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Why is the bible not to be questioned?


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#151    libstaK

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:18 AM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 04 March 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

But there haven't been many answers to the OP, only one so far out of 38 responses... there is a lack of Christian opinion on this website guys... I know your out there, please don't be quiet. Your opinion matters! We are all in this together. I am serious I really want to know why people put more weight on the bible then anything else. Is this a spiritual truth you have learned to trust over the years or is it because you've always been taught this way? Or some other reason?
Hi SpiritWriter.  What I find interesting about the bible is this.

- The Old Testament, for general speaking purposes provided continuous and revelatory doctrine for a period of approx 4000 years.  AKA: over that period new revelation and doctrine/stories/parables/history kept being provided and added to the overall story of God's relationship to man.

- The New Testament then came along and clarified much of the Old Testament doctrine as well as - wait for it - SUPERCEDED the eye for an eye old testament doctrine with the credo of forgiveness and love of enemies instead.  The bible was very much questioned by Jesus and the revelation of the new testament was that Love trumps all sin.

- Then for the next two thousand years - nothing, nada, added or detracted.  Why? Where did all the experience of divine relationship go?  Is there really no more to be revealed?  I beg to differ, the state of the world suggests that our relationship with God has both evolved and devolved, all such experiences were discussed in Old Testament history but not at all after JC.

Personally, as a christian, I think it is imperative to question the bible in all it's glorious and gory detail.  Blindly believing words on paper is a dangerous game, no matter how they are portrayed or what divine inspiration is attributed to them.  We can say that so easily, "This is the word of God", "That is God's Will" et al.  Costs nothing but the time to put it on paper for anyone, now or in the past.

So why be a christian at all?  The question needs to be asked before the answer is given - by each seeking soul and inspiration, epithany and revelation are not dead experiences of history but available to all seekers, for the past two thousand years right up to now.  In today's multifaceted and complex paradigm to say more is simply pointless, today the personal journey and experience of gaining insight is all that stands between value in the good book and discarding it altogether.

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If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

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#152    Asadora

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:22 AM

In regards to the OP, I would say that perhaps one reason is that the Bible is seen as something tangible which often encourages those to perceive it so highly. The Bible represents, the reader chooses to believe it or not. That is simply how I would view it.

And in regards to this current page (10), I will say that other than religious beliefs and actions done based on those religious beliefs, that we are all still Human and whatever it is that compels or invokes our intuitions it is simply -that- we could very well possibly be trying to satisfy.

I have a very open mind, I assure you! However, if I started to hear another voice inside my head that didn't sound like my own, I'd be reaching for my tinfoil hat, other than for religious material.

(* This post is not meant to flame or to offend anyone. I simply speak from my own thought experiences and fully understand that we are all different and everyone can believe however they wish, for it is our natural right to have that Free Will*)

Great Thread :tu:

Kind Regards ;)

"From time to time there appear on the face of the earth men of rare and consummate excellence, who dazzle us by their virtue, and whose outstanding qualities shed a stupendous light. Like those extraordinary stars of whose origins we are ignorant, and of whose fate, once they have vanished, we know even less, such men have neither forebears nor descendants: they are the whole of their race."  -- Jean de la Bruyere 1645-1696.

#153    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 07:27 AM

View PostCopen, on 23 March 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:



The Bible is not only God's dictation preserved by chosen Jewish subscribers. God promises that it is HE who will keep it. So, look at the many translations. Some of which contradict each other. Learn the history and you will notice which versions have God's endorsements. A scarlet trail of blood illuminates the true path accompanied by world wide revivals, which point to the KJV.  No one has or would died for the Living (lying) Bible, the New American Standard, the New International Version, the Catholic version etc. But much blood has been shed for the KJV. Only God given strength would make man able to do that.
God bless
*eyebrow* The KJV was published in 1611; that was a good 60 years or so after the Reformation and all the blood spilling that went with that, and several centuries after the Crusades, and the various Inquisitions had all been going for a long time before then.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


:cat:


#154    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 08:13 AM

View PostCopen, on 23 March 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Yep - blood cleanses.
God bless
What a bloodthirsty religion Christianity is and has always been.


#155    SpiritWriter

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 03:54 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 April 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:


What a bloodthirsty religion Christianity is and has always been.

Blood sacrifice was a common "primitive" concept and practice all over the world in many or most cultures from what I understand. Christianity has actually made it so that it is no longer necessary as Christ was the final sacrifice... so actually other religions practiced this way after Christianity was established and still do today.

Edited by SpiritWriter, 06 April 2013 - 03:57 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#156    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 03:56 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 06 April 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Blood sacrifice was a common "primitive" concept and practise. Christianity has actually made it so that it is no longer necessary as Christ was the final sacrifice... so actually other religions practiced this way after Christianity was established and still do today.
Christianity came along and "cleaned it up?"  The whole idea of a sacrifice, blood or no blood, is just primitive magic.  That Christianity still keeps to such practices is one of many reasons I could never be a Christian.


#157    Mikko-kun

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 04:15 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 06 April 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Blood sacrifice was a common "primitive" concept and practice all over the world in many or most cultures from what I understand. Christianity has actually made it so that it is no longer necessary as Christ was the final sacrifice... so actually other religions practiced this way after Christianity was established and still do today.

This begs the question, if he hadn't sacrificied himself or if he was just like the rest of us, then why were the blood sacrifices there in the first place? I have a theory of death and rebirth that might well explain it, an age-old concept which western astrology probably absorbed from Babylon. Just begs the question how people in very different areas got the same idea in their own forms and held it in high regard.

I've been born again 31,8,2014 approximately 21:35 local time. A moment free of clutter in the mind, emancipating myself like an escapist, allowing myself to breathe life in a stronger, less physical level... though it does resonate to physical world. It's the oomph.

#158    SpiritWriter

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 04:16 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 April 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:


Christianity came along and "cleaned it up?"  The whole idea of a sacrifice, blood or no blood, is just primitive magic.  That Christianity still keeps to such practices is one of many reasons I could never be a Christian.

I think you sound very judgemental. The fact is that this was a common practice. Now we see it as primitive but there was a time or primitive state were this was the reality and the notion was wide spread, not confined to one area or one culture or religion. Maybe you think that our human race is contrived of absolute idiots, if thats the case we are probably just as big of idiots today but our ideas of what is right and proper are more correct than anyone elses because we are living in our own brains. Maybe you will never be a Christian but maybe one day your box about christianity and the human race will get a little bigger. It is improbable that this practice is deeply imbedded into our primitive minds as a whole race of people without there being a true spiritual, impactful, or magical as you state meaning or reality behind it. It matters not if you as a single individual can see the purpose of blood sacrifice or agree with it. History has already been made the only thing we can do is try to understand it. In the Christian age millions upon millions of people were converted at just hearing the story of Christs sacrifice for all if mankind.... again you may not agree but this is the truth and it directly relates to "our" "primitive" minds needing to be restored and aligned again with God the Creator. In my opinion you sounded sarcastic when you daid "so christ came to fix all that" well yes, thats the myth... is it really so bad?

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#159    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 04:27 PM

Yes, I think the idea that God would demand a human sacrifice, even if He goes ahead and makes Himself, via a sort-of proxy, the victim, is still a horrid ("bad") idea.  It is also the crudest and most primitive sort of magic I can imagine.  Am I judgmental?  If you saw some church doing blood sacrifices, would you be judgmental?


#160    SpiritWriter

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 04:59 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 April 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

Yes, I think the idea that God would demand a human sacrifice, even if He goes ahead and makes Himself, via a sort-of proxy, the victim, is still a horrid ("bad") idea.  It is also the crudest and most primitive sort of magic I can imagine.  Am I judgmental?  If you saw some church doing blood sacrifices, would you be judgmental?

Of course if it was human sacrifice.. animal sacrific I wouldn't agree with but I wouldn't get up in arms about it especially if it was like a goat or something and ate it afterwards. In general I dont like the idea of blood sacrifice but that really seems like an old way of doing things that we have outgrown. I have never heard of a church doing blood sacrifice ever.. I do know a muslim guy that once a year for one of their holidays goes out and kills a goat...  I dont trip with him about it. According to the bible the only human sacrifice ever made was Jesus.. not that this is necessarily true, there may have been human sacrifices but it definately isnt promoted in judaism or christianity.

I will reitetate my point: blood sacrifice is no longer necessary because of Christ. Maybe you think it was never necessary, ok I feel like that too, but thats probably because we live now and not back then..

Edited by SpiritWriter, 06 April 2013 - 05:03 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#161    Mikko-kun

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 05:29 PM

This topic was first about why is the bible not to be questioned and this widespread sacrifice of live -concept could bite to it's core. Recently astrologers have become more aware of a part in our psyche which can trigger self-destructive behavior that stems from a more subliminal level. However, the planet associated with this part of our psyche is a more recent discovery of 21st century, so I dont know how well they've gotten the orbital period yet. If they got it right with 90% or greater accuracy then we could study the pre-christian history where those sacrifices were first seen to become more common practise, if such a point in history can be dated. Studying history through astrology can be killer-accurate, it's actually one of the ways we use to look back into history, could explain many things with it if you wanted and had the time. Jesus did say something about drinking the wine and eating the bread, his flesh and blood (transformed to fermented juice and oven-baked dough, transformation is a Plutoistic thing as well as regeneration and he seemed to be a prodigy in those if the tales are to be believed, so I bet he had a very prominent Pluto).

The most interesting relation between astrology and some parts in the bible might be Jesus saying (was it Jesus?) that "I am alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end." and as a coincindence, the "beginning point" of one of the two most major viewpoints of looking at charts in astrology, the sidereal view which moves in comparison to tropical, isn't aligned with the tropical zodiac often, it has moved around 23 out of 360 degrees in 2000 years or so, so it'd take 31000 years or so to go one full circle for that "time-lag" between the two major viewpoints. And the guy who was born right around that time, perhaps 3 degrees off here or there but that could be counted as a flaw or corruptness in our astronomical measures used in the public ephemeris. And I bet Jesus didn't know jack about astrology unless the story of him being the unwanted son of the pharao or so who was sent to far east to study holy arts in a tibetan monastery, suggesting that Jesus might've been a fugitive royalty shaolin kung-fu man (from Ring of Power documentary film), then he might've had the knowledge with him from there to say that. In any case, it's more than quite a coincidence.

The two astrological viewpoints I'm talking about, tropical and sidereal, have their distinct qualities. Tropical reads the more apparent manifestations and sidereal the less obvious but still there -manifestations, more spiritual ones you might be inclined to say. Those points coming together could be seen as a major point in history.

Edited by Mikko-kun, 06 April 2013 - 05:33 PM.

I've been born again 31,8,2014 approximately 21:35 local time. A moment free of clutter in the mind, emancipating myself like an escapist, allowing myself to breathe life in a stronger, less physical level... though it does resonate to physical world. It's the oomph.

#162    SpiritWriter

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 06:16 PM

Lol I love all the perspectives! Thanks fir sharing your asrological insight and ponderings Mikko.

And thank you too Frank. I enjoy discussing things with you even though I have noticed some strong contrasts in what we believe. Just want to let you know that I dont hold anything against you for not thinking like me, I've enjoyed a lot of things you've had to say on some topics and know you think the way you thibk by natural process. You may be partially judgemental but who here is not, right?

Peace

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#163    Mikko-kun

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 06:56 PM

No problem, glad not every takes it all-bad :D I think bible might have some very good stuff to give to everyone, but some people I seen seem to take it's things in very literal and practical sense instead of trying to think them as concepts and something they can choose how to approach to.

Edited by Mikko-kun, 06 April 2013 - 06:58 PM.

I've been born again 31,8,2014 approximately 21:35 local time. A moment free of clutter in the mind, emancipating myself like an escapist, allowing myself to breathe life in a stronger, less physical level... though it does resonate to physical world. It's the oomph.

#164    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 07:15 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 April 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

Christianity came along and "cleaned it up?" The whole idea of a sacrifice, blood or no blood, is just primitive magic. That Christianity still keeps to such practices is one of many reasons I could never be a Christian.
I think one point that might be worthwhile is that Christianity substituted a metaphorical sacrifice for an actual one (unless one does believe that the Bread and Wine are the actual Blood and Body of Christ, but I've always thought that a bit wierd.)

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


:cat:


#165    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:41 PM

View PostMikko-kun, on 23 March 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Can you be a christian and still make your own way, leaving bible alone? Is bible the only way?
As far as I understand, bible is not god, but something that describes god. As such, it is like a letter, a word, a tool of communication (learning). Bible is to learn of god.
If so, why wouldn't it be possible to learn of god from the other ways too? The way of learning that requires you to just accept what you read without consent is a realistic sort of way to learn, whereas the way of learning in which you reach beyond what's within your grasp, is a more intuitive "hunch" way of learning. I believe the latter should not be ignored when learning of god, even if it may be a more subjective way. And ultimately, all that we learn comes from somewhere other than directly from god itself in that certain miracle-making sense.

Why wouldn't other religious texts, like Koran or the Vedic scrolls or the indian epochs or Taoist books or whatnot, also serve christians? Apart from the reason that "I am the one and only god, thou shalt have no other gods."? What prevents you from studying them to gain insight to whatever link there is to god in this plane? Studying doesn't have to mean absorbing others' ideas and ideals, it can be "taking the ideas in with healthy questioning and putting them to context with your world-view", fitting them in to your view. I believe that if there is a god, that god can have everything put together like pieces of a puzzle.
Hi Mikko-kun,

Jesus Christ is about love because He is the embodiment of love. He also gives hope (that a paradise/heaven is "at the end of the tunnel"). One of his goals is to unite: "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd," John 10:16.

It's really important to know His story, where He came from, His ancient lineage, and His father's role (that means knowing the ancient religious culture of the Mediterranean). The Bible is a doorway, so to speak. I, too, am just getting reacquainted with Jesus. There's so much to know; however, my yoga/meditation background, knowledge of Feng Shui and crystals/minerals (ancient pagan beliefs) give the Bible an inclusive voice, not rejecting people.

I cannot stress this enough: the internet is the best place to dissect and share info, as regards to getting to the bottom of Jesus' Christ-ness, the "Love Messiah" who holds the key to Paradise/Heaven. I say, "love" because His presence is "unconditional love," beyond compare. He was the only Being who had the power to get me out of that Void (in the afterlife), and I wasn't even a practicing Christian when it happened (even though I was baptized when I was baby). I was, however, a kundalini yoga teacher (with a proper lineage) and a practicing pagan (ancient magic) at that time. Jesus was there for me, in spite of everything -- that says a lot. How do I know it's Jesus? That "unconditional love" power's the key, and His name came to my "awareness" instantly -- not to mention His golden bright radiance and long hair. He was in His glorified ethereal form, but the face was obscured. He was the only One who came to my rescue.


Peace.

Edited by braveone2u, 06 April 2013 - 10:52 PM.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
My Lord is not a judge but a loving Divine Being. Love is our natural state, and it also demands us to grow up. Our conscience tells us when we are not in that state of love.




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