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Where Did God Come From?


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#61    ancient astronaut

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:05 AM

View PostHavocWing, on 14 March 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

Where did god come from?  Easy, someone's imagination.
You took the words right out of my mouth!

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#62    The Id3al Experience

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:47 AM

View Postdanielost, on 18 March 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

All that means is that you didn't understand nature.

And your post #57 explains nature?

"I think that at some point there was nothing but scatterd intellagence(spch).  These clumped together like a planet until one becomes intellegent, thus becoming the first god."

???

Watch this space

#63    danielost

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:50 AM

View PostThe Id3al Experience, on 18 March 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:



And your post #57 explains nature?

"I think that at some point there was nothing but scatterd intellagence(spch).  These clumped together like a planet until one becomes intellegent, thus becoming the first god."

???

Maybe, maybe not.

I do know that there was something before life and it is not life.

I remember my first thought, at the time of my birth.

Edited by danielost, 18 March 2013 - 03:53 AM.

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#64    The Id3al Experience

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:54 AM

View Postdanielost, on 18 March 2013 - 03:50 AM, said:

Maybe, maybe not.

I do know that there was something before life and it is not life.

I remember my first thought, at the time of my birth.

Id agree about "there was something before life and it is not life"

Watch this space

#65    Frank Merton

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:53 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 18 March 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

But what changed the "nothing" so that there now was something? It may not be possible to cross infinity, but im not so sure it's impossible to occupy a spot along it. Many times what is intuitive is not necessarily they way nature works.
Your answer assumes that causation is a logical principle.  It is not.  It is empirical.  That is, we assume it is true all the time because it seems to work so often.  It is a mistake to project something we observe into something that logically must always be so.


#66    White Crane Feather

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:36 PM

View Postdanielost, on 18 March 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:



All that means is that you didn't understand nature.
Indeed. My point was is that humans can come up with nice logical conclusions like infinite regression, but it may not have a basis in reality. We see this all the time in cosmology and Quantum mechanics. Nature simply dosnt bend to the assumptions of man. My favorite story is how einsteine rejected his own predictions of the existence of black holes.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#67    White Crane Feather

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:52 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 18 March 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:


Your answer assumes that causation is a logical principle.  It is not.  It is empirical.  That is, we assume it is true all the time because it seems to work so often.  It is a mistake to project something we observe into something that logically must always be so.
Logic dosnt dictate truth. You can make a perfectly logically true argument that simply ends up being wrong. All that is required for something to be logically sound is for the premise to lead to the conclusion without engaging in fallacy. This does not make the premise nor the conclusion right.... only logically sound. This is where empiricism then further logic comes in support the premis or conclusion. At the moment there is no support for the logical argument of infinite regression. it's a nice idea, but that's all it amounts to. Empirically everything we know of besides the big bang  apears to have a cause, and there are plenty of probable candidates for even that. The most likely being a rare mass quantum tunneling event of virtual particles.

The notion of infinite time assumes the existence of time. In reality "time" is probably nothing more than our experience and record of change. I think it's quite clear that change has probably never started or stopped. Indeed even the fabled "nothing" must have changed.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#68    Frank Merton

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:03 PM

I think you think in a box and automatically assume anyone who has gotten out of that box has to be wrong.  If you could only see.


#69    White Crane Feather

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:00 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 18 March 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

I think you think in a box and automatically assume anyone who has gotten out of that box has to be wrong.  If you could only see.
I don't think out of the box thinking is wrong, frank . I'm actually arguing for the opposite. My rejection of infinite regression has nothing to do with right or wrong.  I have put a lot of thought into it long before this conversation. I realize more than you think, that there is more to reality ( in this case causality) than the human experience has defined. You are correct that just because we experience causality dosn't mean that it always has to be so, but just because It dosnt have to be , dosnt mean that it is not either. infinite regression is the logical mind at work. Nature has a habit of violating what we think is logical.

Then we are forced to mold our logic around what we discover. I think nature dictates logic, I don't think logic dictates nature.


"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#70    Royal

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:09 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 18 March 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

I think you think in a box and automatically assume anyone who has gotten out of that box has to be wrong.  If you could only see.
   What I see is you still not  saying anything constructive. It's easy to sit back and tell people they don't understand this and they're wrong about that,without the substance to back it up.

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#71    LEGIONS

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:44 PM

I think Steve Martin was trying to say something different ...Here I have money for this caddy and I go see the cocaine man ..there by have put the caddy up my nose ...I must have snorted half of Peru once upon a time lol

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#72    Frank Merton

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:05 PM

Yea that's what I thought Steve Martin meant, and it is possible thereby to put a Cadillac up your nose.


#73    Frank Merton

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:10 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 18 March 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:


Then we are forced to mold our logic around what we discover. I think nature dictates logic, I don't think logic dictates nature.
I should know better than to tell people their thinking is in a box even though to me it is obvious; if it were obvious to them they would step out of it.  

I don't know for sure where logic comes from.  When I say A implies B and B implies C, then I conclude A implies C.  I cannot imagine a universe where that could be different, but of coure inability to imagine may only mean lack of imagination.  Still, from everything that I see I lean toward logic dictating nature.  Maybe its a false dichotomy.


#74    LEGIONS

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

oh perhaps a couple caddys up the nose

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#75    Royal

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:57 PM

View PostLEGIONS, on 18 March 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

I think Steve Martin was trying to say something different ...Here I have money for this caddy and I go see the cocaine man ..there by have put the caddy up my nose ...I must have snorted half of Peru once upon a time lol
  You may be right about that, I personally think Martin was just parodying Perry Como's song" It's Impossible". That is a great interpretation though.

"you oughta be in here looking out"




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