40 replies to this topic

[chopmo]

otkbrat, on 16 March 2013 - 01:28 AM, said:

I've been experiencing what I believe is Astral Travel, but some of my experiences have not been to good.  I would like to be able to do this more and be able to get myself out of the bad ones.  It usually starts out as a dream, turns into a lucrid dream and then I start astral traveling.  I know what it is because I used to have a friend who told me about astral traveling but I can't control it.  I think I am going to bad places where I feel trapped and can't get out.  In one I just had a person/entity that looked sort of like a nurse grabbed me and I couldn't get free.  It was scary.  Some of them are hard to describe even.  It's like totally being in another world and it feels real.  The ones that I have that are pleasant are very pleasant but the ones that I have that are bad are very bad.  The only thing is even though it seems I can feel things are float through things sometimes I can't always hear anything, is that normal? Any advice I can get would be awesome.

Thanks

Astral from my POV is a completely different realm and isn't "a jumping porthole" situation as you describe. Lucid, Mental, Dreaming, Regression are all in as we see 3D normal colour schemes (except if you want to get technical i'd say the world has a hard light effect about it, similar to a solar eclipse) where when I astral it's multi-visual-dimensions and a UltraViolet colour scheme.

I find people who force their dreams are the ones with the worst experiences doing so. Like your psyche is punishing you for forcing your way in.

From a dreaming aspect, you have probally had a traumatic experience within health. Either as a child with hospitals, doctors, dentists (most of the time is because you go into the room by yourself) or you have had a family member / close friend have major complications with the same and you felt you were behind closed doors about the situation.

My tips are play with your lucid then your astral then your regression.

Lucid - Dream about a place you would like to see, an object you would like to have/play with or Someone you wish to see.
Go to sleep with good intentions and keep this on your mind. Rather easy and harmless to play with, it's conditioning for control in the other realms. Keep in mind try to stay in control of yourself and the chosen situation everything else treat like a sandbox.

Astral - TBH I have never forced it, I am taken to what is being presented. From what I was taught if you wanted to see a particular place/town/object/country ponder about it before sleep, this is different from how you think in Lucid, Lucid is forcing something to appear where astral is your soul taking you. I usually find myself in Egypt near The Sphynx or in jungles that I could only presume is The Amazon. In lamens terms, think Habbo hotel but trippy. I have met and chatted with a few (2 or 3 not a whole lot) people while doing so but once again never under "OMFG I HAVE TO GO TALK TO THAT PERSON" premise, more so we happen to float near eachother. But it is, what it is Travelling of the Soul. I don't see why so many people are interested in making Astral Travel do other than it's purpose, I usally put it to the person having a control issues in life so they try to force control where they feel in power to balance it out. You'll just keep lucid dreaming and that's when your nasties will come to screw with you... you are trying to screw with their world in hindsight so it's in my eyes kharmic (You'd be pretty annoyed with someone telling you to use deorderint for mouth wash (kinda similar but way different). I love and adore how everything is presented in a multideminsional tranlucentness and the landscapes I wake up feeling feeling like coming back from holidays.
On the quirky sides of things, ever woken up and feel like you've hit the bed and bounced awake. That in my teachings and pov is your soul just catching your body waking up.

Regression - Aaah, the big boy out of the 3. This is where it can get dangerous. This is usually the presumption of what astral does in the way of what people are looking for. This place is interesting because it's a Place dedicated to you and your past lives. Containing everyone you have ever met, throughout every life you have lived. (We tend to stick in the same groups when it comes to reincarnation). This is the information source of everything to do with you and people have been known to pick up skills in this realm; Language, Trade, Arts. Be warned though it can be harmfull if you start talking to the wrong people. Key is though if you do not feel safe with a person or surrounding ask it to leave.

If you don't mind otkbrat what teachings or followings do you represent in yourself?

If you are not open to the concept of a soul, afterlife, different realms, spirits, reincarnation and belief in possibility of any of it happening. You will just be running around in circles. It'd be like a complete atheist sitting in a church. For what purpose other than a wolf wearing sheeps clothing. Mind IS over Matter.

[otkbrat]

Although I don't think I'm really forcing it to much, a lot of what your saying makes sense to try and control the lucrid dreaming.  It doesn't actually happen to me that much although it has been starting to happen every once in awhile.  I think partially it might be happening because I have been really been trying to get in touch spiritually with God more than ever lately.  I believe in God, Jesus Christ and the holy spirit but I am also open to other things.  I didn't used to be that open.  I wanted to believe in some of those things but the church always taught they were a sin.  I don't really believe that anymore though.  I don't really take every word the bible says literally anymore.  I have always believed in spirits and other realms to some degree.  I'm open to reincarnation although not totally sure what happens after we die.  I have always had an interest in paranormal stuff, ghosts and different things of that nature although I tried to stifle that interest for a long time.  Now I believe if God gives us gifts we try to learn what they are and use them for his benefit.

[Kazahel]

RedNova, on 16 March 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

There are entities who wait for you right as you leave your body; however these are nothing to fear as long as you don't be fear or low vibrations with you as you project.  Low vibration entities are mindless, they're leeches that just want energy.  It only takes the wave of a finger to send them scampering away, but you have to have the mind for it.  Hope this helps!

How do you know this as a fact(and considering you haven't projected yet as you said in your first sentence)?  It's just you tell this as if its a truth.

What I'm getting at is it sounds like you just believe what you read.  And because someone has suggested this, your mind will most likely create it later. So if you do see an entity when you leave your body its now most likely because you expected to.   Anotherwords I haven't seen an entity from just leaving the body and I never expected to.

chopmo, on 18 March 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Astral - TBH I have never forced it, I am taken to what is being presented. From what I was taught if you wanted to see a particular place/town/object/country ponder about it before sleep, this is different from how you think in Lucid, Lucid is forcing something to appear where astral is your soul taking you. I usually find myself in Egypt near The Sphynx or in jungles that I could only presume is The Amazon.

I would disagree that lucid is forcing something to appear. Lucid is just being aware. Forcing something to appear could come under controlling the dream but not simply being lucid. Anotherwords I went lucid in a dream the other night and I flew into the clouds. I didn't expect to come across anything I just wanted to fly high and I used the clouds as a thing to focus on because it help me fly faster when I see an object in the distance. So when I flew into the clouds I then saw a mountain, so I flew towards the mountain and then landed on the peak to find a city. So I didn't force the city to materialize by thinking about a city. I just came across it because I basically wanted to fly into the clouds. I had no idea I would come across that and it is just what flowed.

So this is why I think lucid dreaming and astral travelling is basically the same thing just with a different name. Because you started this paragraph with "I am taken to what is being presented.." and this is the same thing as what I experienced only the other night. (it's posted in the weird dreams thread). So the city and the rest of the dream was presented to me by simply choosing to fly to a cloud. And I didn't force to see any of the characters there.

Also by thinking about a place you wish to go to before sleep as you said.. that is along the same lines as what you said about being lucid(you're basically setting a dream goal). The only different is you're setting your goal/desire before going to bed instead of following that goal while actually dreaming. So if you were to truly allow your soul to take you to a place, you wouldn't ponder about that place before bed.

See I have dreams all the time where I am flying around different countries(lucid and non lucid) and I wouldn't call them astral projecting because I call them lucid/dreaming(and I rarely plan to go there, I just pop up there) but if I went by your definition I could call these experiences astral projecting. So I think in the end its just some people like to separate the dreaming experiences under different labels.

Edited by Kazahel, 19 March 2013 - 02:36 AM.

[Seeker79]

Kazahel, on 19 March 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

How do you know this as a fact(and considering you haven't projected yet as you said in your first sentence)?  It's just you tell this as if its a truth.

What I'm getting at is it sounds like you just believe what you read.  And because someone has suggested this, your mind will most likely create it later. So if you do see an entity when you leave your body its now most likely because you expected to.   Anotherwords I haven't seen an entity from just leaving the body and I never expected to.



I would disagree that lucid is forcing something to appear. Lucid is just being aware. Forcing something to appear could come under controlling the dream but not simply being lucid. Anotherwords I went lucid in a dream the other night and I flew into the clouds. I didn't expect to come across anything I just wanted to fly high and I used the clouds as a thing to focus on because it help me fly faster when I see an object in the distance. So when I flew into the clouds I then saw a mountain, so I flew towards the mountain and then landed on the peak to find a city. So I didn't force the city to materialize by thinking about a city. I just came across it because I basically wanted to fly into the clouds. I had no idea I would come across that and it is just what flowed.

So this is why I think lucid dreaming and astral travelling is basically the same thing just with a different name. Because you started this paragraph with "I am taken to what is being presented.." and this is the same thing as what I experienced only the other night. (it's posted in the weird dreams thread). So the city and the rest of the dream was presented to me by simply choosing to fly to a cloud. And I didn't force to see any of the characters there.

Also by thinking about a place you wish to go to before sleep as you said.. that is along the same lines as what you said about being lucid(you're basically setting a dream goal). The only different is you're setting your goal/desire before going to bed instead of following that goal while actually dreaming. So if you were to truly allow your soul to take you to a place, you wouldn't ponder about that place before bed.

See I have dreams all the time where I am flying around different countries(lucid and non lucid) and I wouldn't call them astral projecting because I call them lucid/dreaming(and I rarely plan to go there, I just pop up there) but if I went by your definition I could call these experiences astral projecting. So I think in the end its just some people like to separate the dreaming experiences under different labels.

I agree with a lot of that kaz, but.... There are so many differences.. Could it be a product... Of course... But for me.. And me alone. There is a clear separation.

[Kazahel]

Seeker79, on 19 March 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

I agree with a lot of that kaz, but.... There are so many differences.. Could it be a product... Of course... But for me.. And me alone. There is a clear separation.

What do you think are some of the differences?  Is it mainly because of the experience of actually separating from the body?

I mean some people might even say that unless you see a silver cord then its not an OBE. But from what I just read(I dunno if its true or not)is that the silver cords origin is from the bible. Ecclesiastes 12:6 (found that from wiki just then).

So the only reason imo that people ever saw the silver cord is because they read about it(and heard about it) and expected to see it. And I tend to think the same happens with many things.

[chopmo]

Kazahel, on 19 March 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

I would disagree that lucid is forcing something to appear. Lucid is just being aware. Forcing something to appear could come under controlling the...

It is really each to their own and hence why I always put it from the perspective of my understanding , wasn't trying to draw a line in the sand.

See by your definition it is easy to assume you seen a city when flying around clouds because by average that's what you'd be most likely flying over whilst flying. Little things like that are your brain just inserting the normal IMO. If there was no assistance from the normality sector of your brain the dream would be quite boring or small placed. Forcing it by my means if just wanting something tangible then making it happen. This doesn't have to be the complete dream scenario but the POV activities are usually based on your decisions. Astral for me has never had a variable I could tinker with, like I said difference between lucid and astral is pretty much like a sandbox mode.

But once again these are our own perceptions & TBH shouldn't be argued or debated on details more should be focused into the benefits and real time prospects of this.

[otkbrat]

I am a bit confused.  What is the difference between lucid dreaming and Astro because I thought astro was supposed to be actually happening where a lucid dream is just a dream but you control it right?  I'm asking because because the experience I had just seemed way more than just a dream that my mind created.

[Seeker79]

Kazahel, on 19 March 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

What do you think are some of the differences?  Is it mainly because of the experience of actually separating from the body?

I mean some people might even say that unless you see a silver cord then its not an OBE. But from what I just read(I dunno if its true or not)is that the silver cords origin is from the bible. Ecclesiastes 12:6 (found that from wiki just then).

So the only reason imo that people ever saw the silver cord is because they read about it(and heard about it) and expected to see it. And I tend to think the same happens with many things.

Possibly. I have never seen the cord. But The quality is much different in dreams vrs astral experiences. Lucid dreams I know I'm dreaming. Astral experiences there are certain sets of sensations leading up to it. Vibrations, rushing noises, exit from body. Dreams, for me at least, do not have these qualities. Also upon exiting from the body you are usually in your house and the pace of reality is not scenario driven. If I want I can just go sit on the Sopha and mostly nothing will happen unless I initiate it. Dreams however,  lucid or not, there is always a scenario unfolding. I have never had a dream where I was just left to my own devices.

I have dreamt that I was projecting before. With other people, but upon waking I knew it was a dream.

[Seeker79]

otkbrat, on 20 March 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

I am a bit confused.  What is the difference between lucid dreaming and Astro because I thought astro was supposed to be actually happening where a lucid dream is just a dream but you control it right?  I'm asking because because the experience I had just seemed way more than just a dream that my mind created.

"Lucid dream" just means that you are aware that you are dreaming. Controlling the dream is another issue. We use the same generation of internal imagery for waking life, dreams, the journey or anything we experience. The difference is the meaning and reason behind the generation of such imagery. Quite obviously in waking life your imagery is being stimulated by physical objects, dreams are generated entirely internally, if you believe in other realms and spirits, then astro images are generated from your awareness of outside stimuli. The problem lies in that for an image to be constructed based on information in a non physical world, the mind must use what it has the refer to. If Somone is haveing a conversation with a non physical entity, they may see that entity as being human, when in fact it is nothing like a human at all. Once you are out and about, you have to make a decision on wether your experiences are entirely self generated from your database of information or are a product of expanded awareness. And yes the two cross over makeing it more difficult. Almost like haveing a mental disorder in waking life. Somethings are real and some are not. Some, especially those that have no real experiences on the matter, believe that it's all internally generated dreaming. This is perfectly reasonable on their part, others like myself believe that there is far more to it. Still others Believe that even standard dreams are representations of astral experiences. ( I can't reconcile that with some of my dreams, but hey, who knows).

I have only met one person who has become adapt at this and believes its all entirely a mechanistic mind. I don't see how Somone can come to that conclusion, so I am forced to doubt their experience, but that's just me.

[Kazahel]

chopmo, on 20 March 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

It is really each to their own and hence why I always put it from the perspective of my understanding , wasn't trying to draw a line in the sand.

See by your definition it is easy to assume you seen a city when flying around clouds because by average that's what you'd be most likely flying over whilst flying. Little things like that are your brain just inserting the normal IMO.

Just quickly I saw a mountain when in the clouds, then at the top of that was the city. But how does that differ from pondering about the pyramids and then dreaming/astral projecting you are there? If you think that was projecting I still don't understand how you think its different.

Seeker79, on 20 March 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

But The quality is much different in dreams vrs astral experiences. Lucid dreams I know I'm dreaming. Astral experiences there are certain sets of sensations leading up to it. Vibrations, rushing noises, exit from body. Dreams, for me at least, do not have these qualities. Also upon exiting from the body you are usually in your house and the pace of reality is not scenario driven. If I want I can just go sit on the Sopha and mostly nothing will happen unless I initiate it. Dreams however,  lucid or not, there is always a scenario unfolding. I have never had a dream where I was just left to my own devices.

I have dreamt that I was projecting before. With other people, but upon waking I knew it was a dream.

Yes lucid you are aware but you are also aware in an obe. So they are the same in that regard. And I wouldn't say the quality is much different at all. I've done it many times(well had that typical obe experience) and I find the quality the same. The only difference I tend to find is that its generally darker when moving around my house because the lights are off. But that doesn't mean its not my mind creating that scene(how would anyone know for sure?). So the only thing that people use to separate them is the sensation of leaving the body, seeing the body and being in your house. And all of this the mind can create. The vibrations and sounds I think are just because your body is numb from being close to sleep(so drifting into dreaming).

I noticed you typed 'mostly' in regards to nothing happening during astral when sitting on a sofa, so anotherwords sometimes something does happen(so I'm not sure how you can use that as a way to say its different). Also I'm not sure what you mean exactly where you say you have never had a dream(lucid or not) where you are left to your own devices. Left to your own devices means.. " If someone is left to their own devices, they are not controlled and can do what they want."
Read more at http://www.usingengl...etyGU71Ajj81.99

And lucid dreaming is exactly being left to your own devices. You are not controlled and can do whatever you want. And you cant use an environment(so the bedroom) as a way to say one is not scenario driven. If someone is expecting to leave the body then the mind can easily create that 'experience' especially if someone has read about what the experience is supposed to feel like.

Edited by Kazahel, 20 March 2013 - 06:35 AM.

[Kazahel]

otkbrat, on 20 March 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

I am a bit confused.  What is the difference between lucid dreaming and Astro because I thought astro was supposed to be actually happening where a lucid dream is just a dream but you control it right?  I'm asking because because the experience I had just seemed way more than just a dream that my mind created.

If astral travelling/obe is actually happening(in real time) then it would be easy to prove. And as far as I'm aware it hasn't been proven. So the main difference and way to tell is simply the experience of leaving your body(or seeing the body), everything else feels the same. So if someone was to dream of leaving their body and say something like "I dreamt I was floating above my body last night" then pretty much everyone would say "you had an out of body experience". And that is the main way people separate them.

People also say that vibrating and noises leading up to the event must mean its separate but I disagree because I've had lucid dreams that have ended and then while being awake I have felt the vibrations and then rolled myself out of body(so seconds after waking up from a dream). But that could mean I just went back into a dream of rolling out of the body, if you understand what I mean. So after waking up from a lucid dream you can go back into a dream pretty much instantly, and by thinking about going out of body that can potentially create the experience.

And if anyone was to say "well you haven't truly experienced it because you didnt experience it how I did" (as if they are some sort of authority on the subject) Then that would just be kinda arrogant.  That's why I mentioned the silver cord.

So that is where I sit on the subject. I understand I cant be sure if its not just a dream(and I'm not sure how anyone can be totally sure). That's why I don't separate it and I think of it all as the same thing. And don't mistake me typing "just a dream" as if meaning dreaming is purely from the mind and not from anything outside of it. I've had enough experiences with precog dreaming and shared dreaming to know there is more to dreaming than "its just a dream".  So I guess I tend to lean more towards every dream as being 'out of body' to some degree and not just images/events created purely from your own subconscious/mind.

[docyabut2]

otkbrat, on 16 March 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

I think I understand.  Basically, I need to get past my fear and learn how to control things in this lucrid dream/astro event or whatever it is called.  I think I may have done that in the past.  I had another experience a couple of weeks ago also, and by the way usually this doesn't seem to happen to me unless I've been laying around alot or sleeping off and on for awhile.  I can't really just lay down and do it cause i've tried.  In this other one I had In the beginning I was like in this tunnel or basement and its like it tried to trap me in a box that I couldn't escape.  Its hard to explain and I started to wake up but didn't let myself all the way and then when I went back into it, it became more pleasant.  Soon, I was flying into this city like place and I was thinking I would like to see my Dad who is deceased but instead I saw my mom and I hugged her.  I thought that was weird because my mom is still alive.  I asked her where dad was and she said Florida.  I'm not sure what that meant and not long after that I woke up.  When I go into these they seem so real.  They can't just be dreams.  The other thing about my mom is that I've been having this instinct about her for about a month now that I'm scared I'm going to lose her and recently she went into the hospital with Phuemonia and I found out she has a hole in her aorta.  She's like 83 years old so she opted not to have the surgury.  I'm going out to visit her in about a week.  I'm getting very scared I'm going to lose her soon.

  Your inter self is so trapped in deep worry about losing your Mom and in finding your Mom and Dad if death happens to her, but part  of your dream is reasuring you your parents will be ok, it is a dream.

[docyabut2]

Here my take on astral travel, there is no such thing,  they are just dreams, I am seventy years old and tied all that when I was younger, trying to meditate or project myself out of my body, but then I realise I could actully will myself to die.Dreams are dreams of suggestion, worry and come out  all distorted. I now can figure out all my dreams and why I dreaming them. To be honest I hope life after death is not all those crasy dreams, but is  something more real. however I do believe in near death experiences that people experience, they say are more real then a dream.

Edited by docyabut2, 20 March 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[docyabut2]

As Syliva Brown  and other psychics  say, if you a have a few demons running around in your dreams, they are of your own making.

[CRYSiiSx2]

Astral Travel is easy, you just need enough cough syrup.

Edited by CRYSiiSx2, 20 March 2013 - 01:03 PM.