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how do you explain shared experiences?


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#76    Mabon

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:06 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 10 April 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Or perhaps they arent moved because they know what they experienced. I dont know why a person needs to be be moved from it at all. Like I said before... state the facts.. I saw a demon. We can move ourself from fear.. but that doesn't change what already happened.

What event transpired can't be changed but perceptions can change.

An individual can't state and be factual that they saw a demon, because not everyone shares the love of cheese. In truth what does that statement even mean, "I saw a demon"? That isn't a description it's a conclusion.

In my opinion, if someone believes they are haunted and are having SP the fear and the stigma that comes from some rigid belief systems will assure that they remain in agony for years instead of looking into several options. It's what scowl wrote about.

A person has an event that impacts their life and they become convinced that the conclusion they've reached (through their belief and talking with others who've shared a similar experience/belief) is the answer. Now if it is a one time episode (saw a ghost of their dead cat) it may not be a problem but if it is a series of episodes/events they may begin to obsess and fixate on that because they've become convinced and will not be moved to even consider alternative answers/explanations. This goes back to and is the fear of the unknown.This fixation will also give them a distraction from understanding the root of the stress or what started the SP cycles in the first place because a lot of people don't want to admit that they are having other issues. The person may have been experiencing one or more of the following; prolonged stress, lack of quality sleep or interrupted sleep, waking hallucinations, irritability and mood swings. So far this does sound demonic in nature. If they become convinced that's what it is by talking with others who have shared a similar experience how does belief really help? Does it reduce the stress, help them get back on a healthy sleep cycle, address mood swings etc and they BELIEVED with all their might that (prayer, burning sage, salt holy water, exorcism, fill in the blank) would work and their deity would deliver them. So they continue on in an unhealthy state rather than admit they didn't know and look at other possibilities. This doesn't have to shake the foundational belief system of the person. You can still believe in X and have SP. It's just that what they thought/believed/identified it as originally was.... dare I say it..... wrong. It's not about the whole belief system but the episode/event was misidentified.

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#77    SpiritWriter

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:08 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 10 April 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Oh we all enjoy talking about things and speculating.  It's just that in the end we have to realize that generally we are just blowing air.  We really don't even understand what it means to "understand."  It's something that happens in the mind is about all we can say.

I agree but what else can we do but try and in fact we do have "some" understanding, for whatever that piece is worth and it may turn out to be valuable...

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#78    SpiritWriter

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:24 PM

View PostMabon, on 10 April 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:



What event transpired can't be changed but perceptions can change.

An individual can't state and be factual that they saw a demon, because not everyone shares the love of cheese. In truth what does that statement even mean, "I saw a demon"? That isn't a description it's a conclusion.

In my opinion, if someone believes they are haunted and are having SP the fear and the stigma that comes from some rigid belief systems will assure that they remain in agony for years instead of looking into several options. It's what scowl wrote about.

A person has an event that impacts their life and they become convinced that the conclusion they've reached (through their belief and talking with others who've shared a similar experience/belief) is the answer. Now if it is a one time episode (saw a ghost of their dead cat) it may not be a problem but if it is a series of episodes/events they may begin to obsess and fixate on that because they've become convinced and will not be moved to even consider alternative answers/explanations. This goes back to and is the fear of the unknown.This fixation will also give them a distraction from understanding the root of the stress or what started the SP cycles in the first place because a lot of people don't want to admit that they are having other issues. The person may have been experiencing one or more of the following; prolonged stress, lack of quality sleep or interrupted sleep, waking hallucinations, irritability and mood swings. So far this does sound demonic in nature. If they become convinced that's what it is by talking with others who have shared a similar experience how does belief really help? Does it reduce the stress, help them get back on a healthy sleep cycle, address mood swings etc and they BELIEVED with all their might that (prayer, burning sage, salt holy water, exorcism, fill in the blank) would work and their deity would deliver them. So they continue on in an unhealthy state rather than admit they didn't know and look at other possibilities. This doesn't have to shake the foundational belief system of the person. You can still believe in X and have SP. It's just that what they thought/believed/identified it as originally was.... dare I say it..... wrong. It's not about the whole belief system but the episode/event was misidentified.

Mabon.

And now you are projecting your belief system. My OP is shared experiences.... what is your take on that? If you already answered that I may have missed it.. my diety did save me from my issues and I dont see that as bad or as a problem I need to rearrange my head around. Visible entities are not cheese...

Edited by SpiritWriter, 10 April 2013 - 02:29 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#79    Mabon

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 03:01 PM

Yes I have a belief system. From time to time I've been known to express it. What I try to do is not beat someone to death with it or get my knickers in a twist when others don't share my opinion.

I did discuss shared experiences, have been discussing shared experiences and you have been responding to it.

Glad that you found relief through your belief system. Glad that it worked for you.

I'm not sure how this became about your situation or experiences. I was speaking about hypothetical situations or other peoples experiences. I'm not trying to dissuade you from your belief or your conclusions about your experience. I don't even know what your experience are, nor did I think it was germane to the OP.

No but visible entities may be hallucinations which was the situation I described in my last post. That a conclusion based on fear and a rigid belief can be wrong but does not have to cast doubt on an individuals belief in a higher power.

Geese lighten up a little... I know visible entities aren't cheese but cheese is a visible entity.

Mabon.

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One need not be a house;
The brain has corridors surpassing
Material place.  ~ Emily Dickinson


#80    SpiritWriter

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 03:10 PM

View PostMabon, on 10 April 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Yes I have a belief system. From time to time I've been known to express it. What I try to do is not beat someone to death with it or get my knickers in a twist when others don't share my opinion.

I did discuss shared experiences, have been discussing shared experiences and you have been responding to it.

Glad that you found relief through your belief system. Glad that it worked for you.

I'm not sure how this became about your situation or experiences. I was speaking about hypothetical situations or other peoples experiences. I'm not trying to dissuade you from your belief or your conclusions about your experience. I don't even know what your experience are, nor did I think it was germane to the OP.

No but visible entities may be hallucinations which was the situation I described in my last post. That a conclusion based on fear and a rigid belief can be wrong but does not have to cast doubt on an individuals belief in a higher power.

Geese lighten up a little... I know visible entities aren't cheese but cheese is a visible entity.

Mabon.

Not germane to the thread but germane to how I respond. I am lightened up enough... I just want to make my points too. Ty :)

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Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#81    scowl

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 04:21 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 10 April 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Ghosts are pretty much the only outre experience people have that I think may have some reality to them, and even then I doubt they are the usually spirits of dead people.


One quality of most ghost reports is that they're often just shapeless blobs of light. Lots of things can cause them and be misinterpreted consistently by multiple people, especially when they're in some kind of spooky environment.

Some believe that most ghost reports are of ghosts which are identical to living people. I don't think this is true because all non-hoaxed ghost photos and videos show ghosts as indistinct shapes, often not even in human proportions. Apparently if they're below the horizon they're ghosts and if they're above the horizon they're UFOs.


#82    SpiritWriter

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 04:47 PM

View Postscowl, on 10 April 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

[/size]

One quality of most ghost reports is that they're often just shapeless blobs of light. Lots of things can cause them and be misinterpreted consistently by multiple people, especially when they're in some kind of spooky environment.

Some believe that most ghost reports are of ghosts which are identical to living people. I don't think this is true because all non-hoaxed ghost photos and videos show ghosts as indistinct shapes, often not even in human proportions. Apparently if they're below the horizon they're ghosts and if they're above the horizon they're UFOs.

Most of the ghosts ive seen were of human forms, I did see one in this shifty form however, that one was floating in the sky, that one reminded me of casper the friendly ghost, and truthfully, this is the only "ghost" shared experience i had. The others, the ones in human form were touching the ground and had that "see through" quality. Once (that I know of) I saw a ghost that appeared completely solid.

*not floating above the horizon but like 8 feet in the air... floating horizontally down the street, both me and my friend saw this together, it was such a long time ago! We were like 12...

Edited by SpiritWriter, 10 April 2013 - 04:58 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#83    SpiritWriter

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 04:51 PM

To my best recollection I have seen 7 ghosts total in my life... one was a shared experience, one was of a person I didnt even know was dead yet. I am not disturbed by these experiences. I am greatful both that I am not bombarded with these things and that I have witnessed a little bit of it.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#84    coldethyl

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:14 PM

OP means original poster.

Just not sure if that's  clear.


#85    SpiritWriter

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:33 PM

Or original post?

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#86    scowl

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:25 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 10 April 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

Most of the ghosts ive seen were of human forms, I did see one in this shifty form however, that one was floating in the sky, that one reminded me of casper the friendly ghost, and truthfully, this is the only "ghost" shared experience i had. The others, the ones in human form were touching the ground and had that "see through" quality. Once (that I know of) I saw a ghost that appeared completely solid.

How do you know they were ghosts?


#87    SpiritWriter

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:16 PM

View Postscowl, on 11 April 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:



How do you know they were ghosts?

Well they looked like ghosts. What is a ghost? Is it the spirit of a dead person? It could be.. but these im talking about were human looking apparations.

Edited by SpiritWriter, 11 April 2013 - 08:17 PM.

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Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#88    notforgotten

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:04 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 11 April 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Well they looked like ghosts. What is a ghost? Is it the spirit of a dead person? It could be.. but these im talking about were human looking apparations.
The ghost is not the actual spirit. It's what makes a spirit appear to someone in the visible world with their physical eyes. Any spirit can be wearing a ghost. They do not have to be dead. You, when you are out of your body could be wearing a ghost and seen by others. Those in heaven with God are often seen wearing a white ghost, this is what God and Jesus does and it's the most magnificent ghost of them all.


#89    coldethyl

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:23 AM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 10 April 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

Or original post?

Just saying on UM, it mostly means original poster and can cause confusion.  I was confused as to what you were saying.


#90    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:13 PM

View Postscowl, on 10 April 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

[/size]

One quality of most ghost reports is that they're often just shapeless blobs of light. Lots of things can cause them and be misinterpreted consistently by multiple people, especially when they're in some kind of spooky environment.

Some believe that most ghost reports are of ghosts which are identical to living people. I don't think this is true because all non-hoaxed ghost photos and videos show ghosts as indistinct shapes, often not even in human proportions. Apparently if they're below the horizon they're ghosts and if they're above the horizon they're UFOs.

So how do you account for people who see full apparitions? Not "blobs of light", concrete figures that are clearly not of this world? Hold up, my psychic senses are kicking in here... *hands on temples* would it be... that they're mentally ill or liars?

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