Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Are Children Basically Bad


  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#16    Beany

Beany

    Government Agent

  • 3,293 posts
  • Joined:26 Jul 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California

  • If music is the most universal language just think of me as one whole note. Nikki Giovanni

Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:57 PM

View PostRocketgirl, on 07 March 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

You might not have taught your children to be good directly, but they learned how to be good from watching you do good things. That's where they learned it from.

Thanks for saying that.


#17    J. K.

J. K.

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,551 posts
  • Joined:09 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth, TX

Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:17 PM

Having raised an autistic child, I would agree that children are born neutral and learn behavior from observation.  However, they also are born self-centered, but not necessarily selfish.  It takes a while for them to develop the ability to recognize that other individuals have a point-of-view.  Their ability to empathize has to grow and be nurtured.

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#18    Sherapy

Sherapy

    Sheri loves Sean loves Sheri...

  • Member
  • 21,940 posts
  • Joined:14 Jun 2005
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:At the Beach-- San Pedro, California

  • Dysfunctional you can fix, ******** can't be.

Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:34 PM

View PostIamsSon, on 07 March 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

I don't think humans are inherently bad, just inherently self-centered.

While it is true people will be self centered at times in the course of their life-- when you are talking about being "self centered" in child developmental terms-- it really means egocentric (which means that during the maturity process one cannot see things from other points of view/perspectives.) Basically, a child's brain can only perceive in states(their own,now) as opposed to alternatives(they do not understand yet that there are other ways to perceive things) If this persists in an adult  we call this a fixed mindset. and this definitely can impede someone. A child will begin to become less egocentric between 2-7 years old ( prior to this the child assumes that everyone else sees, feels, hears exactly the same as him/her,(Piaget called this the pre operational stage.)




#19    Sherapy

Sherapy

    Sheri loves Sean loves Sheri...

  • Member
  • 21,940 posts
  • Joined:14 Jun 2005
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:At the Beach-- San Pedro, California

  • Dysfunctional you can fix, ******** can't be.

Posted 07 March 2013 - 07:59 PM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 07 March 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

I was surfing on Youtube and happened on a clip of the old Jack Parr show with Billy Graham. At one point Mr. Graham said, “You don’t have to teach a child to be bad, you teach a child to be good.”

I had to push the pause button at that moment. My question is why do human beings need to be taught to be moral (if indeed they do)? Are we basically malicious creatures from childhood? Could a society without moral instruction become moral by itself?

If you’ve ever seen the movie, “Lord of the Flies” or read the book you’ll know what I’m getting at. I know this is an old question, but I'd be interested in your comments.

It seems you came across an early influence of child rearing perspectives, prior to English Christian influence of child rearing there was no interest in child development.The Sunday School movement kick started the ideology of what you see in the you tube video. This movement basically taught that children were born evil (original sin) and in need of having this evil extracted from them.This gave rise to religious education and harsh discipline. On one hand for it's day it was the first time children became significant and education was encouraged (religious of course.) On the other hand as early as the pre empirical stage of child development it had serious problems and Philosophers such as Locke and Rousseau challenged it's effectiveness. Fast forward to present day and we have evolved our world views to what we have now which is contemporary diversity. There have been six major shifts in child development theories which can be evidenced within culture today.

"Historically, the term family diversity referred to variations from a traditional family. This implied that there was one best type of family, and that all other family types were dysfunctional and deviant. In a more contemporary view, family diversity refers to a broad range of characteristics or dimensions on which families vary, along with a recognition that there are a multitude of different family types that function effectively. Family diversity thus refers to variations along structural or demographic dimensions (e.g., race/ethnicity, socioeconomic status), as well as in family processes (e.g., communication and parenting behaviors)" (Eeden-Moorefield & Demo, 2007).

http://workfamily.sa...ity-definitions


Kohlberg is the go to for morality inquiries.


http://www.indiana.e...4/Kohlberg.html




#20    Rocketgirl

Rocketgirl

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 748 posts
  • Joined:06 Sep 2009
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Earth

  • "I envy the dead for they do not have to see how the world is changing for the worst."
    -Rocketgirl

Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:14 PM

View PostBeany, on 07 March 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:



Thanks for saying that.

You're welcome

"I envy the dead for they do not have to see how the world is changing for the worst."
-Rocketgirl

"Try to change the world for the better, if you fail keep trying. Always aim for that impact of change in a positive way."
-Rocketgirl

#21    ReaperS_ParadoX

ReaperS_ParadoX

    Whats wrong with accepting madness?

  • Member
  • 2,521 posts
  • Joined:29 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A really cold region devoid of stars

  • The boundaries which divide Life from Death are at best shadowy and vague. Who shall say where the one ends, and where the other begins?

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:17 PM

But a child that doesnt have a conscience wouldnt be able to feel for others the pain there inflicting so what then? I mean sociopaths arent born as adults there children first. So what would you do in that situation? BTW I dont have kids

COME WITH ME. OVERWHELMING POWER AND MADNESS AWAIT

THAT IS NOT DEAD WHICH CAN ETERNAL LIE AND WITH STRANGE AEONS EVEN DEATH MAY DIE

#22    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 14,260 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:34 PM

You hit the nail right on, and even if the kid isn't a sociopath, but still has some tendencies in his nature that are unacceptable, what do you do?  Good training can try to alter it, but it probably won't.


#23    Tutankhaten-pasheri

Tutankhaten-pasheri

    Buratinologist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,637 posts
  • Joined:22 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:страна дураков

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:49 PM

I think children are certainly not born evil in any way, simply a blank canvass upon which our parents paint a picture.  Mental illness aside, we all are normal and wish to be treated well, and we know that we should treat others as we wish to be treated. In Lord of the Flies I thought Golding was not really writing a story about children at all, but it was about adult society. I cannot see children of the age depicted in the story becoming bloodthirsty savages. Certainly they will not be saints, but I do not believe for a moment that they will kill each other. To me, the problems with children growing up bad are the result of bad parents. It is a sort of chicken and egg situation, for bad parents make, generally, bad children who in turn create more bad children. It is like a disease, but how to stop it.....


#24    Queen in the North

Queen in the North

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 6,509 posts
  • Joined:04 May 2008
  • Gender:Female

  • We're more Ceefax people.

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:36 PM

Sometimes I think children seem bad, because they are pushing the boundaries to see how far they can go, or how much they can get away with. But that helps to define the line, so that they know how far they can go and what is acceptable and what isn't...

Posted Image

#25    ealdwita

ealdwita

    Hwt oredmcg

  • Member
  • 4,840 posts
  • Joined:08 Jun 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:astcentingas , England

  • Hige sceal e heardra, heorte e cenre, mod sceal e mare, e ure mgen lytla.

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:42 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 08 March 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

I think children are certainly not born evil in any way, simply a blank canvass upon which our parents paint a picture.  

"Give me the child for seven years and I will give you the man."

(St. Ignatius of Loyola, the founder of the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) or St. Francis Xavier, first missionary to India who assisted Ignatius in the formation of the Jesuits.)

Edited by ealdwita, 08 March 2013 - 07:42 PM.

"Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel, ac gecnáwan þín gefá!": "Fate goes ever as she shall, but know thine enemy!".
I can teach you with a quip, if I've a mind; I can trick you into learning with a laugh; Oh, winnow all my folly and you'll find, A grain or two of truth among the chaff!
(The Yeoman of the Guard ~ Gilbert and Sullivan)

#26    ReaperS_ParadoX

ReaperS_ParadoX

    Whats wrong with accepting madness?

  • Member
  • 2,521 posts
  • Joined:29 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A really cold region devoid of stars

  • The boundaries which divide Life from Death are at best shadowy and vague. Who shall say where the one ends, and where the other begins?

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:05 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 08 March 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

You hit the nail right on, and even if the kid isn't a sociopath, but still has some tendencies in his nature that are unacceptable, what do you do?  Good training can try to alter it, but it probably won't.
Thats just it, how do you teach someone without a conscience whats wrong or right. they dont have that switch that can identify with other people so I think the best you could do in that situation is tell them the consequencs of such actions and how much they would suffer If they carried out such things that most of society would frown upon

Edited by R4z3rsPar4d0x, 08 March 2013 - 08:14 PM.

COME WITH ME. OVERWHELMING POWER AND MADNESS AWAIT

THAT IS NOT DEAD WHICH CAN ETERNAL LIE AND WITH STRANGE AEONS EVEN DEATH MAY DIE

#27    ealdwita

ealdwita

    Hwt oredmcg

  • Member
  • 4,840 posts
  • Joined:08 Jun 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:astcentingas , England

  • Hige sceal e heardra, heorte e cenre, mod sceal e mare, e ure mgen lytla.

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:11 PM

View PostR4z3rsPar4d0x, on 08 March 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

Thats just it, how do you teach someone without a conscience whats wrong or right.

You don't. If the public at large are in any significant danger, you isolate them.

"Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel, ac gecnáwan þín gefá!": "Fate goes ever as she shall, but know thine enemy!".
I can teach you with a quip, if I've a mind; I can trick you into learning with a laugh; Oh, winnow all my folly and you'll find, A grain or two of truth among the chaff!
(The Yeoman of the Guard ~ Gilbert and Sullivan)

#28    StarMountainKid

StarMountainKid

    Cheese

  • Member
  • 4,046 posts
  • Joined:17 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Star Mountain, Corporate States of America

  • We have problems because we stray from what is innocent and pure.

Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:39 AM

ealdwita said:

"Give me the child for seven years and I will give you the man."

(St. Ignatius of Loyola, the founder of the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) or St. Francis Xavier, first missionary to India who assisted Ignatius in the formation of the Jesuits.)

Adolf Hitler also said this. I think it is easier to raise a child to be a monster than to raise a child to be a saint.

As for the "Lord of the Flies" argument, I also think in this situation it would be more likely for a child society to disintegrate into some level of barbarism than for it to self-organize into some kind of utopia.

I don't think we are born bad, but every child is born with a different personality, some tending to be more anti-social than others. Do we ever experience children naturally being so good we have to teach them some ruthlessness so they can succeed in this dog eat dog world?

Edited by StarMountainKid, 09 March 2013 - 12:52 AM.

The acceptance of authority does not lead to intelligence.
A mind untouched by thought...the end of knowledge.
My credentials: http://www.unexplain...ic=87935&st=225

#29    MissMelsWell

MissMelsWell

    Cosmic Baker

  • Member
  • 13,222 posts
  • Joined:12 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Pacific Northwest

Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:55 PM

Children aren't basically bad... they are basically inexperienced. Huge difference.

"It's time for the American people to stand up and shrug off the shackles of our government at TSA at the airport"  Ron Paul

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

#30    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 14,260 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:10 PM

I would like to take a moment to disagree with the "blank slate" theory of children.  Children are born with a lot of instincts and personality already in place, although it usually takes time to manifest itself, both good and bad.

Parents who do their best and have it turn out badly do not need to blame themselves.  It may be the child's nature that overcomes the best possible nuturing.  Also of course there are many other factors besides the family that complicate the child's upbringing.

I raised a number of adopted children (my wife and I were unable to conceive), and some of them had had really rough infancies (because of war).  Even though we are a literate family with lots of books and so on around, and in spite of a lot of effort and special schools, two of our children remained illiterate -- and Vietnamese is an easier language to learn to read than English.  They are both happy and productive adults, but it is still something hard to accept or even understand.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users