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Undeniable Evidence of Ancient Aliens


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#46    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:24 AM

View Postseeder, on 28 March 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:


Have Fun!  (I will check by in a couple of weeks just to read the frustrated enraged responses)..hehe


There is no need for there to be any enraged responses unless someone deliberately tries to de-rail the thread as happened previously.

In which case I will not hesitate to report offenders.

The premise of the thread is very clear.

I personally have no wish for this thread to de-generate into the kind of poor standards that were demonstrated on the other thread.  I don't wish to dredge that up here.

All I would ask is that people stay on topic and avoid conflict.

Here is the premise of the thread:

http://www.unexplain...6

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#47    Geldoblam

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:25 AM

What do you think of the video " Ancient Aliens debunked"?


#48    seeder

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:26 AM

View Postzoser, on 28 March 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

OK I've heard this kind of argument before.  What I would say about it is this:

First was the planning. logistics and calculations actually done?  Have we seen any?  What maths did they have at that time to construct something such as the Great Pyramid with?  How would it have been written?

According to archaeological evidence the Aymara Indians did not have writing yet they were supposed to have made the precision relics at Puma Punku?



There's a bunch of travelers near me, (or 'gypsies' for the international readers) ,  the kingpin, Charlie, is a highly skilled mechanic. You see him working on lorries, cars, bikes....anything mechanical with an engine, everyone takes their troubled engines to him, EVERYONE! the mans a genius with mechanics.  When I was first told of him, it was like this:

"Yeh Old Charlie is as thick as sh!t, cant read or write a word... but he can fix anything mechanical".   And so he can too! And yet to talk with him the guy appears a bit dense.

And there are millions more in the world like him. Maths and reading/writing mean little...

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#49    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:30 AM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 28 March 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Also there are mainstreamers who suggest that the ancients used a mixture of organic acids to literally liquefy the stones,that is why the edges fit so great.The theory suggests that the Ancients used to utilise the inherent mineral composition of these stones to make solvents that would melt the rocks wherever it was applied.

That was discussed on the other thread.  That doesn't mean that it cannot be revisited however.

Here was my argument against this idea:

This is actually getting ahead of ourselves but I don't mind if we look at it now since it is all related:

1) There was no candidate found.  Was it a flower?  Which one?

2) How would they have manufactured the chemical in such vast quantities?

3) Can any chemical really soften multi-tonne blocks?  Again please refer to post 2 for evidence.

If yes, then why have we not rediscovered it?  Think about it's potential value today.

There are lots and lots of pictures that I could post on this.  I was planning to post them later.  If wish to see them please ask.

Edited by zoser, 28 March 2013 - 11:31 AM.

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#50    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:32 AM

View Postseeder, on 28 March 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

a

and just to clarify for anyone who hasn't dipped their toes in to the ABOVE THREAD LINK,  which is a thread about the AA theory being UNTRUE, ie, NO aliens ever did anything. There is a difference and certainly no rock/wall pics   :tu:

That's just an unqualified statement .  By all means pursue the philosophy side of this discussion on the other thread.

I personally do not believe that will yield any insight into the question being considered here.

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#51    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:35 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 March 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

I have posted a ton of material about only that in the first thread I linked to in my former post.

But at least two persons have watched it themselves or heard about it: Hiram Bingham and Percy Fawcett.

I think I filled a dozen pages trying to find that foot-high plant with fleshy red leaves, growing along the Perené River in Peru, a plant that dissolved the spurs on the boots of someone walking through a field of these plants. A plant used by a native bird to dissolve rock to create its nest.

+++

EDIT:

I should add that the bird is a native of our planet....

.

See above post.  The points their-in were never adequately addressed.

This is a bit like replacing one science fiction theory for another.    Mystery chemicals with supernatural qualities?

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#52    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:39 AM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 28 March 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

How did technology arise in the ancient world is a question that can be answered according to our current observations regarding the same. By having advanced civilization and societies that encouraged new technologies.
Where did it go? is a more interesting question. There may have been a catastrophic world war that spiralled into a time when a lot of information was temporarily lost and found again now.The dark ages if you prefer.
How did it cross continents? is the simplest question of the three,pretty much the same way that it would today by ship or air plane.

You may find my answers ridiculous only if you believe:
1.Ancients were primitive and couldn't have done what we have done,we are much better off.
2.What we have achieved currently including our Wars couldn't have been achieved by the Ancients.
3.Ancients had not travelled around the globe, how could they it was Colombus/Amerigo Vespucci who discovered America,it was the conquistedors who first discovered South America lol.

As you can see i never resorted to Aliens or Extra-terrestrials even once in answering the questions.The issue arises only because of the arrogance of modern man who thinks that none before have achieved what we have.Also it will depend partially on how old you believe Homo Sapiens to be? If homo sapiens unlike what most evolutionists would tell you existed way back in the past say millions of years,then it would not be unreasonable to allow the ancients to have knowledge of advance technology.

Also in the Vedic tradition human civilization has undergone many previous cycles or Yugas. At the start of which righteousness and nobility of character and knowledge prevails which ultimately transitions to a phase where knowledge is lost and so is righteousness followed by complete destruction and then birth of a new humanity. This cycle continues.

Also the ancients have not even listed down the procedures they used, maybe be because it was common knowledge and not because Aliens built them. So much knowledge they had is lost because entire civilizations and their memory has been lost to us, these people could have known much that we do not yet know.

The more mysterious question to me is....how did these civilizations end,why did the people abandon these monuments?

But they are exactly that.  Unanswered questions.  I like your question on why they were abandoned.  It must be to do with cataclysmic planetary change in my opinion.

The question of cross continent diffusion of technology has to be a pivotal issue.

Both cultures, Peru and Egypt created precision megalithic architecture.  Similarities exist that cannot be explained by ordinary methods.

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#53    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:41 AM

View Postseeder, on 28 March 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

There's a bunch of travelers near me, (or 'gypsies' for the international readers) ,  the kingpin, Charlie, is a highly skilled mechanic. You see him working on lorries, cars, bikes....anything mechanical with an engine, everyone takes their troubled engines to him, EVERYONE! the mans a genius with mechanics.  When I was first told of him, it was like this:

"Yeh Old Charlie is as thick as sh!t, cant read or write a word... but he can fix anything mechanical".   And so he can too! And yet to talk with him the guy appears a bit dense.

And there are millions more in the world like him. Maths and reading/writing mean little...

Yet he presumably was trained by someone and could have read the Haynes Manuals.  The knowledge is in the world all over the world to fix cars.

Who taught the Aymara to build precision architecture?

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#54    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:47 AM

View PostGeldoblam, on 28 March 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

What do you think of the video " Ancient Aliens debunked"?

Lots of things really.  First I take the view that it's better to look at evidence for oneself and form deductive reasoned arguments rather than just what someone happens to say.

None of the arguments about precision build or hauling add up.  On one of the AA documentaries Stone Mason Roger Hopkins said it all when looking at relics of Puma Punku.

He said that modern technology would struggle to replicate that today using modern CNC machines.

The killer of the documentary really I think is that people have tried to replicate the precision.

See post 3:

http://www.unexplain...6

For the claims made in the documentary to be taken seriously the work of the ancients has to be replicated.

That's where the rubber hits the road.

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#55    mcrom901

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:47 AM

View Postzoser, on 28 March 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

Both cultures, Peru and Egypt created precision megalithic architecture.  Similarities exist that cannot be explained by ordinary methods.

which similarities?


#56    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:00 PM

View Postseeder, on 28 March 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

The Spanish arrived. It was only 500-ad. Just 1500 years ago so man wasn't primitive. In fact the Spanish even said they were still building it when they arrived. But thats all from me

There is strong evidence that this is false.

Take a look at this:

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Did De La Vega witness the megalithic construction or did he simply witness the rubble improvisation?

All over Peru we see inferior work built on top of precision megalithic.

Think why this might be so.

Here's what he said:

"....this fortress surpasses the constructions known as the seven wonders of the world. For in the case of a long broad wall like that of Babylon, or the colossus of Rhodes, or the pyramids of Egypt, or the other monuments, one can see clearly how they were executed...how, by summoning an immense body of workers and accumulating more and more material day by day and year by year, they overcame all difficulties by employing human effort over a long period. But it is indeed beyond the power of imagination to understand now these Indians, unacquainted with devices, engines, and implements, could have cut, dressed, raised, and lowered great rocks, more like lumps of hills than building stones, and set them so exactly in their places. For this reason, and because the Indians were so familiar with demons, the work is attributed to enchantment."

Very little there in terms of description to say how the megaliths were handled.  The first part seems like speculation, the second is awe and wonder.

Here he is again:


"The largest and most magnificent work which they ordered built to demonstrate their power and majesty was the fortress of Cuzco, the magnitude of which is incredible to those who have not seen it, and those who have seen and looked with attention it makes them imagine and even believe that it its greatness is made by way of enchantment and was made by devils and not men, because the multitude of so many stones of such great size, such as those placed in three terraces (which are more so than stones), cause admiration in imagining how they could be cut from the quarries from which they were taken...

"...many of them are so fitted that the joint hardly shows, and to think how they could fit stones so immense so well that you can scarcely insert the point of a knife between them..."


I really don't see any indication in this statement that he saw anything spectacular.


http://www.world-mys...s.com/mpl_9.htm


Apologies for the poor copy of this:


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I think this makes the point very well. Nothing spectacular was witnessed.


No Catholic church was ever built this way.  They almost certainly would have lasted longer.


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#57    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:01 PM

View Postmcrom901, on 28 March 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

which similarities?

Precision work in very hard stone both polygonal and cuboid.

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#58    mcrom901

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:05 PM

View Postzoser, on 28 March 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

Precision work in very hard stone both polygonal and cuboid.

pardon my ignorance but i didn't know the egyptians were stacking rocks like the peruvians... care to provide sources for your ^^ claim?


#59    mcrom901

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:10 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 28 March 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Also in the Vedic tradition human civilization has undergone many previous cycles or Yugas. At the start of which righteousness and nobility of character and knowledge prevails which ultimately transitions to a phase where knowledge is lost and so is righteousness followed by complete destruction and then birth of a new humanity. This cycle continues.

that's fact?


#60    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:36 PM

View Postzoser, on 28 March 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

That was discussed on the other thread.  That doesn't mean that it cannot be revisited however.

Here was my argument against this idea:

This is actually getting ahead of ourselves but I don't mind if we look at it now since it is all related:

1) There was no candidate found.  Was it a flower?  Which one?

2) How would they have manufactured the chemical in such vast quantities?

3) Can any chemical really soften multi-tonne blocks?  Again please refer to post 2 for evidence.

If yes, then why have we not rediscovered it?  Think about it's potential value today.

There are lots and lots of pictures that I could post on this.  I was planning to post them later.  If wish to see them please ask.
You are right that we have not narrowed down on what solvent they used to use and how they made it,or what was the source.Even if you find the solvent there is still the question of how they mined the rocks and how they lifted them to those heights and put them in place. But this conundrum by itself doesn't strengthen the case for ancient aliens.
2)They can extract a solvent in required quantities if it has a biological origin or has components that are naturally available. The quantities involved are not so great as an effective solvent can dissolve vast amount of solute even in small quantities.
3)Yes solvents depending on which minerals they act on can dissolve even a mountain of rock. We are currently aware of numerous solvents that can dissolve a wide array or solutes including rocks. These solvents wouldn't be financial treasures in the current world as we already have them,and they are manufactured for cheap.

Yes please post more pictures, i would love to see them. Though i don't see the case for ancient aliens strengthening. Though i do not deny that aliens could have come to Earth in the past and we are still looking for proof.
Ancient or modern Aliens is probably one of the few Fringe theories that have been taken seriously even by the mainstream hence we have SETI etc.

View Postmcrom901, on 28 March 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

that's fact?
Maybe, don't know. Need more information.





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