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time is relative.


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#16    White Crane Feather

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 18 March 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:



I think so too. Perhaps the universe is basically information, the elementary particles being a manifestation of this information.  Rules have to be in place before the game can begin.

Time is also relative in the phenomena of time dilation.
Yes well time dilation is simply a function of the speed of light and how fast information can transit. The conductivity of space dictates the speed of light. Basically it's how fast virtual particles can cary the information. I think the reasons why time dilation occurres shows us without a doubt that "time" is not a thing at all. we are only perceiving changes in energy states and positions measured by ticks of our own energy states and positions. This is time. It creates the illusion of being an enabler, when in fact it's merely a record.

Edited by Seeker79, 18 March 2013 - 01:10 PM.

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#17    StarMountainKid

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:39 PM

Seeker79 said:

Yes well time dilation is simply a function of the speed of light and how fast information can transit. The conductivity of space dictates the speed of light. Basically it's how fast virtual particles can cary the information. I think the reasons why time dilation occurres shows us without a doubt that "time" is not a thing at all. we are only perceiving changes in energy states and positions measured by ticks of our own energy states and positions. This is time. It creates the illusion of being an enabler, when in fact it's merely a record.

Then, time dilation is a variation of rate of change according to frame of reference. Rates of change is what we measure, and we call this "time", but our concept that time exists as a real dimension separate from space is therefore an illusion .  Is this what you are saying?

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#18    White Crane Feather

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:45 PM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 18 March 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:



Then, time dilation is a variation of rate of change according to frame of reference. Rates of change is what we measure, and we call this "time", but our concept that time exists as a real dimension separate from space is therefore an illusion .  Is this what you are saying?

Yeah... I think. We are entities that measure. Our measurements come from signals, we perceive it as time.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#19    kystranger

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:01 PM

This may sound weird, but I see time as a function of this universe.  As members of this universe we are affected by all forces/qualities of this universe ... gravity, time, etc.  God, being outside of this universe, is not affected by time as it is a function of this universe.  I think this is why in some stories about angels, they move in time differently than us.  For example, I recall reading a story years ago about a guy that was almost in a car wreck.  As the wreck became closer, he saw his guardian angel appear and begin to help by pushing his locked steering wheel.  From what I remember (and granted this has been years) the guy in the wreck was aware of the passage of time, but it slowed considerably while he was in the presence of his angel.  This could just be an altered awareness on his part, or it could be that angels (again outside our universe) are unaffected by the forces of this universe and the angel extended this effect to the guy getting ready to crash his car.  I'll have to see if I can find the story, but regardless that's the way I see time.


#20    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:11 PM

When you are terrified the psychological passage of time does slow.  That has happened to me a few times, but I didn't attribute it to entering angelic realms but instead to some brain mechanism providing me more detail than it normally does, resulting in a seeming slowing of time.


#21    markprice

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:06 PM

View Postdanielost, on 17 March 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

(Mormon belief).  I believe god has a body simuler to ours.  Meaning he can't be everywhere at once.

(Jewish belief) The body of God is the entire universe. (Hermetic belief) The Mind of God is all. I believe in that kind of thing minus religion and oaths.

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#22    danielost

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:51 PM

View Postmarkprice, on 26 March 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:



(Jewish belief) The body of God is the entire universe. (Hermetic belief) The Mind of God is all. I believe in that kind of thing minus religion and oaths.

I'can get behind both of those ideas on god.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#23    moonshadow60

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:09 PM

I don't know about ants, but the older I become, the quicker time seems to pass.  Some days, it feels like I pretty much have to hold on tight to something to keep from spinning out into space because time has sped up so much.  Everything seems to be happening all at once in the past few years, in my perception.


#24    Rlyeh

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:35 PM

View Postdanielost, on 16 March 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Time and distance are relative.

It would take about a day for a person to walk ten miles.

To an ant that same trip would be a generational trip, if it was walking.

To an immortal, it would take no time to walk it.  This is why god can travel at the speed of thought, maybe.

All three examples experence time and distance differently.
You've left out the most important factor, speed. You've given no reason why an immortal would be traveling faster than a human.

BTW the speed of thought is a lot slower than you seem to think.


#25    Frank Merton

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

If something takes ten minutes to do, it takes the same ten minutes for anyone, immortal or not, to do it.  Besides, we all live under this illsion that we are immortal anyway, and waste our time accordingly.


#26    danielost

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:55 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 28 March 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

You've left out the most important factor, speed. You've given no reason why an immortal would be traveling faster than a human.

BTW the speed of thought is a lot slower than you seem to think.

If your talking physicql thought, it is probable faster than you think, near the speed of light.

But, that isn't what I am talking about.  What I meant is kind of like the movie "jump".  You think I want to go to paris, pop you there.

As for the immortal he doesn't have to travel any faster than we do, but to him it will seem like he just wanted to get there and now he is The mmortasl wouldn't experence time like we do.  Any more than we experience time like the ant does. To the ant we are traveling at the speed of thought.

Edited by danielost, 28 March 2013 - 05:58 PM.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#27    Rlyeh

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:16 PM

View Postdanielost, on 28 March 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

If your talking physicql thought, it is probable faster than you think, near the speed of light.
Not even close. It's actually slower than the speed of sound.

Quote

But, that isn't what I am talking about.  What I meant is kind of like the movie "jump".  You think I want to go to paris, pop you there.
Fiction then.

Quote

As for the immortal he doesn't have to travel any faster than we do, but to him it will seem like he just wanted to get there and now he is The mmortasl wouldn't experence time like we do.  Any more than we experience time like the ant does. To the ant we are traveling at the speed of thought.
Baseless assertions. The ant takes longer to travel ten miles because it does not travel as fast as a human walking.

However if this immortal is not aware of the length of his journey then he can't be called all knowing.

Edited by Rlyeh, 28 March 2013 - 06:27 PM.


#28    danielost

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:15 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 28 March 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

If something takes ten minutes to do, it takes the same ten minutes for anyone, immortal or not, to do it.  Besides, we all live under this illsion that we are immortal anyway, and waste our time accordingly.

From our point of view.  To an ant ten minutes could be life time.  To an immortal it my take that long to think of ten minutes.  Of, cousre all of that is from our point of view.

A man, a bird and a turtle see an explosion.  To the man it happened in an instance.  To the bird it takes for ever.  To the turtle it was ver so quickly it didn't even notice.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#29    Rlyeh

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:44 AM

View Postdanielost, on 28 March 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

From our point of view.  To an ant ten minutes could be life time.  To an immortal it my take that long to think of ten minutes.  Of, cousre all of that is from our point of view.

A man, a bird and a turtle see an explosion.  To the man it happened in an instance.  To the bird it takes for ever.  To the turtle it was ver so quickly it didn't even notice.
Any experiments to verify this?


#30    danielost

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:36 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 28 March 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

Not even close. It's actually slower than the speed of sound.

Fiction then.

Baseless assertions. The ant takes longer to travel ten miles because it does not travel as fast as a human walking.

However if this immortal is not aware of the length of his journey then he can't be called all knowing.

You never noticedthat they run every where.  Slowing down if they don't know which way to go.  I f we were the same size we would be the 'low ones.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.




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