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Guns save lives thread


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#1    F3SS

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:32 PM

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Here, I'd like to start a thread where stories of guns saving lives and properties can be posted instead of making a new thread for every story that must be told. The blaze does an excellent job of posting these stories almost daily. While we are inundated with mind numbing reasonings on restrcition from the likes of Dianne Feinstein and carelessly shoot your shotgun through your front door if you're spooked Joe Biden it seems that we need a one stop area filled with daily tales on the upside of responsible gun ownership. All the stories like that get spread too thin and overlooked. Here, we can have a consolidation of reasoning that can't be ignored. Only time will tell if fellow UMers like this idea. But I'll start. Here goes...


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WISCONSIN’S NEW CONCEALED CARRY LAW (AND A FORMER MARINE) JUST SAVED THIS WOMAN’S LIFE
A West Allis, Wisc., man stumbled upon a dangerous — and potentially deadly — situation while driving home at 4 a.m. on Tuesday. Charlie Blackmore, a Marine Corps veteran, saw a woman on the ground being repeatedly kicked in the head and stomach.

Blackmore quickly got out of his car and told the male assailant to stop attacking the woman. And that’s when the perpetrator, 44-year-old Kenneth Harris, started charging toward him. Little did Harris know, but Blackmore was carrying a gun.

“I said ‘stop’ and he starts coming towards me and that’s when I drew on him,” the brave vet told WITI-TV. “He started getting closer and I said ‘get down on the ground.”

Blackmore then called the police and held his gun on the perpetrator until they arrived. In the mean time, though, Harris apparently kept moving toward him.

“I mean I’ve already made it up in mind that if he came at me I was going to have to take him down and I told him that,” he continued, recapping the scenario in detail. “I warned him multiple times not to come towards me because he was a big guy and I wasn’t playing around and he didn’t seem like he was playing around.”

Continued... http://www.theblaze....is-womans-life/


Edited by -Mr_Fess-, 15 March 2013 - 07:39 PM.

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#2    supervike

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 08:39 PM

I like the idea, but playing devil's advocate here.

If you can't blame a gun for a persons death (Guns don't kill people, people do), how can you make the reverse argument??


#3    Kowalski

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:53 PM

I LOVE this idea! :tsu: Here's a story I read a couple of weeks back, that didn't get much air time but should have.

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Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

SAN ANTONIO -- A man was shot by an off-duty deputy after investigators say he opened fire at a South Side theater Sunday night, injuring one person.

Authorities said 19-year-old Jesus Manuel Garcia showed up at the China Garden restaurant on Southwest Military Drive around 9:30 p.m. Sunday and opened fire. Investigators say Garcia works at the restaurant and believe the shooting may have had something to do with the breakup with his girlfriend, who also works at the restaurant. The girlfriend was not at the restaurant at the time of the shooting.

The employees inside the restaurant fled out a side door into the parking lot. Investigators said Garcia began chasing the employees and continued firing at them as they ran through the parking lot and into the Mayan Palace Theatre next door.

As Garcia was running through the parking lot, he shot the windshield of a San Antonio Police patrol car after an officer in the car shined a spotlight on him. The officer was not injured.

Garcia then ran inside the movie theater, where he continued his search for the restaurant employees. Movie-goers in the lobby, bathroom, and some theaters reported hearing multiple gunshots. The gunshots caused people inside the theater to panic.

"Everybody was just coming out of the side of the theater, running out the emergency exits. And everyone was screaming and running," a woman who was at the theater told us.

Authorities said one person was shot by Garcia.

Garcia was finally stopped by an off-duty Bexar County Sheriff's Department officer who was working security at the theater. Officials said the officer, Sgt. Lisa Castellano, heard the gunfire inside the theater and ran towards the sound of the shooting to find out what was going on. Sgt. Castellano spotted Garcia coming out of a bathroom with his gun drawn and fired at him, shooting him four times.

"The officer involved, she took the appropriate action to try to keep everyone safe in the movie theater," Bexar County Sheriff's Office spokesperson Detective Lou Antu said.

An off-duty San Antonio Independent School District officer who was also at the theater helped take Garcia into custody.

The man who was shot by Garcia was taken to a hospital and is said to be in stable condition.

Garcia has since undergone surgery and is in stable condition at San Antonio Military Medical Center (SAMMC). He has been charged with attempted capital murder and aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. His bond has been set at $10 million.


Edited by Kowalski, 15 March 2013 - 10:01 PM.


#4    F3SS

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 11:56 PM

View Postsupervike, on 15 March 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

I like the idea, but playing devil's advocate here.

If you can't blame a gun for a persons death (Guns don't kill people, people do), how can you make the reverse argument??
Haha Supervike. Excellent point but how dare you derail my thread!? Lucky for you I've had a few drinks since I made this thread earlier and have no idea how to rebuttle. Any help?
PS: I'm surprised you 'liked' this. I wouldn't have suspected that from you..

Edited by -Mr_Fess-, 16 March 2013 - 12:01 AM.

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#5    supervike

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 02:18 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 15 March 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

Haha Supervike. Excellent point but how dare you derail my thread!? Lucky for you I've had a few drinks since I made this thread earlier and have no idea how to rebuttle. Any help?
PS: I'm surprised you 'liked' this. I wouldn't have suspected that from you..

Fair enough!  I may have some Liberal leanings, but mostly I'm middle of the road.  I certainly don't have a problem with our 2nd Amendment.   I think we could have some Gun Control, but I'm all for people being able to defend themselves.  I grew up with guns and have a great deal of respect for them.

You should drink more often!   It's probably my only chance of winning an argument with you!! LOL


#6    Michelle

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 02:24 AM

Me, me, me...I'm still here because of a gun and a big dog!!!! :sk

If nobody minds, I prefer not to tell that story again....it upsets my chakra. *hmmmmmmm*


#7    Hawkin

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 02:54 AM

Here's a video that where a woman shoots an intruder breaking into her home.



Edited by Mag357, 16 March 2013 - 02:55 AM.

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#8    DieChecker

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:37 PM

You don't even have to shoot the gun to have your life saved by it. Just screaming out that you have a gun will many times send a home invader running.

I posted about the number of accidental deaths due to guns versus the number of police reports of home invaders being chased off... some time ago. (Can't seem to Search it, or google it though) And basically, you are like 5000 times more likely to chase off an intruder with your gun then for it to be taken away and used against you, or to accidentally kill yourself with it. Wounding yourself is quite a bit larger number. Somewhere like a hundred times more likely to protect your property, then to shoot yourself.

Maybe I'll try to recreate that post/data here if I have time....

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#9    RavenHawk

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:37 PM

View Postsupervike, on 15 March 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

If you can't blame a gun for a persons death (Guns don't kill people, people do), how can you make the reverse argument??
Exactly!  You can't.  A gun is only an implement.  It cannot initiate action.  Only the person that wields the gun can take or save a life.  It is their Inalienable Right to do so.  This is something that no government can ultimately regulate.  I.e. people will still kill no matter how many laws are on the book.  What all Socialist governments cannot understand is that there are already internal controls in place (individual responsibility).  Inalienable Rights is only half of the equation.  The complementary companion of Inalienable Rights is Inalienable Consequences.  When we are children, we learn that there are always consequences to our actions.  I.e. we are ultimately responsible for our own actions.  But especially for those under 30, our educational system is structured to teach that no one is wrong.  That we don't have to worry about consequences.  This is a degradation of morals.

This concept goes back to and was born from Jesus.  Yes, we are talking about morals (not dogma).  Before Jesus, there was the Law.  No one was allowed to think on their own outside of the Law.  Jesus came not to do away with the Law but to fulfill it.  So what is left?  What does that mean?  We are not longer bound by the written Law.  The Law is written on our hearts now.  The Law is now Inalienable Consequences.  It is Karma.  We don't need an artificial construct, what we call government to run our lives.  All we need is a police/justice system to protect our property and lives, not regulate it or nanny us.  This readily applies to the first 10 Amendments.  Our Founding Fathers knew what they were talking about.  People don't understand that when they claim that the Constitution is obsolete.  They just don't understand how deep the Founding Fathers delved into enlightenment.

There's a lot more to it than just saving lives.  It's all about ideology.  The OP question should "Those that carry guns save lives".

Edited by RavenHawk, 18 March 2013 - 09:28 PM.

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#10    F3SS

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:56 PM

Good observation Raven but I think the point is clear.

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#11    Bama13

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 06:29 PM

View Postsupervike, on 15 March 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

I like the idea, but playing devil's advocate here.

If you can't blame a gun for a persons death (Guns don't kill people, people do), how can you make the reverse argument??

True. Guns neither take nor save lives, people do.

Kinda like "Neither the Irish nor the moon can control the Crimson Tide!!"
Go BAMA, ROLL TIDE!!

Just put a "G" in front of Obama and you get GObama!!

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#12    Sweetpumper

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 06:33 PM

American Rifleman has probably ten new stories in their magazine each month of citizens using their guns to save lives.

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#13    DieChecker

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:38 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 17 March 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

You don't even have to shoot the gun to have your life saved by it. Just screaming out that you have a gun will many times send a home invader running.

I posted about the number of accidental deaths due to guns versus the number of police reports of home invaders being chased off... some time ago. (Can't seem to Search it, or google it though) And basically, you are like 5000 times more likely to chase off an intruder with your gun then for it to be taken away and used against you, or to accidentally kill yourself with it. Wounding yourself is quite a bit larger number. Somewhere like a hundred times more likely to protect your property, then to shoot yourself.

Maybe I'll try to recreate that post/data here if I have time....

Looks like I was close in my remembering...

This site appears to be fairly well referenced, so the numbers here are probably somewhat relable.
http://injuryprevent...nt/5/4/284.full

Quote

Although many people bring guns into the home for protection against crime, research on police reported home invasion crimes indicates that, even in homes with guns, residents were very rarely able to use a gun in self defense. Measurement of defensive gun uses is a matter of great debate. Surveys have produced estimates of the number of times per year a gun was used in the US for protection against crime that range from 61 000 to 23 million, the majority of which reportedly occurred outside the home. Studies such as Kleck and Gertz's estimate 800 000 defensive gun uses within the home per year, but have poor external validity and appear to greatly exaggerate the incidence of defensive gun use.

The link between gun ownership and unintentional shootings has not been formally studied. In the US, unintentional gun deaths are much less common than gun suicides and homicides, however, unintentional shootings still account for approximately 1100 deaths and 17 000 non-fatal woundings treated in hospital emergency departments each year with children and adolescents being common victims both in the US and other countries.

If we use the low number of 61,000 (very low IMHO) then we get 55 home invasions prevented per accidental death, and 3.5 home invasions prevented per wounding.

If we use the high number of 23 million (probably way high) then we get 21000 home invasions prevented per death, and 1350 home invasions prevented per wounding.

If we use the middle number of 800000 (probably close to median) then we get 727 home invasions prevented per death and 47 home invasion prevented per wounding.

This all varies by what is considered a gun related prevention of a home invasion. If you start yelling that you are going to shoot the invader, but don't have a gun, some people say that is not gun related. But, I'd say it is, because without private gun ownership it would be a feeble bluff.

I personnally feel that preventing/stopping/ending 730 home invasions for each person accidentally shot to death is a worthwhile thing. Without gun ownership how many of those 730 people would have also been killed?

I think the whole "You are more likely to shoot yourself then to prevent a robbery" is a myth. Simple statistics says that a 730 to 1 ratio means that home invasion prevention is way, way more common.

Edited by DieChecker, 19 March 2013 - 07:42 PM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#14    F3SS

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:03 PM

Good post. I instantly had something and then I lost it just like that. I have no idea what I was going to say now but ,still, good post.

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#15    CRYSiiSx2

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:27 AM

View Postsupervike, on 15 March 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

I like the idea, but playing devil's advocate here.

If you can't blame a gun for a persons death (Guns don't kill people, people do), how can you make the reverse argument??

Because a gun doesn't have the ability to make a mental decision?

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