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Alternative Civil War


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#31    Detective Mystery 2015

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:42 AM

View PostG Donnelly, on 28 March 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

I always thought the American Civil War had some something to do with the rights of African- American slaves.One side opposed it while the other didn't.But when you bring politics into the mix it does add an other dimension.You know what they say about it being murky.Then it again it could be more simplistic than that.They just simply hated each others guts.Didn't Old Abe have his own retinue of slaves.They didn't exactly bring up the subject of American history in the middle nineteenth century when I was at school.It's also worth mentioning that sons were fighting dads in this conflict.

The Union won anyway and they continued to adapt the blue uniform later on when they were the cavalry subjugating the native Americans.So if the Conferderates had won would they be any less oppressive against the Indians?Considering there was a racist element inside their ranks despite their generals extra- curricular actitivies.It could be they wern't  as full of the frontier spirit as their foes up north.However the southern states are much warmer overall.There wasn't any sudden urge to walk into the desert.

Both slavery and states rights played roles. It also was a combination of other factors. If slavery was not in the equation, I would have completely supported the CSA. Secession would have been more justified. Of course, Lee opposed even that. He led the CSA troops out of loyalty to his home state of Virginia. Many other Confederates fought for the same reason. Of course, it's easier to judge individuals in the past when we have the luxury of existing in another place and time. As for Native Americans, some of them indeed fought for the South. Some of them even owned slaves, as did some Black people. Latin Americans and foreign people fought for both sides too. It was quite complicated. There were abolitionists in the South too. One or more areas supported the North. A state (West Virginia), as well as some counties (one in northeastern Tennessee), seceded from the Confederacy. There was virulent racism in the North too, so it's not as simplistic as some history books try to make it out to be.

As for frontier spirit, many people in the southern states descend from people like Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett. The war lasted as long as it did because so many Confederate troops were skilled fighters, riders, shooters, etc.. They were some of the best soldiers in the world. The Union troops contained valiant heroes too.

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#32    TheSearcher

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:26 AM

View PostEverdred, on 27 March 2013 - 03:17 AM, said:

I'd bring back an old 386 computer with the "Ancients" CD-ROM.

OOOOOOOOHHH you evil man!!!

Having said that, I'd bring them Zoser, after both parties listen to his inane tales about aliens, peace breaks out because of the sheer boredom.......

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#33    The Silver Thong

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:47 AM

Would really not make dif

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#34    Kowalski

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:24 PM

View PostHilander, on 25 March 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

Antibiotics.  Wasn't nothing going to stop that war it had to happen but antibiotics would of saved a lot of people from painful amputations.

Good idea! :tu:

View PostMiskatonicGrad, on 26 March 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

A really good and accurate history book.

"General Jackson, I don't think it is such a good idea you scout the road tonite"

that would pretty much take care of it.

Then the south would have won! :yes:


#35    Kowalski

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:38 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 29 March 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

Both slavery and states rights played roles. It also was a combination of other factors. If slavery was not in the equation, I would have completely supported the CSA. Secession would have been more justified. Of course, Lee opposed even that. He led the CSA troops out of loyalty to his home state of Virginia. Many other Confederates fought for the same reason. Of course, it's easier to judge individuals in the past when we have the luxury of existing in another place and time. As for Native Americans, some of them indeed fought for the South. Some of them even owned slaves, as did some Black people. Latin Americans and foreign people fought for both sides too. It was quite complicated. There were abolitionists in the South too. One or more areas supported the North. A state (West Virginia), as well as some counties (one in northeastern Tennessee), seceded from the Confederacy. There was virulent racism in the North too, so it's not as simplistic as some history books try to make it out to be.

As for frontier spirit, many people in the southern states descend from people like Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett. The war lasted as long as it did because so many Confederate troops were skilled fighters, riders, shooters, etc.. They were some of the best soldiers in the world. The Union troops contained valiant heroes too.

I agree! I have just finished reading the "North and South" Trilogy, and I really was not prepared for how racist much of the North was. Some were against slavery, and many thought they should be free, but they did not think they were equal. A lot of Yankee soldiers said they weren't fighting to "free the *insert very ugly word here*"
I think that's what made Southerners so mad, was the hypocrisy of the North. Even after the war, there were several Northern states, that didn't allow blacks to vote, yet they (Washington) enforced it militarily in the South during Reconstruction!
The Civil War is a lot more complicated then we are led to believe in history books. Also keep in mind the only people with slaves were the plantation aristocrats who were very wealthy. Most Southerners were poor and didn't own slaves.


#36    Bonecrusher

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:48 PM

View PostTesla II, on 28 March 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

I would bring the most lethal of them all, hackers.
That will never work because you need computers as well to hack.You can't have one without the other.I don't think any of the mid nineteenth weaponry was running on automated systems.So the Conferederate fellers can have the computers while the Union guys can bring in Matthew Broderick's character out of War Games.Then you can either play tic tac toe or thermonuclear war.Abraham Lincoln can have the launch codes.But because it's a simulation he dosn't have to chain the briefcase with the launch codes to his wrist.The weaponry has to be able to run off the technology of the time.Besides if you doing it for real you would have to bring in the entire nuclear arsenal.But it won't be world war three unless your really silly and arm Tsarist russia as well.

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#37    Rlyeh

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 04:00 PM

An aircraft carrier, loaded with jets, guns, and... walkie-talkies.


#38    ealdwita

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:29 PM

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#39    Detective Mystery 2015

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 02:51 AM

View PostKowalski, on 30 March 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

I agree! I have just finished reading the "North and South" Trilogy, and I really was not prepared for how racist much of the North was. Some were against slavery, and many thought they should be free, but they did not think they were equal. A lot of Yankee soldiers said they weren't fighting to "free the *insert very ugly word here*"
I think that's what made Southerners so mad, was the hypocrisy of the North. Even after the war, there were several Northern states, that didn't allow blacks to vote, yet they (Washington) enforced it militarily in the South during Reconstruction!
The Civil War is a lot more complicated then we are led to believe in history books. Also keep in mind the only people with slaves were the plantation aristocrats who were very wealthy. Most Southerners were poor and didn't own slaves.

There were many horrid acts in both regions of the country. All of them were reprehensible. Some slaves were treated in a cruel and savage manner. Black people were lynched during the Draft Riots in New York City. Nat Turner's mobs murdered sleeping babies and children, as well as women. John Brown engaged in acts of terrorism. William Quantrill led his raiders on homicidal crime sprees in the border states. There were few clean hands. Some of the worst atrocities took place in prison camps during the Civil War. Andersonville was the most notorious one, but it had northern versions in which many southern soldiers perished. War crimes took place in both Confederate and Union prison camps. They also took place during Sherman's campaign.

Slavery was not limited to rich White Southerners. They just had the most slaves. Less wealthy White people, as well as a relatively few Black people and Native American people, also had slaves. You were right in that *most* individuals did not have slaves.

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#40    Bonecrusher

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 11:29 AM

View Postealdwita, on 30 March 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

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#41    jaylemurph

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:04 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 31 March 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

Some slaves were treated in a cruel and savage manner.

I'd say /by definition/ all slaves were treated in a cruel and savage manner.

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#42    Detective Mystery 2015

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 02:22 AM

View Postjaylemurph, on 31 March 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

I'd say /by definition/ all slaves were treated in a cruel and savage manner.

--Jaylemurph

There were gradations of the cruelty inherent in slavery. I spoke in relative terms. Not all slaves were treated like the ones found in "Roots", the book or the miniseries. That said, there was nothing kind about the institution, itself.

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#43    DieChecker

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:27 AM

I'd probably help the South develop steam based harvesters. Without the need for cheap black slave labor, the South would not resist the end of slavery and thus would not secede from the Union starting the Civil War.

Also killing Lincoln before he got elected probably would have prevented the war, and proably would have pushed freeing the slaves out another 20 years...

Of course neither of these would do poor blacks that much good. But, that was not the question of this thread.

Introducing a modern disease... maybe bird flu... against one side might also decide the war a lot quicker.

Edited by DieChecker, 01 April 2013 - 04:28 AM.

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#44    BiffSplitkins

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:07 PM

Also, I would bring these guys, I could make a fourtune selling civil war items to them.  :D


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#45    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 02:32 PM

View PostG Donnelly, on 30 March 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

That will never work because you need computers as well to hack.You can't have one without the other.I don't think any of the mid nineteenth weaponry was running on automated systems.So the Conferederate fellers can have the computers while the Union guys can bring in Matthew Broderick's character out of War Games.Then you can either play tic tac toe or thermonuclear war.Abraham Lincoln can have the launch codes.But because it's a simulation he dosn't have to chain the briefcase with the launch codes to his wrist.The weaponry has to be able to run off the technology of the time.Besides if you doing it for real you would have to bring in the entire nuclear arsenal.But it won't be world war three unless your really silly and arm Tsarist russia as well.

Really? I didnt know that, i thought they will use their heads to knock off enemy dishes...  

And now that we got that straight i would use them to infect military computers with various viruses and bugs...My group would try to cut off pentagon from outside if this was a theoretical scenario.. Smart people are best weapons not material things...

Edit: You dont use nukes in civil war.. dont watch so many movies man..

Edited by Tesla II, 02 April 2013 - 02:43 PM.

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