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Gobekli Tepe's Cosmic Blueprint

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#16    lightly

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:22 PM

The constructions at Gobekli tepe are doubtless aligned to the heavens in some way...  if we had some understanding of their belief system  we might better understand their orientations?

  i guess studying their orientations is a worthy exploration in order to gain some understanding of their belief systems?

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#17    samspade

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 10:02 PM

View Postlightly, on 22 March 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

The constructions at Gobekli tepe are doubtless aligned to the heavens in some way...  if we had some understanding of their belief system  we might better understand their orientations?

  i guess studying their orientations is a worthy exploration in order to gain some understanding of their belief systems?

i tend to believe yes, and judging by some of the symbolism used, in my opinion it is screaming certain alignments.

so many of the circle structures are yet to be uncovered, im sure more evidence will will raised.
hopefully the symbolism is what i think, at this point it would be speculation on my part and
nothing i would like to share at the moment, we wait and see. what else comes up

regards,


#18    Abramelin

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:00 PM

View Postlightly, on 22 March 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

The constructions at Gobekli tepe are doubtless aligned to the heavens in some way...  if we had some understanding of their belief system  we might better understand their orientations?

  i guess studying their orientations is a worthy exploration in order to gain some understanding of their belief systems?

Well, there happens to be some doubt, and I posted about it in one of the many other threads about Göbekli Tepe:


Abstract:

Archaeologists have proposed that quite a number of structures dating to the Pre-Pottery Neolithic A and B in southwest Asia were nondomestic ritual buildings, sometimes described specifically as temples or shrines, and these figure large in some interpretations of social change in the Near Eastern Neolithic. Yet the evidence supporting the identification of cult buildings is often equivocal or depends on ethnocentric distinctions between sacred and profane spaces. This paper explores the case of Göbekli Tepe, a large Pre-Pottery Neolithic site in Turkey that its excavator claims consisted only of temples, to illustrate weaknesses in some kinds of claims about Neolithic sacred spaces and to explore some of the problems of identifying prehistoric ritual. Consideration of the evidence suggests the alternative hypothesis that the buildings at Göbekli Tepe may actually be houses, albeit ones that are rich in symbolic content.

http://www.unexplain...0


#19    lightly

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:25 AM

well,  ok,  if they were houses, they look like awfully important ones ?   So little is known about the place?  Who knows what system of ideas were at work?
I'll have to try and learn a bit about what is known about the religious and political ideas of the region around those times.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#20    lightly

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:12 PM

...  Houses are sometimes oriented to celestial bodies ..  most  Amerind dwelling's  entrances faced the rising sun , for instance.
It's being assumed that the circles at Gobekli tepe are  Temples... and maybe they are.. but they may also have had more of a Clan/Political purpose...  Or a combination of ritual and other  uses .... who knows?

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#21    Abramelin

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:48 PM

View Postlightly, on 25 March 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

...  Houses are sometimes oriented to celestial bodies ..  most  Amerind dwelling's  entrances faced the rising sun , for instance.
It's being assumed that the circles at Gobekli tepe are  Temples... and maybe they are.. but they may also have had more of a Clan/Political purpose...  Or a combination of ritual and other  uses .... who knows?

OK, maybe the entrance of the Göbekli Tepe structures is facing the sun, but that is not what you must have meant when you said they were aligned to the heavens, like a megalithic calendar or something.

From the statues and animal carvings you could conclude they were temples for several clans. Who knows indeed?


#22    lightly

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 03:58 PM

I just meant that they are most likely aligned to something skyward...  the sun.. a star.. the moon.. a planet on a certain day... whatever.  Most things were aligned to the heavens .. for one reason or another? I'm just guessing..  also about possible purposes for the structures.

Edited by lightly, 25 March 2013 - 04:00 PM.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#23    Abramelin

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:54 PM

View Postlightly, on 25 March 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

I just meant that they are most likely aligned to something skyward...  the sun.. a star.. the moon.. a planet on a certain day... whatever.  Most things were aligned to the heavens .. for one reason or another? I'm just guessing..  also about possible purposes for the structures.

If it was indeed roofed, then it had nothing to do with an alignment to something in the heavens.

If the Göbekli structures were in fact unroofed, it surely follows they were not houses. Beginning with a structural examination of the pillars, Banning suggests they are placed and buttressed in a manner that would have supported overhead wooden beams, which in turn would have been thatched. There are several hints (ranging from grooves and notches to wood) that this may in fact have been the case, and Banning has sketched one possible layout:

Posted Image

http://www.unexplain...0


.

Attached Files


Edited by Abramelin, 25 March 2013 - 05:27 PM.


#24    lightly

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:25 PM

"If it was indeed roofed, then it had nothing to do with an alignment to something in the heavens.

          Well i dunno ..  teepees and hogans are roofed and most of them have their entrances face east.. to the rising sun.    A roof wouldn't necessarily make it a house rather than a temple?  Many of the mission churches in Central and South America are aligned to solar events

http://freethoughtna...ly-aligned.html
"Ruben G. Mendoza is on a quest for light.
The 54-year old archaeologist and professor of Social and Behavioral Sciences at CSU Monterey Bay is seeking the rarest of lights: Early morning rays of the solstice sun, channeled by a centuries-old alchemy of architecture and astronomy, geometry and awe, into brilliant tabernacle illuminations at California's missions.

It's a complex blend of solar geometry and Franciscan cosmology, says Mendoza, in which churches, windows and altars were laid out in relation to the sun's position on a particular day of the year."

        I'm not saying it was a calendar,  I'm just saying  .. it's likely some aspect of the things are aligned to Something  in the sky?   More likely than not i'm guessing.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#25    Abramelin

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:32 PM

Aligning to the rising sun is not exactly the same as aligning to certain stars or constellations, right?

And why are entrances of teepees and hogans faced east?

So you will wake up by the first rays of the sun?


#26    third_eye

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:39 PM

warm tushies

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#27    lightly

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:47 PM

Well  ya , ok  maybe i went overboard with the  "aligned to the heavens in some way"  bit   ...   but the sun counts as a heavenly/celestial body.    


      and ya,  i guess they faced them East for the solar wake up service and the Warmth of the morning sun .. and probably in association with some sort of important belief?
People are very ritualistic as well as practical?

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#28    Swede

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:53 PM

View Postlightly, on 25 March 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

Well  ya , ok  maybe i went overboard with the  "aligned to the heavens in some way"  bit   ...   but the sun counts as a heavenly/celestial body.


  and ya,  i guess they faced them East for the solar wake up service and the Warmth of the morning sun .. and probably in association with some sort of important belief?
People are very ritualistic as well as practical?

Hi lightly. Merely another note. Also do not forget weather patterns/winds. Numerous structures of varying geographic/cultural/temporal background were (and are) aligned in such a manner as to place the entrance on the leeward side of the prevailing winds/storm systems.

In your region, and aside from major metropolitan areas, you will likely find few "front doors" facing the west/northwest.

.


#29    lightly

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:38 AM

View PostSwede, on 25 March 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

Hi lightly. Merely another note. Also do not forget weather patterns/winds. Numerous structures of varying geographic/cultural/temporal background were (and are) aligned in such a manner as to place the entrance on the leeward side of the prevailing winds/storm systems.

In your region, and aside from major metropolitan areas, you will likely find few "front doors" facing the west/northwest.

.

  Hiya Swede,  thank you,  yes indeed, prevailing winds were another reason for easterly entrances.  I'd actually heard of that one!  hehe.   In the case of teepees, that orientation also helped to exhaust smoke from a fire.     Your right about door orientation still being a consideration in this region.   Even practical developments are often ritualized in time?

  I was just awkwardly presenting the idea that alignments to objects in the sky was common practice by our ancestors...  i'm guessing that Gobekli tepe was no exception.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#30    Swede

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:13 AM

View Postlightly, on 26 March 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

  Hiya Swede,  thank you,  yes indeed, prevailing winds were another reason for easterly entrances.  I'd actually heard of that one!  hehe.   In the case of teepees, that orientation also helped to exhaust smoke from a fire. Your right about door orientation still being a consideration in this region.   Even practical developments are often ritualized in time?

I was just awkwardly presenting the idea that alignments to objects in the sky was common practice by our ancestors...  i'm guessing that Gobekli tepe was no exception.

Lightly - No need to feel awkward. You bring up points that are the subject of a great deal of philosophical and theoretical debate in the anthropological field.

Essentially, you are delving into some of the cultural anthropology views regarding symbolism as opposed to some of the more pragmatic interpretations of the more environmentaly/biologically oriented views of certain schools of archaeology.

The further back one goes in time, the more tenuous certain symbolic/"spiritual" interpretations become. This has been quite strongly pointed out by such cultural anthropologists as Flannery and Marcus. On somewhat of the opposing side we have the views of Hodder et al.

There are a few primary considerations to bear in mind. First, one must always be conscious of casting the perspectives of the current cultural elements on those of the past, particularly when there is a significant temporal interval.

Secondly, one would wish to be well studied in the paleoenvironmental conditions of the site under consideration. Gobekli Tepe is a good example.

As a quick third: As has been repeatedly cautioned by the PI of Gobekli Tepe, the research at this site is far from complete. To date, only three excavation blocks have been opened. There will be a great deal more data to be recovered from this site, which will aid in a more accurate interpretation of said site.

None of the above is necessarily in contradiction to your thoughts. The point is that one must be ever cautious in "jumping to conclusions" without rather extensive data.

.





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