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Arming Civilian Army With Recent Purchases


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#31    OverSword

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:08 PM

View PostStellar, on 27 March 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

My Oath? What do you know of any oath I took?

Since you have alluded to your training soldiers I assumed you took some type of loyalty oath.  People that take pride in what they do and have taken oaths concerning it generally take thier oaths and words of honor seriously.

edit to add that for myself, when I give my word I follow it through. Maybe my sense of honor is why I'm outraged by some of the implied hostile actions taken by my government which is supposedly for the people and by the people.  Maybe it's your sense of honor which makes it that you're not outraged.

Edited by OverSword, 27 March 2013 - 04:14 PM.


#32    Stellar

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:16 PM

View PostOverSword, on 27 March 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Since you have alluded to your training soldiers I assumed you took some type of loyalty oath.  People that take pride in what they do and have taken oaths concerning it generally take thier oaths and words of honor seriously.

edit to add that for myself, when I give my word I follow it through. Maybe my sense of honor is why I'm outraged by some of the implied hostile actions taken by my government which is supposedly for the people and by the people.  Maybe it's your sense of honor which makes it that you're not outraged.

Perhaps unlike yours, my sense of honor extends far past mere spoken words.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#33    godnodog

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:31 PM

I usually don´t take oaths, first because I usually don´t know or possibly understand all facts involved.

Take for example the oath i HAD (not given a choice, or better the alternative was not exacly a choice) to TAKE to uphold the constitution of my country. If the constitution was changed, in my case Portugal´s contitution, by the Parlament and without a referendum, am I still bound to that oath? And what if the change was unethical and possibly even criminal in my view, am I still bound to it?

Take another example, young people (remember the nazis) take their oaths in countries that do not comply with basic human rights, not upholding that oath  when you grow older and become more experinced and wiser, does that turn these people into people without integrity?

Oaths are words, situations and personal perspectives in a given moment matter most.

Take another example, US Government vs Bradley Manning, how does the oath stuff works here? Is the oath 1 way only, a oath is to be followed by most people except a few.  (I am not defending or accusing Mr. Bradley).

Have a nice day.

Edited by godnodog, 27 March 2013 - 04:33 PM.


#34    OverSword

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:35 PM

View PostStellar, on 27 March 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Perhaps unlike yours, my sense of honor extends far past mere spoken words.
Or perhaps my honor extends to my words.

And how can anyone believe you have honor at all since to quote you:

The act of taking the oath truly has no meaning other than as some romanticized symbolism of principles.

I take that statement to mean your word means little to you as long as you can justify your actions.  Nothing wrong with that I suppose if you can live with it.

Edited by OverSword, 27 March 2013 - 04:37 PM.


#35    Stellar

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:00 PM

View PostOverSword, on 27 March 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:


And how can anyone believe you have honor at all since to quote you:

The act of taking the oath truly has no meaning other than as some romanticized symbolism of principles.

Because actions are stronger than words. If you think that you need to state something in an oath in order to have principles, then you have a very shallow sense of honor as it is.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#36    Bama13

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:32 PM

View PostStellar, on 27 March 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Because actions are stronger than words. If you think that you need to state something in an oath in order to have principles, then you have a very shallow sense of honor as it is.

I think what he is saying is that a part of having honor is to stand behind your words. If you say you are going to do something (words) then you should do it (action).

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

#37    OverSword

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:46 PM

View PostStellar, on 27 March 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Because actions are stronger than words. If you think that you need to state something in an oath in order to have principles, then you have a very shallow sense of honor as it is.
But don't you think that if you have honor then your word means alot to you?  I do.

I agree, actions do speak louder than words, and simply taking others at thier word is a mistake, as I have pointed out when speaking about politicians, I never listen to what they say I watch what they do.


#38    Stellar

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:54 PM

View PostBama13, on 27 March 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:



I think what he is saying is that a part of having honor is to stand behind your words. If you say you are going to do something (words) then you should do it (action).

And my point is that you should do the right thing regardless of words. My broader point is that a man will not behave unethically simply because he did not give an oath to do otherwise.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#39    Stellar

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:56 PM

View PostOverSword, on 27 March 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

But don't you think that if you have honor then your word means alot to you?  I do.

I agree, actions do speak louder than words, and simply taking others at thier word is a mistake, as I have pointed out when speaking about politicians, I never listen to what they say I watch what they do.

Words have meaning, but a person will act honorably whether they are held to do so by an oath or not. Those that are dishonorable will also act dishonorably regardless of any oath they have taken.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#40    RavenHawk

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:00 PM

View PostStellar, on 26 March 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

So youre saying that an oath is the only thing keeping  someone  ethical?

An ethical man will  be ethical regardless of an oath. An unethical man will also remain unethical regardless of oath.

Tell that to the Brownshirts!  Don't you think they were being ethical?  There were very patriotic.  You had a community organizer spreading his charisma making the people believe that he was the savior.  And all he was doing was positioning chess pieces so that he could take total control.  That is what is going on right now.  I'm not saying that Obama has a "Final Solution" but his intent is clear and we don't have to look too far into history for the lesson.  The Sturmabteilung (SA) became stronger than the weakened military, then in order for the military to be a part of its nation's history (to be relevant), in one fell swoop the military took a new oath to Hitler.  And then the SA became obsolete.  DHS could be used in the same way.  And those in it right now would feel that they are being ethical.  However, I am a part of DHS by being employed by the DOE.  The DOE is full of vets and as far as I am aware of, the oath I took never expired when I mustered out.  I don't think the ranks are so enamored with the current POTUS.  But there could be a purging of the ranks if you don't tote the party line.  That actually started in 2009 and this sequester could be a tool in accomplishing the end goal.

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#41    Babe Ruth

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:46 PM

View PostStellar, on 27 March 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

And my point is that you should do the right thing regardless of words. My broader point is that a man will not behave unethically simply because he did not give an oath to do otherwise.

That is true, but sometimes an oath will make the taker more aware of certain principles, and actually CAUSE him to behave more ethically than he might have without that awareness.


#42    Babe Ruth

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:55 PM

View PostStellar, on 26 March 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

My question is this: Why do people believe that the government forming and arming the DHS is a sign that the government is about to enslave the people? I mean, if the government wanted to enslave the people, why would they have to arm the DHS to do it when they already have a fully equipped military that is capable of doing the same job?

For me, the question you pose is the $64,000 question.

And part of the answer, like it or not, is that this nation did very well for 200+ years WITHOUT the DHS, and that DHS came directly from the staged events of 11 September.  DHS was brought to us by deception, just like the GWOT.

Not pleasant to contemplate, but sometimes the truth is that way.


#43    Allterspace

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:31 AM

View PostOverSword, on 26 March 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

For those that mock preppers, I put it to you, DHS is the biggest prepper in the nation.

Ask yourself, with all the tens of thousands of tanks and billions of rounds of ammo, just who are they prepping for?

Write your senators and congressmen.  Demand that DHS turn all of thier equipment over to the DOD, the entity which is supposed to defend us.  Demand that they Disband the SS errr Imean DHS.

Dont forget they also bought targets of pregnant women, children, and old people. And admitted to using them to train agents to become emotionless killing machines.


#44    Drayno

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:55 AM

Civilian National Security Force = SS

"Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings."
- William Shakespeare, Richard II, Act III, Scene II
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#45    AsteroidX

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:11 AM

Quote

Civilian National Security Force = SS

Quoted for EMPHASIS !! :gun:





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