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Building a new society in space...

mars human nature exploration

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#1    keithisco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 03:35 PM

I am sure that many on this forum look forward to the possible colonisation of our own Solar Sytem... but can this great endeavour succeed with Human Nature being what it is...

"Mars is the test for humanity,” Long says. “It’s the test of our character and, to me, that should be the next destination for the human species – to colonise Mars, to set up a small station and develop it gradually. If we can’t crack Mars, then forget everything else that we have ambitions for.”
The first people to visit Mars are likely to be selected for their skills and their emotional and physical suitability for the challenge. This will be a highly trained crew of “right stuff” astronauts, used to doing what they are told. But, predicts Zubrin, it will evolve. “The colony might start out as hierarchical, with a base commander and second in command, but the process of nature is going to take it in the direction of freedom.”

The above quote is from page 2 of the BBC Editorial: READ MORE http://www.bbc.com/f...iety-in-space/2


#2    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:02 PM

so we didn't wreck enough havoc on earth .. now we're going to start screwing space ?

"why should we not rely on Allah when he guided us our path . we shall certainly bear with patience all the hurt you may cause us. for those who want to put their trust in someone should put their trust in Allah.


#3    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:35 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 19 March 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

so we didn't wreck enough havoc on earth .. now we're going to start screwing space ?
That attitude is the problem, not the solution,

We are a species which explores and spreads, it is in our nature. We are also a species which learns. We have made mistakes but we are at a time in our progress where we realise this. We are becoming more aware of the damage we have caused to this planet and slowly we are beginning to take steps to reduce that damage.

We should not stay rooted to this one planet waiting for extinction because we might fail, we should venture into space because we might succeed.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#4    keithisco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:06 PM

We certainly are a species that learns, the real problem is that the learning does not override the the other Imperitive to dominate, at both a Societal and a Political Level. I cant help feeling that exploration (manned) and colonisation, of our Solar System will simply lead to the Old, Worn - Out troubles that have plagued the Earth.


#5    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:10 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 19 March 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

I cant help feeling that exploration (manned) and colonisation, of our Solar System will simply lead to the Old, Worn - Out troubles that have plagued the Earth.
Maybe, but is that reason enough not to colonise other planets? The problems caused by population growth won't go away if we remain rooted to Earth.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#6    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:13 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 19 March 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

That attitude is the problem, not the solution,

We are a species which explores and spreads, it is in our nature. We are also a species which learns. We have made mistakes but we are at a time in our progress where we realise this. We are becoming more aware of the damage we have caused to this planet and slowly we are beginning to take steps to reduce that damage.

We should not stay rooted to this one planet waiting for extinction because we might fail, we should venture into space because we might succeed.
just wait till super power nations start claiming property on space
and then the fun will begin when they fight over it

"why should we not rely on Allah when he guided us our path . we shall certainly bear with patience all the hurt you may cause us. for those who want to put their trust in someone should put their trust in Allah.


#7    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:41 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 19 March 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:


just wait till super power nations start claiming property on space
and then the fun will begin when they fight over it
Except they can't make such claims under international law.

The superpowers (and the majority of nations including all those currently capable of spaceflight) are all signatories to the United Nations Outer Space Treaty of 1967 which states:

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outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means".


"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#8    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 06:50 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 19 March 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

Except they can't make such claims under international law.

The superpowers (and the majority of nations including all those currently capable of spaceflight) are all signatories to the United Nations Outer Space Treaty of 1967 which states:
hasn't been violation of these law here on earth
what makes it different in space ?

in fact hasn't' this law been violated already if new society is being built ?
such as .. who will own this society ? united nations ?
who get to decide who goes and who don't ?
and i have gut feeling if such thing happen it'll be the rich who goes and the poor left behind

am not saying exploring space is bad thing but think about it for a minute from this prospective
isn't the monopolization of the decision is some form of claim of sovereignty ?
if super nations cannot get along on earth how would they get along on space ?
and doesn't the super power nation force their will on others regardless of laws ?
these are legimate questions which the answers would only support my opinion

"why should we not rely on Allah when he guided us our path . we shall certainly bear with patience all the hurt you may cause us. for those who want to put their trust in someone should put their trust in Allah.


#9    freetoroam

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 06:58 PM

We have not even got to the stage where we can dig to find fossils on Mars to see if life was once there and maybe find out why it died, let alone build a new society on another planet.
How about we stay here, learn how to live in peace without using  weapons to try and gain it and then go on to the next stage.
Humans do not stop learning, but that does not always mean what they learn is good. Learning how to gain power seems to be thing with humans and so far history has shown it is not always for the good of mankind.

Edited by freetoroam, 19 March 2013 - 06:59 PM.


#10    keithisco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:44 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 19 March 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Maybe, but is that reason enough not to colonise other planets? The problems caused by population growth won't go away if we remain rooted to Earth.
No, it is not, and I would never advocate giving up on the Vision. The article does raise interesting points however related to the human psyche.

The United Nations Outer Space Treaty is however fundamentally flawed in the event of an Extra - Solar land grab (say Mars)because there would be no Law that could prevent it. Legal Jurisdiction does not extend to extra - terrestrials.


#11    Render

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:19 PM

I wonder if they'll make a reality show for those on earth. Maybe not because it influences decision making a lot if you're being watched. Although, since they would literally be on another planet these effects could be overridden.

I recently was reading the following:

Sex in Space: Is it Unethical to Conceive a Child Out There?

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Sex in space is obviously one of those topics that gets people giggling, but it has a serious side too. If we are going to venture out into space, and really live there, then people are going to do everything they do on Earth — including having sex and making babies.
Seven years ago, I wrote a book called "Sex in Space." The idea came from previous book interviews I did with women astronauts like Sally Ride and Shannon Lucid. After talking with them about the challenges of being a female on the Space Shuttle and International Space Station, I became interested in what the next step of human space exploration would look like.

I felt then, and still do today, that it's important for any spacefaring society to discuss sex and reproduction beyond Earth. To put it simply, we need to know exactly what we're getting into because the consequences affect not only us, but the next generation of human beings.

http://www.livescien...x-in-space.html

Definitely something to wonder about also. Starting with: is it even possible ?

Edited by Render, 19 March 2013 - 09:20 PM.


#12    Mikko-kun

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 07:58 PM

About sex.. if you have the mood and gravity, what else you need?

Main thing I'd be concerned of would be their self-sustaining systems over periods of time. If you want to build a self-sufficient colony, you need to bring sources of food that will keep dispensing food, not just the food itself. Like bring plants and animals and things that sustain them. Depending on what minerals Mars has we might get everything from there from natural processes, and you should use processes which dont need external artificial energy since that's better used elsewhere. I've studied agriculture a bit, dont remember the basics of biology so well but the microbes and plant roots on earth digest the smallest of things and separate even atoms from each other if I remember right. Our own digestive system does that too. We could basically eat Mars-rock if it had all the prime substances, or at least our plants and microbes probably would be able to... it might take time to breed plants and microbes more suitable to eat those rocks and sands and make them more fertile, but I think that's what it'll boil down to with Marsian colonies. If you have greenhouses there on Mars, you can make good savings on the energy required to heat the colony.

As an astrologer, it'd be fascinating to see what kind of a person one bred and born in Mars would turn out to be... it'd be a Mars-centric chart instead of a geocentric one.

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