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Amanda Knox & Raffaele Sollecito re-trial


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#16    skookum

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:36 PM

Whole thing is pointless.  The US see all their citizens innocent of everything abroad, hence why you always hear 'you can't do this I am an American'.  She is out, earning millions and will escape any further trials.

The re-trial is unrealistic.

The extradition figures came up between the UK and the USA.  In the last 3 years 14 people had been extradited to America to face charges.  0 people have been extradited from the USA to face charges in the UK from more than 30 applications.  Says it all really.

Edited by skookum, 26 March 2013 - 06:44 PM.

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#17    MissMelsWell

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:05 PM

View PostQueen in the North, on 26 March 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

I never said it was her intention, but as it stands she's making $4 million out of this murder, whether she did it or not. Doesn't look too good if all you want is to get your story out there.

She and her family have over 4 million in legal and travel costs. They're in debt well beyond their means. It's near impossible to dig yourself out of that kind of debt. She is innocent and she has every right to tell her story and be paid for it. It's not like she can start a civil suit for the slander and defamation they perpetrated against HER. Yes, Meredith was the victim, but so is Knox.

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#18    skookum

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:32 PM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 26 March 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

She and her family have over 4 million in legal and travel costs. They're in debt well beyond their means. It's near impossible to dig yourself out of that kind of debt. She is innocent and she has every right to tell her story and be paid for it. It's not like she can start a civil suit for the slander and defamation they perpetrated against HER. Yes, Meredith was the victim, but so is Knox.

I rest my case.

BOTH trials said to have serious flaws in them, yet you know for sure she is innocent?

Is it like America knows everyone held without trial in guantanamo bay is guilty?

Edited by skookum, 26 March 2013 - 07:40 PM.

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#19    Queen in the North

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:50 PM

View Postskookum, on 26 March 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

I rest my case.

BOTH trials said to have serious flaws in them, yet you know for sure she is innocent?

Is it like America knows everyone held without trial in guantanamo bay is guilty?
Duh, of course she's innocent. She's American, and all countries who try jailing Americans are still living in the middle ages and have no idea what they're doing...

/sarcasm.

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#20    MissMelsWell

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:51 PM

View Postskookum, on 26 March 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

Whole thing is pointless.  The US see all their citizens innocent of everything abroad, hence why you always hear 'you can't do this I am an American'.  She is out, earning millions and will escape any further trials.

The re-trial is unrealistic.

The extradition figures came up between the UK and the USA.  In the last 3 years 14 people had been extradited to America to face charges.  0 people have been extradited from the USA to face charges in the UK from more than 30 applications.  Says it all really.

The real reason is because the US won't extradite in this case is because they won't extradite when it's breaking constitutional law. In this case, the constitutional law that's being broken is double-jepordy. No way will the US extradite her because of that.

If you can't touch a US  citizen (which is BS) she never would have served a day... Even if the Italian courts judge her to be 100% guilty, they wouldn't send her back, because she was acquitted! Acquitted is acquitted in constitutional law.... you can't try someone for the same crime twice! Just ask OJ Simpson! She won't get sent back to Italy just so they can violate her constitutional rights. It's just not going to happen.

Edited by MissMelsWell, 26 March 2013 - 08:03 PM.

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#21    Queen in the North

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:56 PM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 26 March 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

If you can't touch a US  citizen (which is BS) she never would have served a day... Even if the Italian courts judge her to be 100% guilty, they wouldn't send her back, because she was acquitted! Acquitted is acquitted in constitutional law.... you can't try someone for the same crime twice! Just ask OJ Simpson!
So what happens (generally, not this case) if new evidence comes to light which is definite proof that the person did commit the crime?

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#22    MissMelsWell

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:12 PM

View PostQueen in the North, on 26 March 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

So what happens (generally, not this case) if new evidence comes to light which is definite proof that the person did commit the crime?

Again, look at OJ Simpson... it doesn't matter. Yes, OJ is in jail now, but that was for a totally diffrent crime. Everyone knows OJ was guilty (as was Casey Anthony) but they can NEVER be tried ever again for murder of those people. Ever. They could come right out and say "I did this, this is how I did it, and I'm glad I did it" and there would be nothing anyone could do. OJ has more or less admitted he did it (after he lost the civil case).  

What can happen, is that someone could be sued in a civil court for the same crime, and OJ was... he was found guilty in civil court and forced to pay damages to the victims families, but no jail time of course because civil court isn't criminal court).

Technically, Amanda Knox, were she guilty, which I don't believe for a second she was... could theortically say "Yes I did it!" here in Seattle... everyone would be shocked, and we STILL wouldn't send her back to Italy or even arrest her here! It's clearly written into the constitution that you cannot be retried for the same crime after you were acquitted once already.

Edited by MissMelsWell, 26 March 2013 - 08:14 PM.

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#23    skookum

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:15 PM

Wait to her film comes out.

Let me guess.  Poor little middle class girl who travels the world on the American dream and meets a manipulative Italian, along with lovely friends.  The murder happens and they become falsely convicted.  They will get sent to prisons that will be portrayed as more like the Burma railway or a Nazi death camp.  She will be a victim of various kinds of  abuse and will contemplate suicide on many occasions.   In her desperation she is forced to learn the Italian language to survive.  She is only allowed very limited outside contact.  Then her loving parents sell everything to find a lawyer who who will initially say the the chances of getting out are very slim. They will discredit the victim and family and show what a nasty corrupt justice system exists in Europe and win by American ingenuity.  She returns to America a broken wreck with some small scenes of her hugging her family but remaining a broken person for the rest of her life.

This will undoutably be a Sunday afternoon film. The re-trial  request will be written at the end in white letters on a black screen before the credits.

Edited by skookum, 26 March 2013 - 08:31 PM.

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#24    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:30 PM

View PostLady Kasey, on 26 March 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

I'm trying to understand why the Italians are so hell-bent on putting this girl behind bars.
I'm suspecting it's because they think she's guilty?

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#25    Queen in the North

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:48 PM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 26 March 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

Again, look at OJ Simpson... it doesn't matter. Yes, OJ is in jail now, but that was for a totally diffrent crime. Everyone knows OJ was guilty (as was Casey Anthony) but they can NEVER be tried ever again for murder of those people. Ever. They could come right out and say "I did this, this is how I did it, and I'm glad I did it" and there would be nothing anyone could do. OJ has more or less admitted he did it (after he lost the civil case).  

What can happen, is that someone could be sued in a civil court for the same crime, and OJ was... he was found guilty in civil court and forced to pay damages to the victims families, but no jail time of course because civil court isn't criminal court).

Technically, Amanda Knox, were she guilty, which I don't believe for a second she was... could theortically say "Yes I did it!" here in Seattle... everyone would be shocked, and we STILL wouldn't send her back to Italy or even arrest her here! It's clearly written into the constitution that you cannot be retried for the same crime after you were acquitted once already.
The OJ Simpson case was a bit before my time... having a read up about it now. Obviously I've heard of him, but never knew about the case in any great detail.

Yeah... we got rid of that rule a few years ago. It doesn't make much sense to me. I get that if you are found innocent they can't just say "Oh, well we're sure you did it, let's have another trial until you are found guilty", but when significant new evidence (like DNA) comes to light -- or when someone admits it after the trial, though no one will do that here seeing as we no longer have the double jeopardy rule -- it seems (to me, at least) that it should be re-visited.

ETA: If they admit they did it later, can't they then be tried in the criminal courts for perjury?

Edited by Queen in the North, 26 March 2013 - 08:51 PM.

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#26    Child of Bast

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:04 PM

Just a little information on double-jeopardy since everyone's throwing that term around:

Quote

Determining when jeopardy terminates is no less important than determining when it begins, but it is a little more complicated. Once jeopardy has terminated, the government cannot detain someone for additional court proceedings on the same matter without raising double jeopardy questions. If jeopardy does not terminate at the conclusion of one proceeding, jeopardy is said to be "continuing," and further criminal proceedings are permitted. Jeopardy can terminate in four instances:
    1) after acquittal
    2) after dismissal
    3) after a mistrial
    4) on appeal after conviction

Source

Since this is a case being appealed, double-jeopardy does not apply.

Further, if this an appeal to a higher court, it will be considered the same trial and double-jeopardy won't apply.

Edited by Lady Kasey, 26 March 2013 - 09:04 PM.

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#27    Purifier

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:12 PM

Yeah I'm afraid the U.S. Government over here isn't going to bother extraditing her for the Italians. They never do it for any other country.

I'm pretty sure most of the Europeans, by now can tell how much the U.S. Government gives a crap about stuff like that. But maybe one day some of us insignificant peons over here can get things like that changed, but don't hold your breathe. That may take a whole change in government before something like that is even looked at.

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#28    Wickian

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:44 PM

View Postskookum, on 26 March 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

I rest my case.

BOTH trials said to have serious flaws in them, yet you know for sure she is innocent?

Is it like America knows everyone held without trial in guantanamo bay is guilty?
That and the fact that none of her DNA or fingerprints were found anywhere near the victim's body, but plenty of DNA of the man currently in jail(Rudy Guede) was found in and around her as well as a bloody handprint on her pillow matching his hand.  This same man was also caught trying to flee the country with the victim's laptop and also confessed to the murder.  As well as many other relevant facts I don't feel need to be listed.

What else is there to say?


#29    docyabut2

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:19 PM

View PostWickian, on 26 March 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

That and the fact that none of her DNA or fingerprints were found anywhere near the victim's body, but plenty of DNA of the man currently in jail(Rudy Guede) was found in and around her as well as a bloody handprint on her pillow matching his hand.  This same man was also caught trying to flee the country with the victim's laptop and also confessed to the murder.  As well as many other relevant facts I don't feel need to be listed.

What else is there to say?

I agree Amanda and her boy friend were there but to dugged up to know what was going on. The roommate`s boyfriend was most likey the killer, but in to reopening the case they have to present some new evidence, wonder what it is.

Edited by docyabut2, 26 March 2013 - 10:19 PM.


#30    skookum

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:48 PM

View PostPurifier, on 26 March 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

Yeah I'm afraid the U.S. Government over here isn't going to bother extraditing her for the Italians. They never do it for any other country.

I'm pretty sure most of the Europeans, by now can tell how much the U.S. Government gives a crap about stuff like that. But maybe one day some of us insignificant peons over here can get things like that changed, but don't hold your breathe. That may take a whole change in government before something like that is even looked at.

I wonder how different it would have worked out if the victim was an American and the accused British?

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