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A manifesto for a good life?


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#16    Mr Walker

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:12 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 25 March 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

True. But many atheists, whilst not denying that religion has conferred benefits, cannot ignore the great harm that has been done (and still is done) in it's name. Like any ideology, uncritical and unthinking adherence to religious dogma is a huge black mark against it.

Now if only we could distill the good from the unnecessary belief in the supernatural :whistle:

I can appreciate this, but i do not think that most modern persons understand or appreciate the great power for good which religion/spiritual expression  has been for humanity, from cromagnon man to the modern age.

Prior to a couple of centuries ago, science and knowledge had almost nothing to offer humans for comfort or betterment of life, but religion has offered hope, release from pain and suffering, a sense of purpose and belonging, etc., to humans for  at least 50,000 years. It has given us an essential ingredient for human security; IE a rational explanation for all that was inexplicable given the knowledge of the time. Sure the rational explanation was incorrect because it lacked sufficient knowledge /data, but still it gave people a sense of safety, security and order, when science could not.
Only in the last few generations (At least in my family time frame. My grandmother was born in about 1880.) has scientific knowledge and understanding  been able to offer anything equivalent. So we cannot judge past religious significance or value from within a modern perspective.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#17    Beany

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:34 PM

View Postpantodragon, on 18 March 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

The woman silently stomped back to her house & slammed the door.: so you think all was then sweetness and light?  You sensed, experienced, feelings of new found happiness wafting from the woman as she slammed the door?  I don't suppose your cat happened to die next day, did it?  


No, I think your mother was a master at the Wind Up.  That old woman was exasperated and angered to the point that she turned and walked off.  Your mother was using a well known, tried and tested technique for winding people up where wearing a smile on one's face and pretending to be Mrs Nice Person.

You miss the point, I think. My mom wasn't trying to change the neighbor, she just refused to let the woman have power over her & her life, and acted in a way that was consistent with her life's philosophy. Had the woman excepted, I have no doubt my mom would have poured a couple of cups of coffee and sat down & had a good visit. One day a stranger knocked on our door, asking for $20 for gas, saying he was trying to get to his family and ran out of money for gas. She gave him the money, he promised he'd pay it back. My dad was mad at her for giving money away, but about 4 months later the same stranger knocked on our door and gave my mom $20 and a lot of gratitude. That was also my mom living her words & beliefs. She never wound people up, at least not by design. She was kind by nature, and kind by intention.


#18    pantodragon

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:33 PM

View Postrashore, on 21 March 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:


And at the same time, not sharing negative emotions is a bad thing, and we should make sure we spew all of those emotions out on others, because it makes us feel better. So though sharing my love is an infection, sharing my loathing or misery is a good idea.
Yeah, interesting notion.

There's a difference between sharing emotions and TELLING people what you think and feel.


#19    pantodragon

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:38 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 22 March 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:



I am loved and loving, do a job I am well paid for good at, and love doing, and have a wife of nearly 40 years who loves me and whom i love completely.I dont drink, smoke, or do drugs, and have compete control of my emotional responses, hence I am  a very fortunate human.  In over 60 years I have never had trouble with police, neighbours, family, friends or workmates. I dont have to worry about infidelity, violence, unemployment, loneliness, boredom, depression, envy, hate, jealousy, or any of the modern negative elements of life. I am trusted and given jobs  requiring complete honesty and integrity.

. Any one can live that well if they wish to, and work at it.

It sounds to me that rather than live well, you have stayed very carefully in your "comfort zone" all of your life.

I have never had trouble with police, neighbours, family, friends or workmates:  this is all experience of life.  If you have not had these experiences, you have not lived, and not learned to live.  You have been shut away.  You have put yourself behind bars.  Life is bad in our society.  You have to experience it to know it and learn how to deal with it.


#20    pantodragon

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:41 PM

View PostArbenol68, on 22 March 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Your opinion of De Boton is accurate (if you're going to be an theist, be an atheist. Not some vaccilating religious apologist) the rest of your post is just a rant. Your rage will only hurt you and continue to isolate you from the society you appear to despise. All I can say is........good luck.

Just shows how much you know then!  You have more need of your luck than I do, so keep it.  Fortunately I do not need to depend on luck.  I have resources that are far more reliable.


#21    pantodragon

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:45 PM

View PostBeany, on 25 March 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

You miss the point, I think. My mom wasn't trying to change the neighbor, she just refused to let the woman have power over her & her life, and acted in a way that was consistent with her life's philosophy. Had the woman excepted, I have no doubt my mom would have poured a couple of cups of coffee and sat down & had a good visit. One day a stranger knocked on our door, asking for $20 for gas, saying he was trying to get to his family and ran out of money for gas. She gave him the money, he promised he'd pay it back. My dad was mad at her for giving money away, but about 4 months later the same stranger knocked on our door and gave my mom $20 and a lot of gratitude. That was also my mom living her words & beliefs. She never wound people up, at least not by design. She was kind by nature, and kind by intention.

I stick to what I said: your mother was a wind-up artist.  There's nothing inherently noble about dishing out $20 to someone who asks.  There are all sorts of reasons for being "charitable" and precious few of them are kind in intention.


#22    eight bits

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:42 PM

pantodragon

Well, without being ironic, I do thank you for the pointer to de Boton. I watched his TED video, which when there is one, is often an efficient way to get to know an unfamiliar thinker in 15 minutes or so,

http://www.ted.com/t...of_success.html

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#23    Mr Walker

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:15 AM

View Postpantodragon, on 25 March 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

It sounds to me that rather than live well, you have stayed very carefully in your "comfort zone" all of your life.

I have never had trouble with police, neighbours, family, friends or workmates:  this is all experience of life.  If you have not had these experiences, you have not lived, and not learned to live.  You have been shut away.  You have put yourself behind bars.  Life is bad in our society.  You have to experience it to know it and learn how to deal with it.

Dont be silly No logical and rational person would deliberately expose them selves to danger without some form of reward. I work hard to make my life safe happy and productive and to help others achieve the same, but i have learned to water ski barefoot, snow ski, parachute, abseil, hanglide, surf,  race motorbikes and horses.

I even "invented" the first skate board inmy state as a teenager  in the early 60s.  Risk taking is a natural part of living and of course growing up but taking risks without evaluating the dangers and rewards is just dumb.  And many rewards are not worth the certain outcomes involved in them.

Life is NOT bad Not even when you are cold hungry and alone. It is what you make it.  I help many people inmy neighbourhood and hundreds more around the world. When we lost everything in a bushfire, people from all over australia helped us out, donating about 30000 dollars in cash offering houses and other accomodation and repalcing most of our lost possesions This was despite us being fully insured and me saking peole to give to more needy peole They wanted to give somethng to us and to deny them would have hurt them. They even made hand made quilts for us and sent letters to us. People are good, life is good, but you have to work at it.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#24    Beany

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:57 AM

View Postpantodragon, on 25 March 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

I stick to what I said: your mother was a wind-up artist.  There's nothing inherently noble about dishing out $20 to someone who asks.  There are all sorts of reasons for being "charitable" and precious few of them are kind in intention.
Stick to what you've said, sure, but realize you've made a judgment about someone who you've never met, never heard of, based on almost no information, wrapped up a lifetime of about 75 years in a couple of sentences, without ever bothering to ask questions or inform yourself. Your arrogance is breath-taking, really.


#25    Arbenol68

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:27 AM

View Postpantodragon, on 25 March 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

I do not need to depend on luck.  I have resources that are far more reliable.

Your posts suggest differently.


#26    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:39 AM

I don't know where the quote comes from, but, anyway, "Given a choice between smarts and luck, choose luck."


#27    Mr Walker

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:29 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 26 March 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

I don't know where the quote comes from, but, anyway, "Given a choice between smarts and luck, choose luck."
Luck is fickle and statistically random. You can't rely on it. Smarts is consistent and always pays off. Over a life time i can earn a lot more from smarts for example, than by winning a lottery or two. But smarts is also an evolutionary benefit; a form of fitness. Luck comes from outside and can't be relied on like internal skills knowledge and discipline.

You get smart and it passes down to others, either genetically or via learned knowledge and sjkills. In the development of smarts you develop your self, and gain other benefits. Luck gives nothing else but the luck itself.
Dumb people have realy bad luck. (In reality, a consequence of bad/poor decisions)

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#28    Beany

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:26 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 26 March 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

Luck is fickle and statistically random. You can't rely on it. Smarts is consistent and always pays off. Over a life time i can earn a lot more from smarts for example, than by winning a lottery or two. But smarts is also an evolutionary benefit; a form of fitness. Luck comes from outside and can't be relied on like internal skills knowledge and discipline.

You get smart and it passes down to others, either genetically or via learned knowledge and sjkills. In the development of smarts you develop your self, and gain other benefits. Luck gives nothing else but the luck itself.
Dumb people have realy bad luck. (In reality, a consequence of bad/poor decisions)

Smarts, hard work, and paying attention has always worked for me. I've never been lucky, maybe because I don't need to be. Definition of luck: when opportunity meets preparation.


#29    pantodragon

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:37 PM

View PostBeany, on 26 March 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

Stick to what you've said, sure, but realize you've made a judgment about someone who you've never met, never heard of, based on almost no information, wrapped up a lifetime of about 75 years in a couple of sentences, without ever bothering to ask questions or inform yourself. Your arrogance is breath-taking, really.

When I see a trunk emerging from a bush, I know there's an elephant in there.  I don't need to see the rest of the animal.  In other words, there are certain identifying features which allow one to recognise the nature of the beast --- you supplied the identifying features.


#30    pantodragon

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:38 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 26 March 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

I don't know where the quote comes from, but, anyway, "Given a choice between smarts and luck, choose luck."

That was obviously written by somebody who was as thick as two short planks.  If I was as thick as two short planks I'd opt for luck too!





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