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Why is the bible not to be questioned?


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#136    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:43 PM

View PostMag357, on 12 March 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

Here's something I've pondered God helps liberate the Israelites from the Egyptians. He sends them to the promise land.
But then he tells them to take the city of Jericho and killing its inhabitants. It seems that the Israelites are no better then
there former captors
.

Worse, way, way worse.

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason that “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous execution, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God."
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#137    Hawkin

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:41 PM

I see in the bible when it talks about the characters, there is a lot of drama to the story of their lives.
Almost like a Hollywood Movie. As I've said before, I do believe the characters and events did happen
to a degree, but the stories of the characters was embellished.

To give an example: If you've ever seen the movie" Hachi: A Dog's Tale" with Richard Gere, It tells about
a dog that keeps going to a train station for years and awaits the return of his master who has died,  
The movie was made in modern times in america but the actual story took place in Japan before WWII.

It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve. But to much skepticism
can make you narrow minded to all possibilities no matter how unconventional.

#138    Frank Merton

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 01:45 PM

Sometimes Hollywood stories have a kernel in something that really happened, sometimes they don't.  The same applies to the Bible.


#139    Copen

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:11 PM

i am glad you understand that spiritual education does not open the understanding of the Bible. That that comes with an intentional act from God. You theme is: Why not question the Bible? But you comments seemed to me to be: why use the Bible if you have studied it for 10 years, that the Spirit of God can be so entrenched in your being that you don't have to rely on the Bible. (Have I got that right?)

God does not contradict Himself. Jesus is the Word made manifest. If where, you say, the Spirit of God is directing you and it is not in agreement with the Word then you are being mislead.

The Bible is not only God's dictation preserved by chosen Jewish subscribers. God promises that it is HE who will keep it. So, look at the many translations. Some of which contradict each other. Learn the history and you will notice which versions have God's endorsements. A scarlet trail of blood illuminates the true path accompanied by world wide revivals, which point to the KJV.  No one has or would died for the Living (lying) Bible, the New American Standard, the New International Version, the Catholic version etc. But much blood has been shed for the KJV. Only God given strength would make man able to do that.
God bless

Edited by Copen, 23 March 2013 - 03:11 PM.


#140    Frank Merton

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

I take it the KJV, then, is God's translation because He likes to see a lot of blood.


#141    and then

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:01 PM

View Postshadowhive, on 04 March 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

I think a god that is 'loving' would not destroy a city with every man, woman and child inside it. Yes that is upsetting to me. But that's because I, like any rational person, would find the deaths of a large amount of people to be a tragedy. It's something terrible, to be abhorred. A loving entity does not go on a killing spree. Somehow, though, a believer excuses it and finds ways around it. Like you just did.

We live in a human society, not a christian one. Holding christian doctrines so highly is dangerous because it's very easy to slip into a christian dictatorshiop and the next thing you know all non-believers are persecuted or killed because they are not 'righteous' enough. Or anyone that does anything against the bible gets persecuted.

Religion should be a completely personal choice. As such it has no place controlling any society, no matter how 'righteous' the reasoning.
But there is no indication of anything like this in the west.   If anything, the stance of the public against Christianity is growing, not the opposite - so there is no need to worry over it.  I believe there WILL be a dictatorship over all the world in the future and it will first be by man - THEN it will be by God Himself.  Once you have a chance to compare the two I think you will be happy of the one God provides.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#142    Copen

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:18 PM

View PostJ. K., on 12 March 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Who are you identifying as "the preacher who brings this Good News" and "the one who births you and re-creates you"?
The false teaching of the "free will doctrine" church says the Good News must come first. Then the spiritual birth follows based upon if the person who heard the Good News accepts, believes, repents, confesses, and is baptized. Upon accepting, then the person experiences the "born again", which makes man's will stronger than God's and ultimately makes man a mini-savior, saving himself by performing the above listed works. (Believing is a thought process. Ask anyone who is mentally evaluating a situation for a decision and they will use some form of the word "worked." "I worked on the problem all night and couldn't sleep." A thinking process is a work unless it pertains to the "born again."

Eternal salvation is "not of works lest anyone boast." Haven't you ever heard Christians boast how smart they were, or how lucky they were that they worked that through. They don't realize they are boasting and taking some of the glory away from what Jesus did; but they are and it it contrary to the way the scriptures say it happens.

Eternal salvation is 100% by the shed blood of the spotless Lamb. Add any work or merit on man's part and His blood is diluted.
A person is birthed first by God's election and predestination in a specific call by your name. Just as a physical birth is completely in the hands of others and you had nothing to do with when, where, or how - - - - - - your spiritual birth is completely in the hands of God.

The Holy Spirit blows on whom HE WILLETH. You can hear the sound of it and see the effects of it around you; but you cannot decide to call the wind up and it obey. Of such is the born again. AFTER THE WIND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS BLOWN ON YOU AND you have been given spiritual life you can then "see" or understand the Kingdom of God on earth and decide whether or not to enter into the government of that kingdom. If that new child decides not to enter into the Kingdom of God on earth, he misses out on many blessings while living on earth. He needs the Good News to tell him/her about the blessings Jesus gives His obedient children.

The preacher with Good News feeds the lambs and sheep. He doesn't turn them into lambs and sheep. "It is the work of God that you believe." I Cor. 2:14 says the natural man cannot receive nor even know in order to receive the spiritual things of God. They are foolishness to him. God has to first change the man into a spiritual man, then he can know and receive spiritual things of God.
Amen
God bless us all is my prayer.

Edited by Copen, 23 March 2013 - 06:19 PM.


#143    Copen

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:25 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 23 March 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

I take it the KJV, then, is God's translation because He likes to see a lot of blood.
Yep - blood cleanses.
God bless


#144    Mikko-kun

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:25 PM

Can you be a christian and still make your own way, leaving bible alone? Is bible the only way?
As far as I understand, bible is not god, but something that describes god. As such, it is like a letter, a word, a tool of communication (learning). Bible is to learn of god.
If so, why wouldn't it be possible to learn of god from the other ways too? The way of learning that requires you to just accept what you read without consent is a realistic sort of way to learn, whereas the way of learning in which you reach beyond what's within your grasp, is a more intuitive "hunch" way of learning. I believe the latter should not be ignored when learning of god, even if it may be a more subjective way. And ultimately, all that we learn comes from somewhere other than directly from god itself in that certain miracle-making sense.

Why wouldn't other religious texts, like Koran or the Vedic scrolls or the indian epochs or Taoist books or whatnot, also serve christians? Apart from the reason that "I am the one and only god, thou shalt have no other gods."? What prevents you from studying them to gain insight to whatever link there is to god in this plane? Studying doesn't have to mean absorbing others' ideas and ideals, it can be "taking the ideas in with healthy questioning and putting them to context with your world-view", fitting them in to your view. I believe that if there is a god, that god can have everything put together like pieces of a puzzle.

I've been born again 31,8,2014 approximately 21:35 local time. A moment free of clutter in the mind, emancipating myself like an escapist, allowing myself to breathe life in a stronger, less physical level... though it does resonate to physical world. It's the oomph.

#145    Copen

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:53 PM

View PostMikko-kun, on 23 March 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Can you be a christian and still make your own way, leaving bible alone? Is bible the only way?
As far as I understand, bible is not god, but something that describes god. As such, it is like a letter, a word, a tool of communication (learning). Bible is to learn of god.
If so, why wouldn't it be possible to learn of god from the other ways too? The way of learning that requires you to just accept what you read without consent is a realistic sort of way to learn, whereas the way of learning in which you reach beyond what's within your grasp, is a more intuitive "hunch" way of learning. I believe the latter should not be ignored when learning of god, even if it may be a more subjective way. And ultimately, all that we learn comes from somewhere other than directly from god itself in that certain miracle-making sense.

Why wouldn't other religious texts, like Koran or the Vedic scrolls or the indian epochs or Taoist books or whatnot, also serve christians? Apart from the reason that "I am the one and only god, thou shalt have no other gods."? What prevents you from studying them to gain insight to whatever link there is to god in this plane? Studying doesn't have to mean absorbing others' ideas and ideals, it can be "taking the ideas in with healthy questioning and putting them to context with your world-view", fitting them in to your view. I believe that if there is a god, that god can have everything put together like pieces of a puzzle.
The Bible is not a tool to learn about God. In the beginning was Word (capitalized - making it a proper name). Word was manifested in Jesus with God the Father in Heaven. The verbal word breathed from the mouth of God created things in six days. Buda can't do that by merely speaking it into existence. The Word dictated to chosen prophets over a 4,000 year period of time. (It is impossible for that many people to write over a 4,000 strand of time on one subject without contracting previous prophets or elevating themselves.) There are no contradictions in the Bible because God dictated it and He promised that He would keep it. Both, (non existing contradictions and preserving) are impossibilities left in the strength of humans. And the Bible shows man over and over not in a flattering light but in need of God.

The Word says in the Ten Commandments that He, God, is a jealous God. And to have no other God before Him. Therefore, you will not learn about the true God from the Koran, (which has not always existed like the Bible has), or from any other source. Even man's intuition can mislead oneself. If intuition was all you need, then God didn't need to leave His word with us at all.

Prayer to God to open the scriptures for your understanding will make all the difference.
God bless us all is my prayer.


#146    Mikko-kun

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:36 PM

View PostCopen, on 23 March 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

Prayer to God to open the scriptures for your understanding will make all the difference.

That why I'm asking, we're on the same page here at least. I just keep asking myself, why not fill the gap over which you take a leap of faith with something else than what's in the bible? If everything originates from god, isn't taking it from anywhere just as good? I can understand the "created from Word" thing, say "bam" and they go "bam". But to reach a more complete understanding of what's the process or bridge or something between that and this worldly realm, wouldn't it be just benefical to expand the horizon with both your own hunch and alternative points of view that have a good ring to them for you? As in maybe using them as ultimately sacrificiable stepstones in the way to a more complete understanding.

I just ask all this, because when you say god created all with Word, you basically take a big leap of faith in believing that. Not saying your belief is right or wrong, that's not the point, but the point is, can't you reach that belief or view in any other way? And... how do you know if you dont try?

I've been born again 31,8,2014 approximately 21:35 local time. A moment free of clutter in the mind, emancipating myself like an escapist, allowing myself to breathe life in a stronger, less physical level... though it does resonate to physical world. It's the oomph.

#147    ambelamba

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:29 AM

How many denominations are out there? God must be a real prankster.

They came with a Bible and their religion. stole our land, crushed our spirit, and now they tell us we should be thankful to the Lord for being saved.

-Chief Pontiac (1718-1769)

#148    IamsSon

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:04 AM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 25 March 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

How many denominations are out there? God must be a real prankster.
No, it's just that humans are incredibly self-centered.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#149    flbrnt

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:40 AM

Superstition. EVERYTHING should be questioned. How else are you to learn. Someone who says not to question is just wanting to control you.


#150    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:51 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 04 March 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

For the most part God does not use an audible voice but rather intuition.. this is my experience at least. It's the voice inside of us that all of us hear if we choose to listen to it and as we do so it becomes more spiritual and clear... to me this leads to great revelation but the process can be hindered if there is the constraint of outside interferance, this is how I see it but this frightens many, which is the reason for the post. I want to know why people are convinced the bible is more of the word of god than we as individuals are capable of hearing. If the saints of old were capable of creating holy inspired text why can't we tap into that same power?
Hi SpiritWriter,

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."  John 7:38

In other metaphysical/spiritual teaching, the Navel Chakra is the space to make things happen. It is where the "mind" resides. It is also the center of balance. I question, however, the existence of the Kundalini, even though I was a Kundalini Yoga "teacher." I'm inclined to say that the body is a receptor of that outside "otherworldly" force that I used to call "Flow," and we, my fellow teachers and I, actually believed that it's the Holy Spirit, Itself. Real meditation teachers are conduits, nothing more, and actually, they have to get out of the way for this "power" to do its healing. Once a teacher starts to "own" the process, that's the moment when it gets corrupted and lessened.

It is interesting to me when I read the Bible because I see quite a bit of metaphysical undertones. Then again, Christianity deals with the spirit, in the now, not tomorrow or someday in some tragic future.


"Joshua told the people, 'Consecrate yourselves, for tomorrow the LORD will do amazing things among you.'" Joshua 3:5

"to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word"  Ephesians 5:26


"Word." That "Flow" has a frequency, or hum. Gifted people are able to hear it.

Just sharing.

Peace.

Edited by braveone2u, 05 April 2013 - 11:11 PM.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??




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