally misrepresenting my position to make it look as absurd as possible?  This is NOT about smugness.  The entire idea of feeling "smug" hinges on the idea that "I am saved and you are not".  I don't know what the future holds.  I don't know whether you or anyone else is going to turn to Christ and become part of the Elect?  I don't know whether I may one day fall away in the future and realise that I never was part of the Elect.  By being "smug towards the plebs" (feelings of superiority towards the unsaved) then what I am really saying is "I know better than God, I Judge with my personally flawed humanity that person x is unable to be saved.  They are NOT part of the Elect, and never will be, thus I can feel better about myself because of them".  That is a total misrepresentation of everything I believe, and certainly a misrepresentation of what the majority of Calvinists believe (naturally I cannot speak for all Calvinists in this matter).

~ Regards, PA

Edited by Paranoid Android, 04 March 2013 - 05:52 AM.

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#54    danielost

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:05 AM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 03 March 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:



Is it possible that this is a principle, is the truth, irregardless of which text its written in? Those who came through christ and now are in communion with god and can see the assocoation between God and Christ, that indeed this figure is the carnate of god and representation of ourselves as well, to them it is clear that this Jesus is the way the truth and the life. There are other variables that make this hard for some people to accept. 1. The spirit of the lord moves on its own accord like the wind choosing who to reveal this too, that is important to consider 2. Hearts are hardened to Christianity because of its authoritative stance and its hate practices and because of this have built a even higher defence around thier heart from the likes of God, 3. In order for a person to come to god they will have to face thier own demons and this can be a scary place and also a place of deep denial

There is a balance between political correctness and truth.

Chist is the eye opener, the one who was resurrected on our behalf and so has the ability to resurrect. Any person who is in relation with god understands this principle regardless to the fact if they are christian or not. (If they dont they should, and it would be clear to me that if any would say, any way but Jesus is the right way, that they have a lot more soul work to do.) There is power in the name of Jesus and indeed he is the Christ. I have posed this question before and am not adverse to the idea that Jesus (although very real) is a figure for this Christ, but it is the priciple that is important here and not our adversities to religion and text. I have asked the question: are there other ways to God? I dont think its about putting a face on it or arguing about certain scriptures or what they mean, and for me it is definately not about being confined to one particular text... but acknowedging that God does love and value each and everyone of us to redeem us back to himself, not only because he cares about our needs and wants whats best for us but because he wants to be in communion with us, he wants to watch and help us grow and in reality he needs us! We are an extention of him' we are apart of thw universal body, and as long as we are sick the whole world is sick, being adjoined back to god is like being on the antibiotic team, healing yourself and therefore healing the world.

That being said. There are parts of the bible that make me mad, not because I cant accept that the whole world is sick and so therefore is every institution.. I get that but the problem is that these things have become an issue in seperating us further from god and furthervfrom each other because most christians stick by the dogma that the bible is the final authority, this not only limits Christians in understanding who God really is but causes even the concept and reality of divinity to be something that is argued about rather than experienced.

If anybody would listen to little old me today I would tell them there is truth and esoteric knowledge in the teachings of the bible if you contemplate and apply its teaching while in the spirit (this is a state of submission, not in a negative way but in a way of spiritual alertness, a higher state of your own self, a spiritually activated state) and that it is true Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life.

For Christians I would quote this scripture:

1Cor. 8:3
If any man love God he is known by God.

To me this speaks of ANYONE regardless of religion.

PEACE

Yes, there are other ways to god.  But christ is a hand rail to help guide you to god.  Nothing is out of our reach.  Christ told us to b perfect s god is in heavon.  He wouldn't have said that if it was impossible.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#55    IamsSon

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:02 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 28 February 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

This is for both Christians and former Christians. What doctrines trouble you the most? You could expand your answers to troubling scriptures, as well. Have you solved problems caused by these troubling doctrines, scriptures, teachings, etc.?

My List Includes These:
.Eternal Hell is excessive, and why would souls be predestined to go there?
.The unforgivable sin reference terrified me when I was a kid, and it seems contradictory and out of place.
.The tone of the New Testament is much different than the tone of the Old Testament.
.Why was slavery not criticized?
Both PA and Sundew gave answers very similar to what I would have given to these.

My list includes:
  • Predestination/Free will: After much discussion with fellow Christians both on UM (I'm looking at you PA) and off, I have come to the conclusion that this topic is much more complicated than "either/or" and that the reality may be much closer to a "this, that, and the other."  Although the phrase "free will" does not appear in Scripture, the concept of choice and the importance of making a choice to follow God is found in both the Old and New Testaments, as is the concept of God setting things up and God deciding to do or not do, to allow or not allow, so somehow choice is important although God's will is done.
  • Letting God dispense justice:  I'm an American of Mexican descent.  It is a deeply ingrained value that you take care of your family, especially the women in your family, and if anyone hurts them, it is your duty to hurt them back.  As a Christian I am called to love everyone, and I also know that God will dispense justice, but I am fairly sure, if my wife, daughter, or mother are harmed, I will probably only "remember" that I am supposed to love this person and let God deal with them after I've watched them being poured into a stretcher.
  • "Being still" and acting:  We are called to prayerfully "be still" and let God work, but we are also called to do the work He called us to do.  I sometimes struggle with knowing when to be still and when to act.
  • Evangelizing:  Many people, and many churches see Jesus's command in Matthew 28:18-20 as permission to harass non-believers.  However, the passage clearly says we should make disciples.  The process of making disciples requires establishing a relationship, not just walking up to strangers and telling them they are eternally lost without Jesus.


"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#56    danielost

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:18 PM

Predestination=the path the history must take,

Free will=you can do what ever you want to do.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#57    IamsSon

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:27 PM

View Postdanielost, on 04 March 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Predestination=the path the history must take,

Free will=you can do what ever you want to do.
Yeah, but...

God would not want any to perish, so obviously He allows people to choose.  But...

God basically told Job the universe exists to accomplish His will, so what He will is what is going to happen.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#58    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:21 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 03 March 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

I'm afraid I don't take every single thing that's said in every single part of the Bible, including the OT and the many opinions of Paul, literally. I prefer to look at what Jesus said about things. All the "salvation or damnation" was all invented by "Christian thinkers" like Paul & Augustine and all that lot, very often to completely twist and pervert the words of the one they claimed to follow, for their own purposes. That purpose mainly being to get power for themselves and control over the people. It was often little short of a crime. And all this argument about "an omniscisent God" knowing what choice people would make is really anthropomorphising, isn't it. It gives the impression of how as sitting up there, on his throne in the clouds, with huge filing cabinets full of dossiers on every single person who's ever lived, and a record of whether they've been naughty or nice.

Not really. I don't picture God as Santa Claus. I view Him as a spiritual entity, not an anthropomorphic character that resembles Zeus or Jupiter. Such an entity knows what decisions His creation will or won't make in their lives. That's my entire point. That's why it's hard not to be freaked out by predestination. It goes back to asking why some people are ostensibly sentenced to Hell at birth. Of course, this whole question seems moot to non-believers.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#59    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:26 AM

View Postdanielost, on 03 March 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

The slavery n the bible, more closely reflects indenturd servants here the usa.

It's not even close unless you're talking about how many "servants" were really treated in colonial America. They were treated more like Kunta Kinte than Jeeves, the butler.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#60    Detective Mystery 2014

Detective Mystery 2014

    Poltergeist

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:43 AM

View PostIamsSon, on 04 March 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

Both PA and Sundew gave answers very similar to what I would have given to these.

My list includes:
  • Predestination/Free will: After much discussion with fellow Christians both on UM (I'm looking at you PA) and off, I have come to the conclusion that this topic is much more complicated than "either/or" and that the reality may be much closer to a "this, that, and the other."  Although the phrase "free will" does not appear in Scripture, the concept of choice and the importance of making a choice to follow God is found in both the Old and New Testaments, as is the concept of God setting things up and God deciding to do or not do, to allow or not allow, so somehow choice is important although God's will is done.
  • Letting God dispense justice:  I'm an American of Mexican descent.  It is a deeply ingrained value that you take care of your family, especially the women in your family, and if anyone hurts them, it is your duty to hurt them back.  As a Christian I am called to love everyone, and I also know that God will dispense justice, but I am fairly sure, if my wife, daughter, or mother are harmed, I will probably only "remember" that I am supposed to love this person and let God deal with them after I've watched them being poured into a stretcher.
  • "Being still" and acting:  We are called to prayerfully "be still" and let God work, but we are also called to do the work He called us to do.  I sometimes struggle with knowing when to be still and when to act.
  • Evangelizing:  Many people, and many churches see Jesus's command in Matthew 28:18-20 as permission to harass non-believers.  However, the passage clearly says we should make disciples.  The process of making disciples requires establishing a relationship, not just walking up to strangers and telling them they are eternally lost without Jesus.

Your first comment mirrors many experts on the subject. It's mature and reasonable. It makes some kind of sense. Still, it avoids the question. I don't say that in a disrespectful or provocative sense. I understand why it's not possible to square some conundrums. I'm at the point where I realize that we often can't answer troubling questions. We have to rely on faith when it comes to certain ideas. It's more of a realization and recognition than a resignation. It's a bit humbling, but it sometimes helps to be honest with oneself about some doctrines. Like the man says, we see through a glass darkly. Fortunately, you, as well as many others, have the faith to keep your "sight" intact.

There is one reality with billions of versions.




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