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Arming Civilian Army With Recent Purchases


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#16    OverSword

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:55 PM

View PostStellar, on 26 March 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

My question is this: Why do people believe that the government forming and arming the DHS is a sign that the government is about to enslave the people? I mean, if the government wanted to enslave the people, why would they have to arm the DHS to do it when they already have a fully equipped military that is capable of doing the same job?
Because the armed forces of the US take an oath to defend the constitution of the United States of America against all enemies both foreign and domestic.  The civilian (police) force of the Department of Homeland Security likely have a different oath and are probably more loyal to thier paycheck

Now I just read your response where you say: if the government wants to become tyrannical and enslave you, do you really think they'll carr about what the constitution says about there being no standing army within the US?

So do you think that your answer shows that they really don't give a darn about our constitution perhaps?  And as far as enslave, who said anything about enslave, when you are using bullets and tanks you merely enslave the survivors.  If it was only about enslavement they've done a thorough job of that with the criminal ponzi banking and tax system that we are already for the most part enslaved by.

Edited by OverSword, 26 March 2013 - 09:59 PM.


#17    OverSword

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:58 PM

View PostOverSword, on 26 March 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

Because the armed forces of the US take an oath to defend the constitution of the United States of America against all enemies both foreign and domestic.  T
In my opinion our military forces are in the process of being unbudgeted (so to speak) and spread so thin that if the time comes that military leaders feel that the so called civilian national security force must be resisted they will be very hard put to accomplish this.


#18    Stellar

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:02 PM

View PostOverSword, on 26 March 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

Because the armed forces of the US take an oath to defend the constitution of the United States of America against all enemies both foreign and domestic.  The civilian (police) force of the Department of Homeland Security likely have a different oath and are probably more loyal to thier paycheck

Now I just read your response where you say: if the government wants to become tyrannical and enslave you, do you really think they'll carr about what the constitution says about there being no standing army within the US?

So do you think that your answer shows that they really don't give a darn about our constitution perhaps?  And as far as enslave, who said anything about enslave, when you are using bullets and tanks you merely enslave the survivors.  If it was only about enslavement they've done a thorough job of that with the criminal ponzi banking and tax system that we are already for the most part enslaved by.

So the only thing that prevents a person from being used to force tyranny against their fellow American is an oath?

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#19    OverSword

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:12 PM

View PostStellar, on 26 March 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

So the only thing that prevents a person from being used to force tyranny against their fellow American is an oath?
Answer that by telling me how you feel about your oath and the people who break it.


#20    ealdwita

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:12 PM

It makes me wonder if the 'downsizing' of the Armed Forces in the UK has a darker motive than merely a financial one. If insurrection appears on the streets of this country, the old question "Would troops take action against their own countrymen?" becomes irrelevant, because a foreign (EU) force could be employed to do the job, without much interference from the few British troops left!

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#21    OverSword

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:15 PM

View Postealdwita, on 26 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

It makes me wonder if the 'downsizing' of the Armed Forces in the UK has a darker motive than merely a financial one. If insurrection appears on the streets of this country, the old question "Would troops take action against their own countrymen?" becomes irrelevant, because a foreign (EU) force could be employed to do the job, without much interference from the few British troops left!
that is why tyrants always man thier police forces with non-local policemen, makes it easier for them to mistreat the people they are policing.

Edited by OverSword, 26 March 2013 - 10:15 PM.


#22    F3SS

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:25 PM

View PostStellar, on 26 March 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:



Is the US military really indoctrinated to defend the constitution? I mean, how does this indoctrination happen? What does the military do that the DHS avoids to indoctrinate soldiers to defend the constitution?


if the government wants to become tyrannical and enslave you, do you really think they'll carr about what the constitution says about there being no standing army within the US?



The Iraq war was characterized by mainly IEDs. To assume that the Iraq war is an accurate benchmark for how much ammo would be used in a true war against a standing army would be wrong.

As for why they did buy all that ammo? I don't know. Could be a number of reasons. I don't know which one. I just don't see why the DHS purchasing ammo automatically means they're out to enslave you.
Oversword answered, the oath. Sure an oath is only words but there is a matter of man and integrity. It is important to many and engrained in their souls. Men of honor and integrity uphold their words, oaths and promises. The selfish and the cowardish follow their paychecks.
I used the comparison because one was made some time ago. Bullets are used in the war and someone figured the DHS has bought an amount of bullets equal to fighting the same war the same way for 25 years. You're worse than a woman with your aha and gotcha moments. Sorry ladies.
I don't know why either. I'm speculating and not automatically assuming anything. Just trying to have a conversation. The thing you always tell people is to stop acting like they can do something about it, whatever it is. Even if that were the case why do insist on telling everyone to sit down, shut up and take it? I know why we don't. It's called integrity.

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#23    Stellar

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:46 PM

Quote

Oversword answered, the oath. Sure an oath is only words but there is a matter of man and integrity. It is important to many and engrained in their souls. Men of honor and integrity uphold their words, oaths and promises.

So youre saying that an oath is the only thing keeping  someone  ethical?

An ethical man will  be ethical regardless of an oath. An unethical man will also remain unethical regardless of oath.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#24    F3SS

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:51 PM

No, I'm saying what you just said. You always want explanation after explanation. Some just get it and some don't. Why'd you dodge my question?

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#25    regeneratia

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:55 PM

I do'nt belive that local police should be under the Fed's command. We pay them here. They should work for the area in which they are paid. I don't trust Obama. You know, the guy who wants to remove our rights to guns.

I also think that when it comes to warring between the civilians and the Fed, the civilians best asset is their police force. I know that there are police out there that are NOT willing to do the bidding of some yahoo politician, like the one in the Oval Office, so far removed from NORMAL society, dubiously housed in the skewed world of Washington, DC!!!!

And oh gods, the horrible people that come from the University of Chicago!! Leo Strauss comes to mind. What a horrible guy!!!

When the choice comes to choose between The Fed and The People, and it seems so much like that choice is coming, the average soldier and the average policeman are most likely to choose The People.

Edited by regeneratia, 27 March 2013 - 12:00 AM.

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#26    Stellar

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:07 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 26 March 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

No, I'm saying what you just said. You always want explanation after explanation. Some just get it and some don't. Why'd you dodge my question?

Because my laptop keyboard broke. The on-screen keyboard is a pain

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#27    F3SS

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:45 AM

Then you have to get back to me. I won't forget.

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#28    Stellar

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:09 PM

Quote

The thing you always tell people is to stop acting like they can do something about it, whatever it is. Even if that were the case why do insist on telling everyone to sit down, shut up and take it? I know why we don't. It's called integrity.

I have never once told anyone that they can not do anything about "it", nor do I tell people to "take it". I am a strong believer in shaping your own future... in taking action for what is right, rather than living life on the sidelines. What I want, though, is for people to understand what they are doing. I find people these days want to feel oppressed. Why? Because it gives them someone to blame other than themselves for their own misery. That's why, no matter what is done, people cry out "tyranny". They scream out "tyranny" at absolutely everything now, whether it actually is tyranny or not.

Edit to add:

I think that one of the reasons that people seem to portray the world as progressing deeper and deeper into a dystopia is because it's human nature. Dystopian societies induce "excitement" and the "emotion", while utopia is mundane. That's why dystopian novels and stories are much more popular than utopian ones. That's why I think so many people have a dystopic outlook on society. That's my perspective, at least.

Edited by Stellar, 27 March 2013 - 03:13 PM.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#29    OverSword

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:23 PM

Stellar, will you please respond to this from yesterday;

Posted ImageStellar, on 26 March 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

So the only thing that prevents a person from being used to force tyranny against their fellow American is an oath?


Then I asked;
Answer that by telling me how you feel about your oath and the people who break it.

Believe it or not Stellar, I respect and understand your opinions on these matters and get where you come from, though I may not agree.

Edited by OverSword, 27 March 2013 - 03:25 PM.


#30    Stellar

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:34 PM

Quote

Answer that by telling me how you feel about your oath and the people who break it.

My Oath? What do you know of any oath I took?

My feeling about "oaths" are that they're symbolic and nothing more. I don't feel any different towards a man that broke his oath and did something wrong and a man that did something wrong without having taken an oath.

Not taking an oath is not a scapegoat. It doesn't give you permission to behave differently. A man will either follow the principles laid out in an oath or they will not. The act of taking the oath truly has no meaning other than as some romanticized symbolism of principles.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina




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