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how do you explain shared experiences?


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#61    SpiritWriter

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:51 AM



 scowl, on 10 April 2013 - 04:39 AM, said:



Exactly. I can't imagine anyone more fragile than someone who has absolutely no friends or family to talk to. A person in that position must wonder how they got there.

When I went through my most horrifying sleep hallucinations, fortunately I was in college and every campus (as far as I know) has psychiatric care for students. I was then just one more doctor away from finding what was happening to me. I didn't discuss this with friends or family because they were not professionals who could help me. I told them after I had been through a sleep study and they found out what was going on.

I am very happy that I had gotten a correct medical diagnosis instead of asking strangers what they thought might be happening to me.

Just because a person cant talk to thier friends and family about supernatural experiences doesn't mean they dont have a support system. I have a very supportive family but if I went to them they probably would have pointed me in the route that you have gone, and I must admit I am glad that I didnt.  Im glad that the doctors cleared things up for you, that is great and excellent and now you can rest properly. But does that mean everyone else has to buy into the psychiatry system? I couldn't talk to family because they were athiest and didnt believe in anything spiritual at all.. i am blessed to have had some friends that i could talk to about it and i am sad for people who have to be completely quiet. Im sure they are out there.

Based on my experiences i have concluded there is more to it than mere brain dysfunction. If there IS something more to it, then how much knowledge are we missing out on when we completely reject all possibilities.

A proof for me is "Shared Experience". I dont need to go back and forth and recheck myself about this either. I know some supetnatural things happened with me and other people who were there. I dont need to trick myself into believing it never happened.

Let me repost the OP...




The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#62    CrimsonKing

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:59 AM

 Frank Merton, on 10 April 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Ghosts are pretty much the only outre experience people have that I think may have some reality to them, and even then I doubt they are the usually spirits of dead people.

Well, I should qualify that: all such experiences except those made up are "real" to the person having them, but generally what is behind them is far more mundane than we guess.

I agree with this in a way frank,i believe apparitions are more of a crossover of dimensions than what some put the thought behind to make some extraordinary story out of.Im no expert but with all of these stories of ghastly ghost,haunting demons,malevolent spirits in the last 50 years we would have some kind of 100% proof of them existing,out to cause trouble,or trying to destroy others (wouldnt one think that if a supernatural evil wants you dead,you would be gone?) But anyways i let people believe what they want to,doesnt stop my life from going day by day till im gone.So if some choose to believe everything bad or good happens to them by some supernatural force...Fine by me

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#63    SpiritWriter

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:00 AM

 SpiritWriter, on 05 March 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

We often see that unexplained phenomenon is shared between one or more people who afterward describe the event in the same way.. on these threads I see skeptics challenging the validity of these phenomenon, but I never see the shared experience aspect challenged.

Examples:

1.Five people live in a house that is haunted, two of them can see the same ghost and give it the exact same description. All family members witness things flying around in the house at the same time. Other people who come over also have heard voices in the house and had never heard anything like this before.

2. three people are together in a field and all of them see three large brightly colored orbs in the sky that come close to the ground and suddenly fly off at great speed leaving a light trail

3. Three people witness a creature that looks like a werewolf, he is standing upright and is 8 ft tall, he chases them and they all go to the bathroom on themselves. Each of them describe seeing this creature clearly and each description of sequence of events and physical characteristics of the monster is the same.

4. 2 people enter the astral realm together, first they are at the beach looking at the water but then suddenly both of them are standing on a high ledge on the top of a mountain, they both are amazed and can see the exact same things.

These examples are similar to some that I have read about, heard about or have experienced with others in real life. Let's pretend that lying is not an option.. to the best of your ability how can you explain Shared Experiences?

You dont need to use these examples, you can use your own or stick to general terms. I'm just trying to explain the sort of thing I mean...

...

Do you really think everyone is lying or that their brain disorders are so good they can successfully overlap and coincide? Or maybe there is something more that is possible but we should just ignore it...

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#64    SpiritWriter

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:17 AM

 Mabon, on 10 April 2013 - 05:18 AM, said:




I feel your pain Ethyl. The aspect that most people who recognize SP symptoms fail to consider is the fear that SP episodes evoke. The fear is so real to the individual and evokes such strong emotions that it colors all the other evidence. What may seem like a person having a tantrum/reaction (NO! It really wuz a demonz!) may be someone who can't get past the fear of the event to look logically at the event. This may be why the demonic possession/it's demon aspect answer is going to be the one they latch on to and eventually will not be moved from. Especially, when it is prejudiced by a belief system. Their fear is real, I don't doubt that and they had an experience that is outside of their average life but instead of being objective they are too tied to the fear both of the event and of demons. That is if they aren't seeking attention, or have other agendas/issues.


Mabon.

Or perhaps they arent moved because they know what they experienced. I dont know why a person needs to be be moved from it at all. Like I said before... state the facts.. I saw a demon. We can move ourself from fear.. but that doesn't change what already happened.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#65    Frank Merton

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:17 AM

There are bound to be things happen all the time that we don't understand.  We don't understand how the light waves from the sun reach the earth through the vacuum of space, even though we have mathematical equations that describe it.  If things that common we leave unexplained, why can't we leave less common things in the same space?


#66    SpiritWriter

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:35 AM

 Frank Merton, on 10 April 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

There are bound to be things happen all the time that we don't understand.  We don't understand how the light waves from the sun reach the earth through the vacuum of space, even though we have mathematical equations that describe it.  If things that common we leave unexplained, why can't we leave less common things in the same space?

Well it probably depends.. if you are drawn to a particular subject what should you do? If you are led to disregard it and say, welp Ill never figure that one out.. do you throw up your hands and never discuss it with anyone? Whos to say you dont already have a clue to some of the answers or that you will understand more as life continues. Why should everyone be quiet about what they've experienced just because you choose to? And besides Frank I think you do like talking about it a little bit or you wouldnt be here. I assume its because of the fact that you see ghosts sometimes.  On here we talk a lot about fear... we can deal with our fear no matter what we take from or attribute to these experiences. Understanding to the best of our abilities the possibilities and the approaches of others shouldn't increase our fear but rather decrease it and that is part of the reason why I think its good for people to have the chance to talk about these things with others.

Edited by SpiritWriter, 10 April 2013 - 06:43 AM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#67    SpiritWriter

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:46 AM

 CrimsonKing, on 10 April 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:



I agree with this in a way frank,i believe apparitions are more of a crossover of dimensions than what some put the thought behind to make some extraordinary story out of.Im no expert but with all of these stories of ghastly ghost,haunting demons,malevolent spirits in the last 50 years we would have some kind of 100% proof of them existing,out to cause trouble,or trying to destroy others (wouldnt one think that if a supernatural evil wants you dead,you would be gone?) But anyways i let people believe what they want to,doesnt stop my life from going day by day till im gone.So if some choose to believe everything bad or good happens to them by some supernatural force...Fine by me

God protects us from the devil... he allows him to mess with us a little bit though... my thoughts

And there has been proof, you already admitted this yourself, but state you only believe peoples testimonies that are similar to yours... so now there is no proof except for what you and your friends experienced on that strange and mysterious day?.. give me a break. There is proof my friend, you have some for yourself..

Edited by SpiritWriter, 10 April 2013 - 07:09 AM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#68    CrimsonKing

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:47 AM

 SpiritWriter, on 10 April 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Well it probably depends.. if you are drawn to a particular subject what should you do? If you are led to disregard it and say, welp Ill never figure that one out.. do you throw up your hands and never discuss it with anyone? Whos to say yoy dont alrwady have a clue to some of the answers or that you will understand more as life continues. Why should everyone be quiet about what theyve experienced just because you choose to? And besides Frank I think you do like talking about it a little bit or you wouldnt be here. I assume its because of the fact that you see ghosts sometimes.  On here we talk a lot about fear... we can deal with our fear no matter what we take from or attribute to these experiences. Understanding to the best of our abilities the possibilities and the approaches of others shouldnt increase our fear...

To quote Tupac "My only fear of death is reincarnation" im not religious but i do believe energy never dies.About the only fear i have is one day coming back to "this" world.The way we are going,the way human thoughts are headed in the direction of......I want nothing to do with any of it,when im gone im gone.If i do leave behind a ghost look out because if disturbed i will wreak enough havoc that someone will get a good video tape of it to have proof haha

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#69    SpiritWriter

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:00 AM

 CrimsonKing, on 10 April 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:



To quote Tupac "My only fear of death is reincarnation" im not religious but i do believe energy never dies.About the only fear i have is one day coming back to "this" world.The way we are going,the way human thoughts are headed in the direction of......I want nothing to do with any of it,when im gone im gone.If i do leave behind a ghost look out because if disturbed i will wreak enough havoc that someone will get a good video tape of it to have proof haha

I also believe our energy doesn't die and I believe that we are a part of all creation.. we may not return here.. but perhaps we do.. I dont think we are in controll of that aspect. We have been given little control (depending on your percpective, taking into account the ripple effect) and are in charge of governing the direction of ourselves and whomever we may have charge over/ influence on... I think that these things matter and make a difference both in this realm and for whatever is next. I am talking in big picture terms as well as "here and now" basics...

Edit: yes it is sad about the direction but we do have some say in that...

My thoughts :)

Oh and you know tupac isnt really dead...

Edited by SpiritWriter, 10 April 2013 - 07:03 AM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#70    CrimsonKing

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:17 AM

 SpiritWriter, on 10 April 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

I also believe our energy doesn't die and I believe that we are a part of all creation.. we may not return here.. but perhaps we do.. I dont think we are in controll of that aspect. We have been given little control (depending on your percpective, taking into account the ripple effect) and are in charge of governing the direction of ourselves and whomever we may have charge over/ influence on... I think that these things matter and make a difference both in this realm and for whatever is next. I am talking in big picture terms as well as "here and now" basics...

Edit: yes it is sad about the direction but we do have some say in that...

My thoughts :)

So if i wind up being brought back here,i can blame it on creationist?  :lol:  JK  just making fun of a recent post i responded to the whole "lets blame everything on someone else crowd' just figured i might go ahead and be the first to try it for the next realm haha.Honestly i myself do not see us as having any control of what is next,energy is free though can be harnessed,yet still once used returns to free energy.

Edited by CrimsonKing, 10 April 2013 - 07:18 AM.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#71    Frank Merton

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:23 AM

Oh we all enjoy talking about things and speculating.  It's just that in the end we have to realize that generally we are just blowing air.  We really don't even understand what it means to "understand."  It's something that happens in the mind is about all we can say.


#72    The Silver Thong

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:26 AM

holding hands

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#73    CrimsonKing

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:28 AM

 Frank Merton, on 10 April 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Oh we all enjoy talking about things and speculating.  It's just that in the end we have to realize that generally we are just blowing air.  We really don't even understand what it means to "understand."  It's something that happens in the mind is about all we can say.

So to say...Yes you are correct,but i am stubborn and i know this as fact  :lol:  I want answers if anyone can prove them as fact  haha

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#74    CrimsonKing

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:29 AM

 SpiritWriter, on 10 April 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Oh and you know tupac isnt really dead...

:lol: Ok now this post gets moved to the conspiracy section haha

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#75    CrimsonKing

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:34 AM

 The Silver Thong, on 10 April 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

holding hands

Get your hands off me,you damn dirty ape  :lol:

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu




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