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Teachers to wear guns in South Dakota

governor dennis daugaard teachers guns school

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#46    AsteroidX

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:05 AM

Quote

I've worked with a former professional cheerleader who became a teacher.

Didnt she get in some hot water..or am I thinking of a different cheerleader turned teacher


#47    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:12 AM

View PostSakari, on 10 March 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

Lucky kids.......
They were five, they didn't really notice.
The male staff members OTOH ...

View PostAsteroidX, on 10 March 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

Didnt she get in some hot water..or am I thinking of a different cheerleader turned teacher
I seriously doubt we're talking the same cheerleader - I'm in Oz for starters.

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#48    Shayde

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 06:53 AM

Well, I hope that this idea works.  And that we don't get any reports about a school employee going postal.  However, a point that's not been clarified does irk slightly. In order for this policy to be effective, are the teacher/ janitor/ whatever appointed firearm carrier/ going to carry their weapon concealed or openly? I ask because if this policy is to be a deterrent, and yes, it'll depend on the local school board, then perhaps having the weapon secured until use has to be raised as a matter of form.  And even then, and yes this next bit is more to do with the culture of firearms in the US, would it be readily accepted to see not only police carrying sidearms but also Miss Simpkon's also armed as she teaches a class?


#49    Frank Merton

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 07:11 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 09 March 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Guns are an indirect problem to other issues such as inner city family values lack of education and lack of respect for life and property. Inner cities account for the majority of crime. Guns have been around in good times and bad.
So if guns were limited as you'd like, how do you suppose they'd be around when they're necessary? Exactly. They won't. That's why we like to have them, if we want we are able to, at any given time that we need. You never know when they'll be necessary.
I think having a gun around is far more likely to make any problem worse than to help.  It is simply ego gratification to think you can protect yourself that way; criminals are far more experienced with violence than you are so that the presence of a gun is likely to do nothing more than infuriate the criminal and get you killed.

Further, guns greatly increase the chance of accidental killing, a suicide at a moment of despair when the absence of a gun would provide a chance for the despair to pass, a murder in a moment of extreme anger when again the absence of a gun would provide some time for the anger to pass.

Edited by Frank Merton, 10 March 2013 - 07:12 AM.


#50    aztek

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:17 PM

that is dumb, how would an armed teacher made things even worst, that they were at sandy hook????  or any other school that has such shooting.

criminal are more experienced with violence than you, is even dumber,  so that means we just roll over, and let them violate us, and not try to protect ourselves.?????

criminal would back off in 99% cases if potential victim is armed, it happens in real world all the time, but sheep's have no ability to see it.

it only takes one assault\rape\robbery to turn a gun hatter into a gun lover, that too happens quite often, but guess some need to feel it themselves. oh well, their choice.

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#51    Thanato

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

View Postaztek, on 10 March 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

that is dumb, how would an armed teacher made things even worst, that they were at sandy hook????  or any other school that has such shooting.

Well it would introduce a second element to an already dangerous situation. And unpredictable element who is just as likely to harm innocent people as it is to save lives. Remember in this kind of high stress fight for your life situation normal thinking goes out the window, Many people react with out thinking. Which results in 'friendly fire'. If you know there is a school shooting, you are armed, hopped up on adrenaline, and have tunnel vision, you will more then likely try and shoot anyone who tries to enter your room, be they a student, staff member, or gunman.

It also exposes the police to multiple armed personnel and if they have to breach the school (which is likely) they will be more likely in the habit of shoot first sort out the wounded later.

Quote

criminal are more experienced with violence than you, is even dumber,  so that means we just roll over, and let them violate us, and not try to protect ourselves.?????

In this case the person is here for one reason, to invoke deadly violence, this isn't a mugger on the street. This is a person with a plan. They know they arn't going to live but they don't care. They are not mentally healthy.

Quote

criminal would back off in 99% cases if potential victim is armed, it happens in real world all the time, but sheep's have no ability to see it.

Unless that criminal doesn't care about his well being.

Quote

it only takes one assault\rape\robbery to turn a gun hatter into a gun lover, that too happens quite often, but guess some need to feel it themselves. oh well, their choice.


I believe in gun control, I do not believe everyone should have access to firearms nor do I believe certain firearms should be allowed in the publics hands. I do not believe in concealed carry because I know it introduces an unstable element into society. Am I anti gun? Nope, I use guns on a regular basis and am currently getting my gun licenses.

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#52    Frank Merton

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:40 PM

It may be that unusual incidents by lunatics brings about calls for gun control legislation from politicians who are always under pressure to "do something" about every thing that goes wrong.

It is perhaps better to sit back and look at the overall logic.  The logic of guns in urban areas seems to be a feeling of safety they give some people.  That this is a mistake and largely ego has already been pointed out.  Situations where guns are present are inherently vastly more dangerous and more likely to result in a death.

My view then is that smart people just will not have them around, regardless of the law.  We protect ourselves with rational measures that won't make crises even worse.


#53    and then

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:41 PM

View PostStellar, on 09 March 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Absurd? The whole topic is absurd! The gun registration does much more than that! It ensures that people do not sell their guns to those that should not have them! It keeps people accountable for their actions! If you don't report a stolen gun: you are accountable. If you skip the background checks and sell a gun to a criminal? You are accountable! The ATF themselves say that a huge number of the guns making it to the black market come from the same 1% of dealers that feed it for a quick buck. A registration would stop that quick. Your worry of the government imposing sanctions on you "at some point" is preventing you from taking the necessary steps to reduce gun violence at *this* point.
You made a silly, ABSURD, statement about arming children.  The inference is that South Dakotans are idiots I guess.  You either do not "get" it or are so wrapped up in anti gun bias you don't care.  I am NOT RESPONSIBLE for every act with every gun (or knife or baseball bat) that another American decides to use to kill an innocent person with.  To penalize me now or in the future - even in the slightest way - is wrong and I will not accept it based on the need of a stupid - or sinister - politician looking for votes or a weak minded public opinion in the US OR elsewhere who do not own, have no desire to own and probably are secretly afraid to even handle.... a gun.  I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE for the crimes and sins of others and I will never bow to a government that wants to say I am.  Even less to the opinions of someone not even a citizen here.

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#54    and then

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:59 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 10 March 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

It may be that unusual incidents by lunatics brings about calls for gun control legislation from politicians who are always under pressure to "do something" about every thing that goes wrong.

It is perhaps better to sit back and look at the overall logic.  The logic of guns in urban areas seems to be a feeling of safety they give some people.  That this is a mistake and largely ego has already been pointed out.  Situations where guns are present are inherently vastly more dangerous and more likely to result in a death.

My view then is that smart people just will not have them around, regardless of the law.  We protect ourselves with rational measures that won't make crises even worse.
Agreed, Frank, but the problem in America - and it CAN be a problem - is that one need not be smart to have the right to own.  We are working from a situation where guns are so ubiquitous that it is impossible to really remove them.  Impossible is a strong word and I used it intentionally and correctly in this situation.  We are a free nation and we suffer the consequences of that as well as sharing the benefits.  I grew up here in the '60s and '70s and no shootings like SandyHook were ever heard of.  There are dozens of potential causes for this madness and focusing on removing a gun from the hand of law abiding citizens is just a weak, lazy attempt to solve a problem that I think we KNOW exists due to our worsening moral condition.  The problem is the deterioration of our culture and values.  TV, movies, music, gaming and yes, the internet, all have made us more prone to live in a virtual world where we have no strong ties to real people outside our own families.  The real has become the alien - and you know what we tend to want to do to that which we don't understand.....   There are no magic wands.  Guns are here to stay and I'll be damned if I'll allow someone else's fear of a simple tool to deprive me of my right to own and use it.  I killed no children last December.  I never have nor ever will kill anyone with my shotgun or handgun who isn't ACTIVELY trying to kill me first.  The same can be said of well over 99% of gun owners here in the US.  If people were blaming one of those other causes I mentioned earlier, gaming for example, I wonder what kind of hue and cry would result?  And they would raise hell over it to protect their right to do in the virtual world what the Sandy Hook guy did in the real one.

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#55    Stellar

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:00 PM

View Postand then, on 10 March 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

You made a silly, ABSURD, statement about arming children.  

I did. It was in response to the absurd logic that everyone needs to arm themselves in order to be safe---that everyone needs a gun because you can never be sure that help would be near enough to save you. Would this not be a logical extension of that same argument then?

Quote

  I am NOT RESPONSIBLE for every act with every gun (or knife or baseball bat) that another American decides to use to kill an innocent person with.  To penalize me now or in the future - even in the slightest way - is wrong and I will not accept it based on the need of a stupid - or sinister - politician looking for votes or a weak minded public opinion in the US OR elsewhere who do not own, have no desire to own and probably are secretly afraid to even handle.... a gun.  I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE for the crimes and sins of others and I will never bow to a government that wants to say I am.  Even less to the opinions of someone not even a citizen here.

Gun control does not mean you are punished. Apparently that's the one issue that people don't "get".

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#56    aztek

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 05:03 PM

View PostThanato, on 10 March 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

Well it would introduce a second element to an already dangerous situation. And unpredictable element who is just as likely to harm innocent people as it is to save lives. Remember in this kind of high stress fight for your life situation normal thinking goes out the window, Many people react with out thinking. Which results in 'friendly fire'. If you know there is a school shooting, you are armed, hopped up on adrenaline, and have tunnel vision, you will more then likely try and shoot anyone who tries to enter your room, be they a student, staff member, or gunman.

It also exposes the police to multiple armed personnel and if they have to breach the school (which is likely) they will be more likely in the habit of shoot first sort out the wounded later.



In this case the person is here for one reason, to invoke deadly violence, this isn't a mugger on the street. This is a person with a plan. They know they arn't going to live but they don't care. They are not mentally healthy.



Unless that criminal doesn't care about his well being.

[size=4]

I believe in gun control, I do not believe everyone should have access to firearms nor do I believe certain firearms should be allowed in the publics hands. I do not believe in concealed carry because I know it introduces an unstable element into society. Am I anti gun? Nope, I use guns on a regular basis and am currently getting my gun licenses.

~Thanato

all theories , we hear all the time "if everyone carried guns, we would have bloodshed on the streets" yet where guns are carried all the time, crime is lower than in states where ppl don't carry. and no bloodsheds, that is a fact.

thousands of ppl protect themselves with guns, and as a result they don't get robbed, rapped, or killed, we have a member here who experienced it first hand. so again your theories, not facts.

and yes you are antigun, pretty much said it your self. i'm pretty sure you don't put yourself among those ppl that you believe should not have guns.

and as reality proves, 99% criminals do care about their well being. and also i could not care less what crooks care about, i care about my safety.

the reality proves all your theories wrong.  that is all i need to know.  good luck selling snake oil, lol.

Edited by aztek, 10 March 2013 - 05:18 PM.

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#57    Sakari

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 06:01 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 10 March 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

I think having a gun around is far more likely to make any problem worse than to help.  It is simply ego gratification to think you can protect yourself that way; criminals are far more experienced with violence than you are so that the presence of a gun is likely to do nothing more than infuriate the criminal and get you killed.

Further, guns greatly increase the chance of accidental killing, a suicide at a moment of despair when the absence of a gun would provide a chance for the despair to pass, a murder in a moment of extreme anger when again the absence of a gun would provide some time for the anger to pass.



I highly suggest you watch, and listen to this entire thing.......That is for everyone. This is back during the brady bill trials.....People never learn from our past.

After you watch, and listen, I am curious if you feel the same about your theories.





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#58    AsteroidX

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 06:07 PM

Ive watched this enough times now I know her story by heart. Shes come a long way since those early days standing up in a Congressional hearing. +1


#59    pallidin

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 06:38 PM

Well, I'm glad you cleared that up, Stellar.
Humor to make a point. OK. I get it now, but not back then. My bad.

I was begining to seriously worry about you. All's good now.

Anyway, I agree with nearly everyone here. Allowing arming of untrained, non-psychologically tested teachers is a bad idea.

Too much could go wrong.


#60    skookum

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 07:09 PM

More guns to solve a problem of having too many people with guns.  Cuckoo!!!

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