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Shape-Shifting Jesus in Ancient Egyptian Text

jesus shape-shifting coptic language text ancient

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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:28 PM

A newly deciphered Egyptian text, dating back almost 1,200 years, tells part of the crucifixion story of Jesus with apocryphal plot twists, some of which have never been seen before.


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#2    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:40 PM

Well that could mean that all those depicitions of a white Jesus aren't as incorrect as they seem!

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

You may think you're cool, but you'll never be as cool as Peter Capaldi with an electric guitar, on a tank, playing the Doctor Who theme.

#3    third_eye


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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:46 PM

I always knew he had the decency in him to have married Mary ..... what would the neighbors have said ....  them going about like that all over like that

He who postpones the hour of living rightly ... is like the rustic who waits for the river to run out ... before he crosses.
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#4    Eldorado



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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:54 PM

...and He's been shape-shifting into a slice of toast etc ever since.

(only kidding, God)

Edited by Eldorado, 12 March 2013 - 08:55 PM.

#5    eight bits

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:09 AM

Another signature ridiculous headline thread. This one's worth writing about, because retrojecting horror movie cliches onto Jesus and Christians ("Zombie Jesus," "Cannibal Catholics") is so pernicious as "religious discussion."

Owen Jarus is a known "popularizer" (less charitably called "spin doctor," and there are less charitable names than that) of serious scholarship he has little or no clue about,


As even Jarus feebly grasps, the scriptural idea is not that Jesus changes shape, but rather that different people see Jesus differently on different occasions. Although Origen's Contra Celsum (Book II, short chapter 64) mentions the idea, its source is the ordinary canonical scriptures.

Incidents of seeing Jesus differently abound in the canon. The most dramatic is the Transfiguration, found in all three synoptics. The post-resurrection personal appearances also feature incidents of Jesus going unrecognized by close associates, including the dramatic paired recognition scenes of John 20, Mary Magdalene's (where the initial failure to recognize is explicit) and Thomas' (where it is bundled in with an examination of the wounds - why? If the wounds had healed, Thomas couldn't recognize the man before him as the one who was killed?)

Put aside that the recognition scene was a staple of ancient storytelling, and that to have a recognition scene, you must first have a failure to recognize. In real life, the comic-book "superpower" of looking differently is granted to an entire profession of natural men and women, actors, and is a charism much valued by them.

For instance, there is a legend that Spencer Tracy managed the title-transformation between Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde without makeup. The example is interesting, because it is not entirely true. If you watch the classic 1941 film, you can see that it a makeup effect... in part.


It is attested that Tracy did strive to minimze the makeup aspect of the transformation. It is also attested that the degree of his success varied for different observers. Somerset Maugham, for example, supposedly couldn't tell the two Tracies apart when he visited the filming one day and only that day, although those on the set working closely with Tracy could - think about what that says about how the "superpower" actually works.

Bottom line: there is no "shape sifting" Jesus in any Christian tradition, there is no "zombie Jesus" either, and there are no Catholic weekly "cannibals." What there is here is a hack "free-lance" writer padding out his clippings file with lurid BS.

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#6    McFakename



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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:59 PM

Because shape shifting is the only part of the story of Jesus that doesn't make sense...

#7    highdesert50


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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:00 PM

If you will pardon me, but, do you believe everything you read on the internet?

#8    ancient astronaut

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:38 PM

So, He was a werewolf wizard???

#9    Chooky88



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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:44 PM

Well it is further evidence that Jesus was an actual physical being. Personally I believe he is the son of god. However it is nice to have further references from the time he lived which are outside the bible which was written long after his death and has been continually edited since.

Well it is further evidence that Jesus was an actual physical being. Personally I believe he is the son of god. However it is nice to have further references from the time he lived which are outside the bible which was written long after his death and has been continually edited since.

#10    ExoPaul


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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:09 PM

I love the fact that the researchers believe this version of events cant possibly be true because people back then would not fully understand the story of what happened....... as if the current known 2000 year old story is somehow factual?!?

#11    marcos anthony toledo

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:38 PM

The people in the past cooked the books as if they don't do it now and they couldn't think straight pathetic excuses when our scholars don't like that that disagree with their beliefs.

#12    harleyblueswoman


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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:55 PM

I would say more proof that Jesus was not of this world...

#13    Sundew



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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:46 PM

The text in question is supposed to be 1200 years old. The Gospel narratives found in the Bible are first century A.D. I would put much more credence in them. If you do not consider them to be the Words of God, than at least realize they occurred much closer to the actual events.

While I do not believe that Jesus was a "shape shifter" it is interesting that after His resurrection various men and women did not recognize him until he revealed Himself to them. This could be because they saw Him die and were overcome with grief, of because He somehow prevented them from recognition. In another even he walked right through a crowd who was intent on stoning Him, how is uncertain. Perhaps it was no more than the force of His personality, we may never know.

Then there is the Mount of Transfiguration, when His entire appearance changed shortly before the Crucifixion.

A more difficult thing to understand is how Jesus appeared inside a house with the doors and windows locked after His resurrection. There are various scientific theories as to the number of dimension that exist, some think 10, others an infinite number. But if you believe in a transcendent omnipotent God, then He by definition must exist in all possible dimensions. It might be a simple matter to change from one to another and back again and suddenly appear to be elsewhere. A bit like a three-dimentional object moving through the 2D world of Flatland (if you are not familiar with Flatland, Google it.)

#14    Paranoid Android

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 06:03 PM

While this certainly tells us nothing of the historical Jesus (being written, or at least dated, 800 years after Jesus' existence), it does tell us much about the Christian movement (at least one sect of it) in the Egyptian area of the 9th Century AD.  Of particular note is the day of Jesus' arrest as Tuesday, rather than Thursday.  It has always been my view that Jesus was arrested on Tuesday, and that the Thursday arrest was simply based on the celebration to pagan fertility rites, which Christianity appropriated in order to appeal to pagan audiences.  This document may reflect a world which had not yet fully accepted the assimilation of pagan traditions into Christianity and thus more closely resemble the biblical accounts, which suggest Jesus as crucified on Wednesday.

The idea of Jesus as a "shape shifter", as 8bits helpfully informed me, appears more to be a case that different people see him differently at different times, rather than the headline stealer of this article.  Now this doesn't really resemble the biblical Jesus while he was alive, but it does bear some similarity to the Jesus post-resurrection, the one to whom people had entire conversations with before suddenly realising who he was.  So this text, if accurate, may represent a non-traditional (read "heretical") sect of 9th Century Christians who somewhat blurred the distinction between the pre and post-resurrection Jesus narratives - I'm sure they existed.  Certainly it is historically possible, considering the Church did not hold domineering control over 9th Century Egypt the way later Christianity did in other parts of the world (post-10th Century Europe, for example).

Just some food for thought, in any case :)

~ PA

Edited by Paranoid Android, 13 March 2013 - 06:21 PM.

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#15    rusting


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Posted 13 March 2013 - 06:41 PM

View PostChooky88, on 13 March 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Well it is further evidence that Jesus was an actual physical being. Personally I believe he is the son of god. However it is nice to have further references from the time he lived which are outside the bible which was written long after his death and has been continually edited since.

Jesus was supposedly born before 1 A.D...this text is around 1200 years old..so approximately around 800 A.D (even if we assume the guy in whose name it is written is true..then it is still 400 years later)..It is like me writing something on Robin Hood and a few centuries later someone finds the text and claims that it is proof that Robin Hood was an actual physical being.

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