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A New Muslim Plan


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#31    pallidin

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:22 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 21 March 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

Just a question , if  the mosque was built  over the rock that Abraham sacrifice his son Ishamel as the muslims do believe,and promise that land why would they want the temple of  Soloman the desendants of Isaac rebuilt.

The first conflict is over "rightful" territory. Always has been, always will.

The second conflict is the religious ideology that would control that territory. Always has been, always will.

How can there be peace under those circumstances? Never will.


#32    docyabut2

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:38 AM

View Postpallidin, on 21 March 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

The first conflict is over "rightful" territory. Always has been, always will.

The second conflict is the religious ideology that would control that territory. Always has been, always will.

How can there be peace under those circumstances? Never will.

I guess that  about sums it up.


#33    Yamato

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:57 PM

View Postand then, on 20 March 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

Akuma the essence, the very HEART of Christianity is the belief that Jesus 1 is the son of God, 2 that he died as a blood sacrifice for the sin of all mankind and 3 that he defeated death for all of us by resurrecting the third day.  I understand that most in the world do not believe this but this IS what being a Christian means.  When anyone brings into question one of those three FUNDAMENTAL assertions you can see why it would be a challenge for a Christian, no?  It undermines the heart of a belief system.  So if it seems we are attacking Quranic figures it actually is more of returning fire rather than initiating it.  Islam is fundamentally against Christianity, the very definition of "anti christ".  They deny strenuously ALL THREE of these tenets.  Yet they say we worship the same God.  I hope that clears it up.  :tu:
So you just think you're fighting a religious war, in thoughts and deeds, and so haven't evolved at all since the 10th century.   Whose tall tales we believe are no reason to kill one another.  They're a reason for self-interested governments to dupe the masses and raise their dander to fight over land, resources, and putting the money down the right money holes.

Why aren't you attacking Talmudic figures far more than Qu'ranic ones for their inconsistencies with your FUNDAMENTALS, who believe Jesus is boiling in excrement?  They're God's "chosen ones" eh?   How logically impossible that one is too.   Your thinking is as roundly confused as anyone's.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#34    and then

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:51 PM

Zecharia 2:8   Keep poking away, Yam.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#35    Yamato

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 05:52 PM

View Postand then, on 21 March 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

Zecharia 2:8   Keep poking away, Yam.
Zecharia 2:8  For thus said the LORD of hosts, after his glory sent me to the nations who plundered you, for he who touches you touches the apple of his eye:

And you're touching Palestine alright, and supporting who plunders that land, and letting a political movement full of atheists dupe you into thinking they're the Holy ones.  That's at odds with Christian values and Biblical scripture both.  The Bible doesn't say that those who believe in the Talmud or in Zionist political propaganda are the "chosen ones".  Those Johnny come latelys didn't even exist when the scripture you're citing was written. Keep on poking andie that the latest practices in the world are the closest to the originals that the scripture spoke of.   In form and in substance they have nothing to do with accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as Messiah but deny it full stop.   Citing Christian scripture to defend Zionist policy is the epitome of confusion.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#36    GoSC

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:32 AM

View Postand then, on 21 March 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

Zecharia 2:8   Keep poking away, Yam.

What about Zechariah 2:4 and Zechariah 2:11?

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#37    GoSC

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:37 AM

View PostYamato, on 21 March 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Zecharia 2:8  For thus said the LORD of hosts, after his glory sent me to the nations who plundered you, for he who touches you touches the apple of his eye:

And you're touching Palestine alright, and supporting who plunders that land, and letting a political movement full of atheists dupe you into thinking they're the Holy ones.  That's at odds with Christian values and Biblical scripture both.  The Bible doesn't say that those who believe in the Talmud or in Zionist political propaganda are the "chosen ones".  Those Johnny come latelys didn't even exist when the scripture you're citing was written. Keep on poking andie that the latest practices in the world are the closest to the originals that the scripture spoke of.   In form and in substance they have nothing to do with accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as Messiah but deny it full stop.   Citing Christian scripture to defend Zionist policy is the epitome of confusion.

The oral tradition of the Talmud began during the Babylonian captivity, and was called by Jesus himself "traditions of the elders". Didn't Jesus denounce it and desired to lead people back to the true unadulterated Mosaic law that is the written Torah. Matthew 23:13, 15, 38-39.

Edited by B Jenkins, 22 March 2013 - 01:42 AM.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#38    acidhead

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:07 AM

View PostOverSword, on 18 March 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

From the article:

The unique importance of the Temple Mount to Judaism and to Islam makes the location vulnerable to tensions and conflicts between Jews and Muslims. Usually, these incidents originate in rumors such as: “The Jews are coming today to bomb the mosques and build their Third Temple.” Obviously, false accusations and baseless suspicions like these turn the site from a holy place of prayer and love into a site of violent political demonstrations. And, consequently, potential escalation of tension brings more restrictions and discomfort to all. Who benefits from this? Surely not the believers.
While the Israeli government ensures limited public access to the Temple Mount regardless of religious beliefs, only Muslims are allowed to pray at the place, which is known to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif. Otherwise, the government has prohibited everyone except Muslims from worshipping there since 1967, due to security concerns. Nevertheless, Muslims, too, are occasionally restricted. The Jordanian Waqf which administers the site has restricted non-Muslims from entering the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque since the year 2000. What’s more, non-Muslim religious symbols are not allowed to be worn while entering the site.
Freedom of worship is an essential issue. The Temple Mount, where the First and Second Temples stood, is the holiest place to the people of Israel. However, it is no less holy to both Muslims and Christians. Since this is a location that God has announced to be a “house of prayer for all nations,” it should be a place of festivity for all believers. As all who call on the God of Abraham are brothers, Jews and Christians should be able to offer prayers there in dignity and peace along with Muslims. To cast believers out from such a place, to prevent worship there, is a heinous and, quite frankly, cruel policy, which is an offense not only to men, but to Islam. God Himself condemns anyone who forbids worship:


“And who is more unjust than he who forbids that in places for the worship of God, God’s name should be celebrated?-whose zeal is (in fact) to ruin them? It was not fitting that such should themselves enter them except in fear. For them there is nothing but disgrace in this world, and in the world to come, an exceeding torment.” (Koran 2:214)

read here: http://www.jewishpre...er/2013/03/12/#

I'd agree that this is how the true free market should work... let the people decide... if these guys guarding The Rock do not allow non-muslims inside so be it... the people will decide what is fair and what is not eventually.

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#39    Frank Merton

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:38 AM

Reminds me of security men who don't allow people who don't look hip enough from going into a hot night club


#40    and then

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:08 AM

View Postacidhead, on 22 March 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

I'd agree that this is how the true free market should work... let the people decide... if these guys guarding The Rock do not allow non-muslims inside so be it... the people will decide what is fair and what is not eventually.
Which people?  It's not exactly a democracy among those who worship on the mount.  You know, the ones who begin throwing rocks just after praying?

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#41    RavenHawk

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 06:32 PM

Rebuilding the Temple does not make sense, not even for Judaism.  The Temple is not just *a house of GOD* like any other church or mosque.  It is 'THEE' House of GOD.  The Temple was built to house the Ark of the Covenant.  Without the Ark, there is no reason to rebuild.  The Ark is lost to antiquity.  And there is no possibility to just replace the Ark.  The Ark was unique.  It was the "Presence of GOD".  Unless Obama comes forward and says it has been found intact.  But I don't think that will ever happen.  I think the Ark had its gold and jewels stripped and the tablets pulverized.  So it is meaningless to rebuild the Temple.

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#42    RavenHawk

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 06:47 PM

View PostEldorado, on 19 March 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

"A Scottish church has become the first in the UK to share its premises with Muslim worshippers.
St John's Episcopal Church in Aberdeen now welcomes hundreds of Muslims praying five times a day in their building as the nearby mosque was so small that they were forced to worship outside.
How long before Islam completely takes over the church and converts it to a mosque?  Or at least begins to dictate terms?

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#43    and then

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:16 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 01 April 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Rebuilding the Temple does not make sense, not even for Judaism.  The Temple is not just *a house of GOD* like any other church or mosque.  It is 'THEE' House of GOD.  The Temple was built to house the Ark of the Covenant.  Without the Ark, there is no reason to rebuild.  The Ark is lost to antiquity.  And there is no possibility to just replace the Ark.  The Ark was unique.  It was the "Presence of GOD".  Unless Obama comes forward and says it has been found intact.  But I don't think that will ever happen.  I think the Ark had its gold and jewels stripped and the tablets pulverized.  So it is meaningless to rebuild the Temple.
I think it is part of Judaic eschatology that the Messiah will not return until the temple is rebuilt.  The N.T. states that the Antichrist will defile a temple when he arrives in the last days so common belief is that a third Temple will be built at some point.  There is a Temple Institute that is preparing the garments, vessels and teaching the priests the rituals in preparation for the building to happen.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#44    spud the mackem

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:30 PM

Only 3 faiths have been mentioned here, Islam,Jews,Christians....but there are more Bhuddhists , Hindu's Sikhs Pagans and others than the 1st 3  all put together.so are some of us "backing the right horse",or is all religion just a figment of Human imagination.
I can imagine some stoneage guy sitting in his cave looking at the stars and suddenly thinking, who made those bright lights above me, some one bigger than me must have made them, and put them there, so I better be carefull, or he may kill me.Maybe if I am nice to him he may let me live, and so religion was born.....(just passing  thoughts from a guy who cannot believe that a God would let little kids be harmed or killed)..

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#45    Eldorado

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:44 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 01 April 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

How long before Islam completely takes over the church and converts it to a mosque?  Or at least begins to dictate terms?

Don't be silly, it's Scotland.

http://current.com/e...-in-my-foot.htm





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