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Where Did God Come From?


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#16    The Id3al Experience

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:50 PM

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 14 March 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

Actually you didn't break my logic, rather, you supported it. My point exactly is that nothingness doesn't exist. Only God does.

The reason why I say this means nothing is everything, is because based on my logic, due to nothingness possessing a property, it is something. Due to infinity meaning all possibilities, that something of which it is is everything.

As for the finite amount of possibilities argument, I happen to disagree. Things may be finite in this physical universe due to it's empirical laws, however outside the laws of this universe, everything does become possible. Therefore my original stance.

You said, nothingness exsits for a fact. Something is not nothingness, so giving nothingness a property makes it something, therefore nolonger nothingness and therefore doesnt exist. So based on that, its a fact that nothingness doesnt exist. (as you say)

No infinty isnt all possibilities. Iv stated that infinity is something without a limit. So infinite possibilities YES, but infinity doesnt MEAN all possibilities.

Everything outside of this universe, will abid by the laws of its universe, making all possibilities again impossiable. But one could go further to say that there is an infinite amount of universes therefore all possibilities are catered for in each personal universe.

But going one step further, one could still agrue that all possibilities is still impossible because ALL represents a whole, and you cannot have a whole in infinty (as there is no limit)

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#17    Royal

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:13 PM

Everything is not possible, like Steve Martin said in the 70's " It's impossible to put a cadillac up you're nose, it's just impossible".

Edited by Royal, 14 March 2013 - 10:15 PM.

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#18    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:16 PM

View PostThe Id3al Experience, on 14 March 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

You said, nothingness exsits for a fact. Something is not nothingness, so giving nothingness a property makes it something, therefore nolonger nothingness and therefore doesnt exist. So based on that, its a fact that nothingness doesnt exist. (as you say)

No infinty isnt all possibilities. Iv stated that infinity is something without a limit. So infinite possibilities YES, but infinity doesnt MEAN all possibilities.

Everything outside of this universe, will abid by the laws of its universe, making all possibilities again impossiable. But one could go further to say that there is an infinite amount of universes therefore all possibilities are catered for in each personal universe.

But going one step further, one could still agrue that all possibilities is still impossible because ALL represents a whole, and you cannot have a whole in infinty (as there is no limit)

You're assuming the outside of the universe (nothing) actually has laws, which it doesn't. Who said there are laws beyond this universe? Better yet that there are other universes like you suggest. Actually, who or what possible answer could you even give to where the laws of our own universe came from? There is no evidence or answers to any of that.

As for nothingness, it is a fact it exists, an it's incarnation is God. I might have to tweak it a little for clarification (tis a difficult subjuct to understand) however so far I'm quite convinced that my logic is sound. If not then please tell me otherwise, because I've yet to hear any real refute.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#19    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:23 PM

View PostRoyal, on 14 March 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

Everything is not possible, like Steve Martin said in the 70's " It's impossible to put a cadillac up you're nose, it's just impossible".

In the laws of this universe, yes, it is impossible. As for an existance without laws, anything by definition becomes possible.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#20    The Id3al Experience

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:56 PM

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 14 March 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

You're assuming the outside of the universe (nothing) actually has laws, which it doesn't. Who said there are laws beyond this universe? Better yet that there are other universes like you suggest. Actually, who or what possible answer could you even give to where the laws of our own universe came from? There is no evidence or answers to any of that.

As for nothingness, it is a fact it exists, an it's incarnation is God. I might have to tweak it a little for clarification (tis a difficult subjuct to understand) however so far I'm quite convinced that my logic is sound. If not then please tell me otherwise, because I've yet to hear any real refute.

You are assume that there are no laws outside our universe. If you are going to start talking evidence as you say I lack, Please provide me evidence that there is no laws outside our own universe. Ill be waiting :)

We are both in the same boat, we are unable to provide the evidence that laws either exsit or don't exist outside our observable universe.

Logically, nothingness is the absent of everything correct?

Giving nothingness a something(as you say infinity), it THEN is something... NOT nothingness - if you cannot understand the paradox there then I am sorry, I cannot explain it more simple than that. But the logic is sound.

Lets look at it this way also

If nothingness exists just like you have mentioned and you say everything is possiable, then therefore NOTHING is possiable, as Nothing is a possibility. Another paradox.

Again, you cannot have infinte possiablilities as there are to many paradoxs to consider.

(However, I personally think there is more out there - but it has boundaries just as everything else - even god)

Kind Regards,

Edited by The Id3al Experience, 14 March 2013 - 11:00 PM.

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#21    Royal

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:29 PM

AquilaChryseatos, in an existence without laws we do not exist. And if we do not exist, God does not exist.

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#22    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:26 AM

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 14 March 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

:huh: ... Not making the connection...

Black is not a color, it is the absence of color.

Nothing is not something, it is the absence of something.

Drunk with blood..
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Who is like God
The epitome of evil

#23    notforgotten

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:27 AM

God has always been. He is now and will always be.


#24    White Crane Feather

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:28 AM

View PostChloeB, on 14 March 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:



Maybe "God" is not the creator of the universe, but it's ultimate outcome, maybe God is not hiding any relevent information or keeping secrets, but realizing and learning them through humanity as the nervous system of an ever evolving global brain developing self-consciousness just as humans evolved to, but on a grander scale.


"The universe may grow like a giant brain, according to a new computer simulation.
The results, published Nov. 16 in the journal Nature's Scientific Reports, suggest that some undiscovered, fundamental laws may govern the growth of systems large and small, from the electrical firing between brain cellsand growth of social networksPosted Image to the expansion of galaxies.
"Natural growth dynamics are the same for different real networks, like the Internet or the brain or social networks," said study co-author Dmitri Krioukov, a physicist at the UniversityPosted Image of California San Diego.
The new study suggests a single fundamental law of nature may govern these networks, said physicist Kevin Bassler of the University of Houston, who was not involved in the study."


When the team compared the universe's history with growth of social networks and brain circuits, they found all the networks expanded in similar ways: They balanced links between similar nodes with ones that already had many connections. For instance, a cat lover surfing the Internet may visit mega-sites such as Google or Yahoo, but will also browse cat fancier websites or YouTube kitten videos. In the same way, neighboring brain cellslike to connect, but neurons also link to such "Google brain cells" that are hooked up to loads of other brain cells.

The eerie similarity between networks large and small is unlikely to be a coincidence, Krioukov said.
"For a physicist it's an immediate signal that there is some missing understanding of how nature works," Krioukov said.
It's more likely that some unknown law governs the way networks grow and change, from the smallest brain cells to the growth of mega-galaxies, Krioukov said.
"This result suggests that maybe we should start looking for it," Krioukov told LiveScience.

http://www.nbcnews.c...e/#.UUGWt1ehyXm

Hahahaha it's funny chloe.... Some of us have already known this for years. Indeed thousands of years. It's good to see Somone might be paying the proper scientific attention though.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#25    Frank Merton

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:34 AM

Arguments that wind down to things like, "Since the existence of nothing is a contradiction in terms then something has to exist and that is God" never made much sense to me, and I don't think I'm alone.


#26    White Crane Feather

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:34 AM

View PostRoyal, on 14 March 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

Everything is not possible, like Steve Martin said in the 70's " It's impossible to put a cadillac up you're nose, it's just impossible".
This is correct. There are things in nature that can exist physically  but have no way of existing. A large star sized gold pkanet/globe. The laws of nature have no problem allowing it to exist, but it probably dosnt in any universe.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#27    White Crane Feather

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:39 AM

View PostHavocWing, on 15 March 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:



Black is not a color, it is the absence of color.

Nothing is not something, it is the absence of something.
Unless there is no absence of something. Then nothing is truely nothing. Even the Planck size must have a way of transferring information between the margins. Most likely "virtual" particles. What happens when the space between the ultimate spaces can be filled.... New space!!!! Then we call it dark energy?!?!?

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#28    DingoLingo

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:45 AM

Where did come from

bit of a tough one.. where did any of the gods come from?

were they there before people started believing in them..

did they spring from a idea or from the collective belief of many people...

personally.. I do not believe in a singular god.. there is no proof of a single god.. I believe in many gods..

but do they have their own gods above them?

its really a question that cannot be answered for everyone..

each person has their own beliefs.. some believe in a god.. some dont.. some believe in many gods.. or a goddess ... are they wrong?

no.. there is not one religion for the whole world.. every religion is correct for those that believe in that religion..

why should someone believe in a god.. or another form of deity..

the should not have to.. it is their choice to believe or not believe..


#29    TheLogic

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:52 AM

God is just a symbol of all good in the world.
Satan is a symbol of all evil.

At least that is what I believe.
They are purely symbolic for different aspects of the moral compass.


#30    danielost

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 10:05 AM

View PostRoyal, on 14 March 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

Infinity is the everything of one thing at a time, not the everything of everything," everything is possible" is in and of itself an impossibility. Nothing is only something in that it is devoid of anything,and Nothing can be infinite until it becomes something.Consciouseness can be infinite but it cannot be everything.In the beginning there was infinite nothingness that became something, and thats everything we know.

This is why god created time.  So that all things on earth did not happen all at once.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.




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