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Born of water


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#1    desert palm tree

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:51 PM

Who is born of water and spirit ?
    Regeneration , born again : of water and spirit: born of God. This is Jesus doctrine. Water, Serpent is a symbol of spirituality , power, wave, electromagnetic spectrum. Snakes understands almost all kind of vibrations from sonic to cosmic rays. We are all the children of serpents, wisdom and love.
  In Oromo and ancient Egyptian cosmology, Oromo or Atum created from or out of water. Oromo came from mada walaabu. Infinite ocean of water and spirit  no one knows " where it comes from and where it is going. "


#2    Mr Walker

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

Since primeval times water and spirit have been recognised as very similar but opposite sides of the same coin. Both bring life and rejuvenation one physiclaly the othe rspiritually both flow ebb and  change In christianity  humans need to be washed, or born again, in water (physically) and in the spirit (spiritually) to cleanse and renew the whole body.

The process of physical birth, for early humans, probably created the concept of water being a vital fluid associated with birth. But also humans can't live long without water and so it would be observed early, that water was a critical need for a human being.  A little water can often revive and revitalise a very ill or even an unconscious person  who is dehydrated.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#3    Frank Merton

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:22 PM

Water played a minor part in Jewish Temple ritual (certain ablutions) but had no role in the introduction of someone into the community.  

Where, then, did baptism come from?  Did John the Baptist just start doing it and everybody around said this looks like a good thing to do?  It must have had some sort of history, but what?


#4    Mr Walker

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:21 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 27 March 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Water played a minor part in Jewish Temple ritual (certain ablutions) but had no role in the introduction of someone into the community.  

Where, then, did baptism come from?  Did John the Baptist just start doing it and everybody around said this looks like a good thing to do?  It must have had some sort of history, but what?
The concept of cleansing by water is multi cultural and developed indpendently eg in hinduism.  It probably connects to the multiple importances of water based on observation.  Immersion in water promotes healing and health, for example.  Humans have "always" washed a new born baby for obvious reasons and so water is also connected to birth. Hence if the concept of rebirth evolves it is likely to have a symbolic attachment to water.Because water is so benign and essential, it has always been one of the first things to be worshipped and embedded in beliefs and rituals, like the sun.

This site offers a simple comparative religious explanation for  the significance of water in a number of religions.

http://www.africanwa...rg/religion.htm

Edited by Mr Walker, 27 March 2013 - 10:24 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#5    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:27 PM

View PostAbba mudda, on 27 March 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Who is born of water and spirit ?
Regeneration , born again : of water and spirit: born of God. This is Jesus doctrine. Water, Serpent is a symbol of spirituality , power, wave, electromagnetic spectrum. Snakes understands almost all kind of vibrations from sonic to cosmic rays. We are all the children of serpents, wisdom and love.
  In Oromo and ancient Egyptian cosmology, Oromo or Atum created from or out of water. Oromo came from mada walaabu. Infinite ocean of water and spirit  no one knows " where it comes from and where it is going. "
Hi Abba mudda,

Something in you has to die for this "resurrection" to happen, to be "born again." Otherwise, one wouldn't understand the magnitude of being "born again." One wouldn't bother with it, to begin with, because one really has to feel it in one's heart that one is ready to accept a new MAJOR reality. "Dying" is not just one time. If you're full of yourself...go figure.

It's a transformation.


"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

"Jesus replied, 'Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.'" John 14:23

Basically, one is being made into a Christ-like person through the Holy Spirit's sanctification. It's the only way to stay in the "unconditional love" presence of Jesus, God. It has nothing to do with snakes, at least in the Christian context.

"You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it came, and where it goes: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit."  John 3:7-8

A "born again" Christian follows the will of the Holy Spirit (God, Christ), for he or she is a temple of God. When the Spirit enters one's being, it sometimes feels like a wind out of nowhere, or a refreshing running spring, so I've heard people say...


Peace to you, Abba.

Edited by braveone2u, 03 April 2013 - 01:32 PM.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
“Moses approached the dark cloud where God was.”

#6    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:32 PM

Well one of you tells me that water is important (not surprising) and the other quotes the Bible; I guess they don't know where the Christian rite came from.

I think it probably came from similar rites of other mystery religions of the time.  It certainly has no Jewish origin.  The Biblical passages sure sound that way -- just more evidence that early Christianity was really a Greek attempt to syncretize Jewish Messianism with Greek neo-Platonist cults, and not a branchoff of Judaism after all.


#7    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:38 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 27 March 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Water played a minor part in Jewish Temple ritual (certain ablutions) but had no role in the introduction of someone into the community.  

Where, then, did baptism come from?  Did John the Baptist just start doing it and everybody around said this looks like a good thing to do?  It must have had some sort of history, but what?
Hi Frank Merton,

I believe it's to emulate the sanctifying nature (or power) of the Holy Spirit.

Peace.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist )    https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008232820397

According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
“Moses approached the dark cloud where God was.”

#8    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:47 PM

I'm not sure you know the meaning of "emulate."  Perhaps "symbolize" would work better (but then I'm not a native English speaker).

What is "sanctify" and how can something have such a "nature."  Just what is the Holy Spirit anyway?  Is it God?  Why does He need a separate spirit, oh, and what makes one thing holy and something else not holy?  My I'm full of questions.

(Clue:  I'm trying to get you to forumulate your belief in real words, not cliches and slogans).


#9    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:53 PM

"Emulate" is imitate. There's nothing cliche about what I'm saying. Think of what I'm saying as planting a seed, if anything else. When I write, I'm not just writing to you.

Peace.

Edited by braveone2u, 03 April 2013 - 01:54 PM.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
“Moses approached the dark cloud where God was.”

#10    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:56 PM

Planting seeds of your faith I suppose.  You have no notion of how cliched that all is.  There is nothing wrong about preaching, but use reason and evidence, not worn out cliches and slogans you were taught from when you were a baby.  

Now, just  tell me how something holy differs from something that isn't.  Also, what is this power in baptismal water that makes it different from when I take a bath?


#11    desert palm tree

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:58 PM

Water symbolize Electromagnetic spectrum, Spirit, Spirituality. We , Jesus, Atum, are all fishes.


#12    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:00 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 03 April 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Planting seeds of your faith I suppose.  You have no notion of how cliched that all is.  There is nothing wrong about preaching, but use reason and evidence, not worn out cliches and slogans you were taught from when you were a baby.  

Now, just  tell me how something holy differs from something that isn't.  Also, what is this power in baptismal water that makes it different from when I take a bath?
Only God has the power to make a being holy. As I have mentioned, the baptismal water is emulating the cleansing power of the Holy Spirit.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist )    https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008232820397

According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
“Moses approached the dark cloud where God was.”

#13    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:04 PM

Whatever; I give up.


#14    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:14 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 03 April 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Whatever; I give up.
Frank,

I respect your belief system, believe me. Since this is a forum, I chose to answer certain questions and at the same time, share my thoughts to like minded people. The fact of the matter is, I'm not in heaven yet -- don't forget. What I share with you is my personal experiences with my renewed faith in Jesus Christ. There was a time when the Bible didn't make a bit sense to me -- to cut a long story short.

Peace to you always.

Edited by braveone2u, 03 April 2013 - 02:14 PM.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
“Moses approached the dark cloud where God was.”

#15    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 02:28 PM

I have no belief system; I think beliefs are evil things that get in the way of clear thought.  All we should have are opinions that we hold with varying degrees of assurance depending on the quality of the evidence.

I'm curious about Christianity and where it came from, and I am also curious about words that Christians bandy about, like "holy" that to me are empty -- just slogans that make them feel good.  Sorry to be so blunt, but the bit about "planting seeds" has been said before (I think by Jesus if memory serves) and is not a tired old worn out phrase -- a cliche.  Use of such expressions does not persuade, it only causes ridicule, although in my case since I'm not prone to ridicule it just causes me to look at the sky.





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