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Edgar Mitchell says a lot.......


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#181    psyche101

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:38 AM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 08 April 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

"It seems like you are well versed on the UFO topic,"

Psyche101 doesn't know much about the UFO phenomenon. You can tell by his post.

Hahaha, yeah, great rebuttal there! Really thought that one through didn't ya! :w00t:

You know, I think a few people might just disagree with you, I seem to know a great deal more than you do. I had to even tell you what a BEK was. I tend to support with links to facts and processes, you just link to the odd crappy drawing and tall tale with a great big Ohh Ahhh at the end of your story. But I am used to it with the lazy ETH'ers. They never want to do any work, they think they have already done by presenting this "awesome evidence". lol. I am afraid you need to do more than just impress yourselves.

LOL, conspiracy buff is better at this than you too, look how hard I had to work for that reply! That's what I like to see - effort, conviction, the reason one takes on their side, not whining about being beaten in every debate you attempt. I might not agree, but I can respect that effort. You could learn a lot from these guys Stu, shame MacGuff is not around, he could have shown you the way to produce a decent argument instead of whining about losing them all the time. All you could produce is a lazy one liner. Not very committed to your cause are you now. You just want it all to flow your way, and get upset when it does not. Guess what Disco Stu, your "information" is hardly conclusive, and not compelling. If it was even half as strong as you try to make out, we would not even be having this conversation. Welcome to the real world.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#182    topsecretresearch

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:20 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 08 April 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

Hahaha, yeah, great rebuttal there! Really thought that one through didn't ya! :w00t:

You know, I think a few people might just disagree with you, I seem to know a great deal more than you do. I had to even tell you what a BEK was. I tend to support with links to facts and processes, you just link to the odd crappy drawing and tall tale with a great big Ohh Ahhh at the end of your story. But I am used to it with the lazy ETH'ers. They never want to do any work, they think they have already done by presenting this "awesome evidence". lol. I am afraid you need to do more than just impress yourselves.

LOL, conspiracy buff is better at this than you too, look how hard I had to work for that reply! That's what I like to see - effort, conviction, the reason one takes on their side, not whining about being beaten in every debate you attempt. I might not agree, but I can respect that effort. You could learn a lot from these guys Stu, shame MacGuff is not around, he could have shown you the way to produce a decent argument instead of whining about losing them all the time. All you could produce is a lazy one liner. Not very committed to your cause are you now. You just want it all to flow your way, and get upset when it does not. Guess what Disco Stu, your "information" is hardly conclusive, and not compelling. If it was even half as strong as you try to make out, we would not even be having this conversation. Welcome to the real world.

Hey man, believe what you want but one day you'll learn that twisting things around and playing spin doctor is very adolescent and a lot of people can see through that sort of thing. Also there's an entire world out there and you are just spinning your wheels in front of a computer screen.

Lets say some UFOs are from more advanced life forms. The average person who doesn't waste their time on this subject matter will have the attitude I knew it all along. It just was't smart to openly talk about it at the time. That's just the way normal people are. They adapt and move on. Oh yeah, UFOs I knew they were real but didn't want to get laughed at or lose my job.

It's one thing to have a natural curiosity but when it encompasses your entire life then there's something more going on. ETs or the disbelief in them to the point of obsession is a refelction of a mental state that isn't very well.

Edited by topsecretresearch, 08 April 2013 - 09:23 AM.


#183    psyche101

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:39 AM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 08 April 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Hey man, believe what you want but one day you'll learn that twisting things around and playing spin doctor is very adolescent and a lot of people can see through that sort of thing. Also there's an entire world out there and you are just spinning your wheels in front of a computer screen.

Lets say some UFOs are from more advanced life forms. The average person who doesn't waste their time on this subject matter will have the attitude I knew it all along. It just was't smart to openly talk about it at the time. That's just the way normal people are. They adapt and move on. Oh yeah, UFOs I knew they were real but didn't want to get laughed at or lose my job.

It's one thing to have a natural curiosity but when it encompasses your entire life then there's something more going on. ETs or the disbelief in them to the point of obsession is a refelction of a mental state that isn't very well.

I do believe I know more of the world than you do, I have corrected and advised you on many erroneous claims. You are stuck in the 70's school of UFOlogy. These days we ask questions, we want to know. If these exciting tales, and I do admit they come up with some good tales, have even an ounce of truth to them, then people want to know. As I said, I have had an interest since I was a child. This is not new to me. Which is why I applaud MacGuff. I know the cases he has discussed, and when he speaks of them, I know he did not just Google it. There is a major difference, the world has grown up, and we don't listen on the edge of our seats any more, we want to know. Which is what makes your post so ironic. You make many stupid comments about sitting behind a screen, yet it seems quite obvious with your dated outlook of the phenomena that is all you do. Quillius stated being able to spin is a positive trait, so as I said, it is a compliment, even though you attempt to make it sound otherwise. You cannot even insult well. You need to catch up to modern investigations and findings. Just saying a craft is 8 foot square does not cut the mustard these days, people want to know how could 5 or 6 beings be in something so small, and cross space, because physics do not allow it, and invoking ET as an explain all is no better than the ancient Greeks invoking the Gods. If you cannot take a bloody nose, you should not put on the gloves mate. You have to explain how these amazing claims are possible not just look wide eyed at each other going "Yeah, I know righhht!".
We all have natural curiosity, but lets face it, there are two distinct types of believer. You have the Friedmans, The Goodchilds, the Adamski's, The Lazars, the bottom of the barrel, the snake oil salesmen. This is the worst UFOLogy has to offer the world, and it is the part you are handing out leaflets for. As such, I am truly surprised that you would not completely expect a reaction like mine. But the field lends credibility from the Sagan's, The Hawking's, The Drake's, The Dysons. The people who have a real grasp on what might be out there, and how we might find it. If you cannot see the difference between Clifford Stone and Carl Sagan, I am honestly not sure what else I could tell you to help you understand where I am coming from. But these people are having a red hot go at really finding life, not sitting on their hands at home calling every adversary a debunker. That is lazy, hardly convincing, and has no credibility.
Let me ask you, why do you believe in tall tales, but have so little respect for science, and these Giants of the space world, who actually know more than you and I tied together and folded over? And why do you take such offence to a simple request for evidence? Is it because you know it does not exist?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#184    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:47 AM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 08 April 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:


Lets say some UFOs are from more advanced life forms. The average person who doesn't waste their time on this subject matter will have the attitude I knew it all along. It just was't smart to openly talk about it at the time. That's just the way normal people are. They adapt and move on. Oh yeah, UFOs I knew they were real but didn't want to get laughed at or lose my job.

It's one thing to have a natural curiosity but when it encompasses your entire life then there's something more going on.


Well when i first came here i had firm belief into area 51 and ET crap. In years of being here and learning things and events and more i came to conclusion that we might have been visited ( my opinion is we had been more than just once ), but there were sightings of military black projects too, from ww2 on and evolution of technology we had recorded many UFOs ( ET,aerial, or just military in nature ). There is material that might indicate visitation before our modern archives but that is questionable...

I once wrote a blog about how i felt that UFOs are nothing more that nazis research being researched by US, but when i was writing it i learned that there is more to it than just human science. One might no see it or believe it but i dont mind what others think i have my theory about this. I think that once we reach out of our solar system will find many other civilizations... that is from my POV very logical since we been in existence as human race for a very very short time.. and our universe is very very old, still young based on science but very old for us, humans...

So saying that there isnt any advanced life forms out there is very .. well smart.. Our religion and the limitation of thinking of majority of our race has made people very close minded i dont need scientific proof for that there cant be one, it can only be observed.

So think what you want, believe what you want, i believe in them i just cant show any scientific proof for them because there is none and probably never will be... Only words and pictures, but that is enough... People once believed earth was flat as they think ET life isnt out there... Well i think  it is round and very firmly out there...

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#185    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:58 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 08 April 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Just saying a craft is 8 foot square does not cut the mustard these days, people want to know how could 5 or 6 beings be in something so small, and cross space, because physics do not allow it..

Psyche you cannot compare our laws to the universes.. Basic physics might work here and math too but beyond our solar system things might work differently for that matter i dont even have a clue if any of our laws would work... and in 100 years of our young civilization we will be traveling all over solar system.. maybe sooner...

But if same physics do apply to everything in universe the same way as they do here... than life is 100 per cent out there, and if older than us which would be 100 per cent possible too means that visitatons did happen and advanced life was here... Because we will go the same way in 200 or more years we will be in other solar systems, exploring other planets.

Physics doesnt prove much here... Just because WE are limited to our technology and thinking doesnt mean everything out there is on the same level... We dont know what is out there because our technology isnt good enough ( yet ), but looking at way how we are evolving we will soon be all over the system.

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#186    conspiracy buff

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 08 April 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

"It seems like you are well versed on the UFO topic,"

Psyche101 doesn't know much about the UFO phenomenon. You can tell by his post.

From what I've seen, Psyche 101 just has that skeptical slant towards anything having to do with UFOs and more specifically any cover-up that the US Govt. has going on for it.  It seems like p101 knows the historical version and cover stories but is unwilling to admit that it seems highly likely that there is a cover-up going on.  I am reminded of the Jim Marrs statement from his book "Alien Agenda" in which he says the UFO topic is subjective and controversial because of the clashing of opposing mindsets.  Simply put, those who believe will not change their opinions on the topic and skeptics will never believe even if mounting circumstantial evidence is right in front of them.  While I do respect the differing viewpoints and the desire for tangible proof, I do not agree with that mindset personally.

I could quote p101 again and dissect pieces of his words and offer alternative takes on it but what's the point?  P101 believes what he believes and likewise for myself.  I am a believer of conspiracies mainly because our government has been guilty of so much disinformation and misleading the masses to suit their own purposes.  And it is not just on the ET and UFO topic.  You can research all kinds of covert government projects and historical events that have very sinister and questionable motives behind them to say the least.  But, back to the topic at hand; Edgar Mitchell and the UFO cover-up theory.  You have numerous high ranking NASA, FBI, CIA, and even those in the police force that are very credible witnesses that are not prone to making things up and would clearly be able to discern US aircraft from those unidentifiable and unexplained.  And yes, I'm sure p101 will quote that part and have a field day with it because of my previous claim of government cover-up.  The difference being that those NASA, FBI, and CIA personnel that went on record with sighting claims were obviously not part of the cover-up.  These people would have the utmost of integrity and had much more to lose by telling their stories than they would ever gain.  Last but not least, is the quote p101 had about Philip Corso's integrity and honesty being in question.  While there are elements of his story that are farfetched, his credentials are there and he did have a major hand in the military.  He was around others much higher in rank who would know these things.  Another thing about Corso's claims that makes me believe in them is that he waited until he was virtually on his deathbed to reveal these things.  His intentions seemed noble and to inform the people of what is really going on behind the scenes.  What did this guy possibly have to gain by telling his story?  Skeptics have never been able to give a convincing answer to that besides the usual about him wanting to gain money from books or interviews.  When you objectively view Corso's claims when combined with those of astronauts like Edgar Mitchell, Gordon Cooper, James McDevitt, etc you have to wonder how much circumstantial evidence is enough to convince even the most skeptical people?  If these people who were actually in space said that aliens and UFO's were out there and that the government is covering it up, I would tend to believe them a helluva lot more than any skeptic with their name calling just because they don't want to see what is right in front of them.  Everyone chooses to believe what they want, which is fine.  My problem is that most skeptics ridicule those inclined to believe the evidence even when they are being 100% logical and aren't your typical crackpots or crazies.  Because, believe me not every believer is crazy.  That's the way our government has conditioned our culture; to dismiss the believers as being crazy.  Which in and of itself is a child-like mentality and the truth will never be known until all theories can be looked at objectively and either proven or debunked.  I'm willing to believe whatever the evidence will show, which seems to be something skeptics cannot do because of their contrasting mindsets which is sad.  That limits their ability to look at every possibility and examine the issues.


There is a grain of truth in every conspiracy known to man, you just have to be intelligent enough to find it.

#187    S2F

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:43 PM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

I'm willing to believe whatever the evidence will show, which seems to be something skeptics cannot do because of their contrasting mindsets which is sad.  That limits their ability to look at every possibility and examine the issues.

Then why does any evidence for the ETH need special pleading to even be considered evidence? Every bit of evidence for the ETH is open to interpretation but the pro-visitation crowd can't ever support their interpretation with anything more than 'it must be because I believe so'. That is being objective to you? In such a scenario who then is being childish?

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#188    Frank Merton

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:53 PM

Yea, that's kinda been my experience; all sorts of remarkable things are claimed but never seem to be more than just claims and in the end always end up with all sorts of problems being rationalized away, or evidence asserted to be evidence being underwhelming when you actually (rare) get to see it.  It just a sort of religion, but without a cultural foundation.  There are a lot of people making money off this religion.

And then they give us speeches about a skeptical mind-set.  It's really insultingly outrageous how stupid they must think we are.


#189    psyche101

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:41 AM

View PostTesla II, on 08 April 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Psyche you cannot compare our laws to the universes.. Basic physics might work here and math too but beyond our solar system things might work differently for that matter i dont even have a clue if any of our laws would work... and in 100 years of our young civilization we will be traveling all over solar system.. maybe sooner...

But if same physics do apply to everything in universe the same way as they do here... than life is 100 per cent out there, and if older than us which would be 100 per cent possible too means that visitatons did happen and advanced life was here... Because we will go the same way in 200 or more years we will be in other solar systems, exploring other planets.

Physics doesnt prove much here... Just because WE are limited to our technology and thinking doesnt mean everything out there is on the same level... We dont know what is out there because our technology isnt good enough ( yet ), but looking at way how we are evolving we will soon be all over the system.


I think you will find every physicist from Einstein to Kaku will disagree with you.  Physics are the same for us as they are for aliens, here is a clip with Professor Kaku saying exactly that. In fact, I wonder how Quantum entanglement would work if physics were not the same across the Universe? I imagine some rather surprising results.

Why would all aliens have to be advanced by comparison to us?

*snip*

Edited by Saru, 09 April 2013 - 09:27 AM.
Removed copyrighted video

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#190    topsecretresearch

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:33 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 08 April 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

I do believe I know more of the world than you do, I have corrected and advised you on many erroneous claims.

I can tell because of the popular culture refrences. A good analogy would be a music novice who's only familiar with popular music.

Case in point:

'psyche101' If you want to go into how credible Dr Mitchell's sources are, and he says himself he has no firsthand knowledge, I would be more than happy to do so, however, you might fid yourself saving quite some time if you just search the thread where Qullius and I have already discussed the subject. As fas as I can tell, Dr MItchell's "Sources" are
  • Some cattle ranchers he grew up with in Roswell
Actually American cattle ranchers are very credible people. Their word is bond. Trust is a big deal in that industry.

'psyche101' I do not believe witnesses were threatened at Roswell. My little sister served in the RAAF

Based on your little sister in the RAAF? :unsure2:  That's laughable. I'd rather rely on what's being reported and what has been confirmed.

Seattle Times: Area 51 vets break silence

Posted Image
James Noce holds a medallion he says was given to him by the CIA at a recent convention in Las Vegas. Reunions of Area 51 veterans used to be clandestine.

He remembers that a local deputy had either witnessed the crash or had quickly arrived at the scene. There also was a family on a vacation car trip who had taken photos.

"We confiscated the camera, took the film out," says Noce. "We just said we worked for the government."

He says the deputy and the family were told not to talk to anybody about the crash, especially the press.

"We told them there would be dire consequences," Noce says. "You scared them."

Sound familiar? This is also reported in UFO harassment cases. It pretty much confirms that that type of activity does occur.

Edited by topsecretresearch, 09 April 2013 - 03:40 AM.


#191    psyche101

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:37 AM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

From what I've seen, Psyche 101 just has that skeptical slant towards anything having to do with UFOs and more specifically any cover-up that the US Govt. has going on for it.  

Yes indeed, because the evidence is lacking. I understand cover up's do happen, I understand that the public is not always well informed, but the evidence for an ET cover up is penned by the media. It has not basis in reality, and as with Dr Mitchell's claims, the deeper you look into them, the more you wish you had not.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

It seems like p101 knows the historical version and cover stories but is unwilling to admit that it seems highly likely that there is a cover-up going on.  

I do not agree with many cover stories, and I respect the Hector Quintanilla's conclusions often require a grain of salt the size of a Mac Truck, but that is not evidence the ET is being covered up, only paranoia leads to that conclusions from there. If you read Quintanilla's reports, and specifically, UFO's, An Airforce Dilemma - LINK, you can see he was jaded with not being listened to, he felt he had decent prosaic explanations, but others just wanted to tear his version apart to push their own views into the limelight - sound familiar??


11. DR. JAMES McDONALD MAKES THE SCENE
McDonald, the Air Force’s Number One Critic is an atmospheric physicist. He confronts  General Cruishank with “evidence” to prove that Project Blue Book was not adequately performing its investigations of UFO’s and scares the General into yet another investigation of  Blue Book. Getting pretty sick of all this, I request a transfer to another job. Background of  my request. The Chief Scientist of the Foreign Technology Division (formerly the Air Force’s  Air Technical Intelligence Center) talks me into staying on a while longer as Chief of Project  Blue Book. Why I agreed to stay. Other aspects of McDonald’s campaign to “beef up” Blue  Book: his Navy-sponsored trip to Australia and the UFO symposium in Congress that he  instigated.


The woo woo crowd got their day in the sun. They failed. Live with it.


View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

I am reminded of the Jim Marrs statement from his book "Alien Agenda" in which he says the UFO topic is subjective and controversial because of the clashing of opposing mindsets.  Simply put, those who believe will not change their opinions on the topic and skeptics will never believe even if mounting circumstantial evidence is right in front of them.  

I have changed my stance on Roswell, just not to little Green Men. You tried to tell me that the USAF report on the Roswell Incident said dummies were dropped in 1947. I proved you wrong, what is your opinion of that? Your circumstantial evidence was trumped by direct evidence. Just how much of the tale do you have wrong, and have yo questioned any claim? Or do you only see them as true and supportive of each other? Because that seems quite a circular trap.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

While I do respect the differing viewpoints and the desire for tangible proof, I do not agree with that mindset personally.

I honestly do not think you understand the mindset you are attempting to describe. It is simply a reflection of believer mentality.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

I could quote p101 again and dissect pieces of his words and offer alternative takes on it but what's the point?  P101 believes what he believes and likewise for myself.  

As I have pointed out, there are 2 types of "believer" And I can most certainly concede to a well rounded argument, or any direct evidence, but that is the problem here isn't it. There is not evidence, and what you call "explanations" I call "excuses". I readily admit I have no explanation for the Portage County, would you be able to admit that you are wrong about Roswell I wonder? Your response would indicate not.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

I am a believer of conspiracies mainly because our government has been guilty of so much disinformation and misleading the masses to suit their own purposes.  And it is not just on the ET and UFO topic.  You can research all kinds of covert government projects and historical events that have very sinister and questionable motives behind them to say the least.  

And they have always been caught out for want of a better word. 60+ Years of UFO conspiracy has produced no more than stories. Some of them very questionable.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

But, back to the topic at hand; Edgar Mitchell and the UFO cover-up theory.  
You have numerous high ranking NASA, FBI, CIA, and even those in the police force that are very credible witnesses that are not prone to making things up and would clearly be able to discern US aircraft from those unidentifiable and unexplained.  

And? They have very individual claims, they do not support each other, the plural of anecdote is not data. It would be only decent of you to acknowledge Edgar Mitchell's own words, quoted on the first page of this thread.


I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will.
--Edgar Mitchell


Please feel free to present any case you feel is solid with regards to proof of ET visitation.


View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

And yes, I'm sure p101 will quote that part

How prophetic of you.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

and have a field day with it because of my previous claim of government cover-up.  

Field day? Is that your conscience considering I have shown you why your claim of Government cover ups make no sense, and you have not been able to offer more than some pressure to keep these other countries in line rubbish? When they are not "kept in line" in any other way?

View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

The difference being that those NASA, FBI, and CIA personnel that went on record with sighting claims were obviously not part of the cover-up.  
These people would have the utmost of integrity and had much more to lose by telling their stories than they would ever gain.

List them, lets see how the claims fare. Which do you find the most convincing? I suggest not to flood the thread, but if you wish to put up one or two names ata time, I would be more than willing to look at any so called proof.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Last but not least, is the quote p101 had about Philip Corso's integrity and honesty being in question.  While there are elements of his story that are farfetched, his credentials are there and he did have a major hand in the military.  

So you feel it is OK if he just lied some of the time, but all the Aliens stuff is true huh?

View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

He was around others much higher in rank who would know these things.  

And where are they?

View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Another thing about Corso's claims that makes me believe in them is that he waited until he was virtually on his deathbed to reveal these things.  

How do you find a deteriorating mind a convincing piece of evidence? I watched my father pass away,


His intentions seemed noble and to inform the people of what is really going on behind the scenes.  


So you admit it is your personal opinion taken from interviews. I suppose you are going to tell me you viewpoint is not biased?


What did this guy possibly have to gain by telling his story?  


Why is is always gain? I watched my father pass with age driven dementia and Alzheimers. It is a natural thing for the body to malfunction as age takes hold.

View Postconspiracy buff, on 08 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Skeptics have never been able to give a convincing answer to that besides the usual about him wanting to gain money from books or interviews.  When you objectively view Corso's claims when combined with those of astronauts like Edgar Mitchell, Gordon Cooper, James McDevitt, etc you have to wonder how much circumstantial evidence is enough to convince even the most skeptical people?  If these people who were actually in space said that aliens and UFO's were out there and that the government is covering it up, I would tend to believe them a helluva lot more than any skeptic with their name calling just because they don't want to see what is right in front of them.  

Absolute codswallop. They have nothing to do with each other.

Corso - Roswell alien crash claims, and has so many discrepancies even the likes of Stanton Friedman wash their hands of him. People who doubt him do so because they know his military claims do not stack up. He cannot lie straight in bed. Corso's book claims they reverse engineered Alien tech for modern household devies remember? Every item he lists has a long history of R & D behind it. Not hard to prove his claims are not on the level.

Edgar Mitchell, as you can see above says himself that he has no personal knowledge, he knows nothing, he has seen nothing, and his information comes from cranks like Bob Lazar and Stephen Greer. How does he support Corso?
Gordon Cooper has a major falling out about Allan Shepherd being chosen over him for Apollo 14. He has motive for getting back at his employers, and his claims canot be verified, how do they support Corso's claims? What is that relation? LINK
James McDivitt is a storm in a teacup. He himself believes that what he saw was a man made object. Debris from missions.

These people "in space" did not claim to see aliens "in space" and that is quite a question in itself. With all the claimed RADAR tracks and so forth, why has no UFO every been recorded as entering or leaving our atmosphere?



Everyone chooses to believe what they want, which is fine.  


Everyone is entitled to their own belief, nobody is entitled to their own facts.

I do not have a problem with belief, if you want to believe, fine, just do not try to tell me, or my kids, that what you have is fact. It is not. There is no proof of ET visitation. The closest we do have is the WOW! signal.


My problem is that most skeptics ridicule those inclined to believe the evidence even when they are being 100% logical and aren't your typical crackpots or crazies.  Because, believe me not every believer is crazy.  


Not every believer is crazy, not every believer is sane. 2 sides to that coin. The people who give "descriptions" as opposed to "conclusions" i.e. "I saw something I cannot recognise" as opposed to "I saw an Alien Spaceship" I will always give the latter little credence, and the former my attention. If a persons mind is made up already, investigation is pointless. I do not see why I should bother wasting time with those "who know" as I think they are largely the crackpots. Thats is where you fall off the bus with skepticism. Skepticism is guided by proof. Proof for ET is sorely lacking, but some feel circumstantial should suffice. However, all circumstantial evidence can offer is what one wants to hear.


That's the way our government has conditioned our culture; to dismiss the believers as being crazy.  


I am an Aussie, I do not even know know anyone in the US Government other than Obama. It's all we hear about down here. And do not try to say the the Aussie Government is involved, they could not find their own behinds with two hands and a roadmap.


Which in and of itself is a child-like mentality and the truth will never be known until all theories can be looked at objectively and either proven or debunked.  


I'd like to know if you can do this. I have not seen evidence of such to date.


I'm willing to believe whatever the evidence will show, which seems to be something skeptics cannot do because of their contrasting mindsets which is sad.  That limits their ability to look at every possibility and examine the issues.


Could you then comment on how you were wrong about the USAF claim about dummies being dropped in 1947 at Roswell then? How are your abilities to examine the evidence?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#192    topsecretresearch

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:32 AM

Here's my impression of Ed Mitchell.

The Noetic science stuff. Debunkers will jump on this but to me it's a sign of intelligence. It's broadenaing one's horizons. There's no disputing Ed Mitchell is a very intelligent person. The original role of science fiction was to get more people into science. Claiming that you are an "atheist" that doesn't believe in aliens doesn't make you a smart person. You could be a close minded person afraid of being percieved as guillible. Not smart.



My impression of Roswell:

A good book about Roswell is by one of the witnesses of the actual crash debris:

LINK: http://www.marceljr.com

Posted Image

Posted Image
  • Early 1990s. Jesse Marcel, JR., and Linda Marcel

He [government official] told me that he had been charged with the responsibility of investigating the operation of a "black government" within the government, where funds were being spent without appropriate oversight to maintain a false story about the Roswell Incident and cover the true story up. He said his job was to report to the Senate Appropriations Committee, and advise them as to where these tax dollars were going.

Posted Image


He [Dick D'Amato (C. Richard D'Amato)] gave me a Capital Building address at which to meet him.

It is known that D'Amato has had private discussions with select researchers where he has detailed that there is a black arm of secrecy over the subject- and that money is being secretly appropriated to projects related to Roswell. D'Amato indicates that he does not know where the wreckage is now, and that it is such a covert project that even with subpoena power he could not penetrate these operations.


So there you have it. The Roswell UFO crash was a bad cover-up of an alien craft. Ed Mitchell is 100% correct.

Edited by topsecretresearch, 09 April 2013 - 04:33 AM.


#193    topsecretresearch

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:54 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 09 April 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

Yes indeed, because the evidence is lacking. I understand cover up's do happen, I understand that the public is not always well informed, but the evidence for an ET cover up is penned by the media. It has not basis in reality, and as with Dr Mitchell's claims, the deeper you look into them, the more you wish you had not.

Isn't this the same person who used his little RAAF sister to dispute harassment claims. :no:  I posted an article (ignored by 'psyche101') confirming that harassment, scare tacticts does occur. This is from the Seattle times. Cover ups do happen.

'psyche101' also mentions the Foreign Technology Division. Earlier (correct me if I'm wrong) he made the silly claim that the US Government who outspends the entire world on defense, even Australia is the US little slave, wouldn't cover-up an ET craft. :w00t: So according to this twisted Aussie from the backwards land down undugh... the AISS is only concerned with crashed Russian satellites. The "Foreign" Technology Division wouldn't bother with the ET stuff. Russia, China, N. Korea, Iran the entire world woud be told about it. Here's a sample for you to analyze and borrow. Don't get too far ahead of us.


#194    psyche101

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:45 AM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 09 April 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

I can tell because of the popular culture refrences. A good analogy would be a music novice who's only familiar with popular music.

I played in bands uyp and down the Est Coast for over a dozen years as well. Any tune you have to sing would be one I have already heard Disco Stu.

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 09 April 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

Case in point:

'psyche101' If you want to go into how credible Dr Mitchell's sources are, and he says himself he has no firsthand knowledge, I would be more than happy to do so, however, you might fid yourself saving quite some time if you just search the thread where Qullius and I have already discussed the subject. As fas as I can tell, Dr MItchell's "Sources" are
  • Some cattle ranchers he grew up with in Roswell
Actually American cattle ranchers are very credible people. Their word is bond. Trust is a big deal in that industry.

'psyche101' I do not believe witnesses were threatened at Roswell. My little sister served in the RAAF

Based on your little sister in the RAAF? :unsure2:  That's laughable. I'd rather rely on what's being reported and what has been confirmed.

Seattle Times: Area 51 vets break silence

Posted Image
James Noce holds a medallion he says was given to him by the CIA at a recent convention in Las Vegas. Reunions of Area 51 veterans used to be clandestine.

He remembers that a local deputy had either witnessed the crash or had quickly arrived at the scene. There also was a family on a vacation car trip who had taken photos.

"We confiscated the camera, took the film out," says Noce. "We just said we worked for the government."

He says the deputy and the family were told not to talk to anybody about the crash, especially the press.

"We told them there would be dire consequences," Noce says. "You scared them."

Sound familiar? This is also reported in UFO harassment cases. It pretty much confirms that that type of activity does occur.

Reported, you mean what the headlines say don't you?

Cattle ranchers are credible are they? All of them are they? Maybe, maybe not, however, you said you believed an astronaut that went to space because he would know, but he does not does he? Some cattle ranchers have a tale to share, and tugged at his sleeve litterally until he gave them his time and presence. That is not an astronaut, you believe some cattle ranchers, don't you? Ed says he knows nothing, but what these people tell me. Even the poor tactic of appeal to authority breaks down. So your reasoning does not hold water.

Do you have the recollections of a first hand account do you? No? So you cannot ask a person firsthand who served in the sensitive position of CISCOMM what transmission might be heard? Can you tell me of someone high up enough to brunch with the PM of your country that you can ask personally? No? But you can cherry pick an article can you? You do not seem to be able to read it in context, that much I have learned.

Noce made the threat. Not Government, not CIA. Noce, a subbie. You have proven that citizens make this crap up. Like I said, I would like to see one of you FTB's walk up to one of these respected people who save your butt in a war situation and make the accusation to their face. In fact, I would pay to see that. Bart Sibrel learned what happens when you spout BS to the people in question.



He says the deputy and the family were told not to talk to anybody about the crash, especially the press.
"We told them there would be dire consequences," Noce says. "You scared them."
As an added incentive, he says, the CIA arrived with a briefcase full of cash.
"I think it was like 25 grand apiece, for the sheriff and the family," says Noce.


Try reading the full context to avoid such basic mistakes in the future.

Posted Image



Edited by psyche101, 09 April 2013 - 06:07 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#195    psyche101

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:00 AM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 09 April 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

Isn't this the same person who used his little RAAF sister to dispute harassment claims. :no:  

Yes, the very same who held a relative in a sensitive position in the very institution you are trying to explain to me with hearsay and newspapers.


By "the more you look, the more you wish you had not" I was referring to seeing how poor Ed Mitchell's sources are. I am sad to see such an accomplished person can be taken in by the worst UFOlogy has to offer.

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 09 April 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

I posted an article (ignored by 'psyche101') confirming that harassment, scare tacticts does occur. This is from the Seattle times. Cover ups do happen.


Ignored? Why do you think I am at your beck and call? If you place time limits on responses, you will be disappointed regularly. I have a life, I do not sit behind a screen all day like you must do whilst you accuse others of doing so.


You posted an article that said a subcontractor took the liberty to scare people himself. That is not the Government at all. All you did illustrate is that you do not read your own articles. Yes cover ups happen, and they tend to get exposed to. So what? You seem to think that because the Government has had to deploy national security that they are hiding ET's? And you are attempting to (bit failing) pick on my logic???????? Your not only bad at this, but a bit of a hypocrite.

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 09 April 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

'psyche101' also mentions the Foreign Technology Division. Earlier (correct me if I'm wrong) he made the silly claim that the US Government who outspends the entire world on defense, even Australia is the US little slave, wouldn't cover-up an ET craft. :w00t: So according to this twisted Aussie from the backwards land down undugh... the AISS is only concerned with crashed Russian satellites. The "Foreign" Technology Division wouldn't bother with the ET stuff. Russia, China, N. Korea, Iran the entire world woud be told about it. Here's a sample for you to analyze and borrow. Don't get too far ahead of us.

Yeah you are wrong. Nothing new there.

And you feel picking on my country is going to win the debate for you? Small minds are amused by small things I guess.

The FTD and the AISS (long disbanded) have no jurisdiction on foreign ground.

Here are 2 samples of the work done by the FTD, Good God man, you have got to be kidding yourself? What's next? Richard Dotty?

Link 1

Which leads us to:

A REFINED THEORY OF ANISOTROPIC SHELLS


and

Link 2


TEST STAND OF OSCILLATIONS OF TURBIN ROTORS
IN BEARINGS WITH GAS HYDRODYNAMIC LUBRICATION

Are you serious?

Ohh, yeah, and if you want to speak Russian Satellites, go right ahead, I am sure Jim Oberg, who just happens to be an expert in this very subject can accomodate any question you can possibly come up with.

Knock yourself out. You are yet to make a dent so far.

Edited by psyche101, 09 April 2013 - 06:02 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who




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