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Wealth Distribution.


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#61    Br Cornelius

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:30 PM

So if you have rich parents you can move up the social ladder - thats a very very strange definition of social mobility, and not what the article indicated.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#62    Br Cornelius

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:32 PM

View PostGiant Killer B, on 04 April 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

No we established the UK and US as having the highest social mobility.

When we breakdown that we find one part of our demographic makeup has very low social mobility. The part that lack skilled parents to which I indicated negative parents have a habit of passing on negative mindsets to their children.

You live in a state where anything is possible. If you put the hard work in you could gain an olympic medal, get a docturate, be a wealthy director or even get yourself elected as an MP. The state is not closed door to people of low social standing.

My advice is to zip-it, pick something you're interested in and go out and raise yourself. You'll end up getting somewhere.

I advice you to keep your opinion and advice in your head where it belongs. You are repeating the assumption (wrongly) that I am not exactly where I want to be.

Do not confuse dissatisfaction with a dysfunctional social order with personal dissatisfaction with what I have achieved in life.

You simply are revealing your own shelfish motives rather than anything about me.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 04 April 2013 - 07:34 PM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#63    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:38 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 04 April 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

So if you have rich parents you can move up the social ladder - thats a very very strange definition of social mobility, and not what the article indicated.

Br Cornelius

Dont distort things.

If you have the right mentality then you can move up the social ladder regardless of how much money you have. I suspect you gain something else from maintaining your perceptions. Maybe you like being a victim? Maybe it prevents you having to admit your own responsibility towards your own success?

Edited by Giant Killer B, 04 April 2013 - 07:39 PM.


#64    Br Cornelius

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:43 PM

View PostGiant Killer B, on 04 April 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

Dont distort things.

If you have the right mentality then you can move up the social ladder regardless of how much money you have. I suspect you gain something else from maintaining your perceptions. Maybe you like being a victim? Maybe it prevents you having to admit your own responsibility towards your own success?
Psychobabbling me :clap:
You have me entirely wrong - i do not share your desire to move on up - I am up and always have been.
I own everything I need and have no debt to my name - I achieved this through my own hard work.

If you project onto others your own passions - you get things wrong - always.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson

#65    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:45 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 04 April 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

Psychobabbling me :clap:
You have me entirely wrong - i do not share your desire to move on up - I am up and always have been.
I own everything I need and have no debt to my name - I achieved this through my own hard work.

If you project onto others your own passions - you get things wrong - always.

Br Cornelius

Somehow I dont believe you lol.


#66    Br Cornelius

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:47 PM

View PostGiant Killer B, on 04 April 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

Somehow I dont believe you lol.
believe what you like. Belief is free and doesn't have to be based on anything, so feel free to indulge yourself - its all projection from your dissatisfied mind as far as I am concerned.

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#67    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:53 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 04 April 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

believe what you like. Belief is free and doesn't have to be based on anything, so feel free to indulge yourself - its all projection from your dissatisfied mind as far as I am concerned.

Br Cornelius

Your ability to deflect is impressive.

Oh well, theres always the chance you might win the Euromillions tomorrow night lol.


#68    Br Cornelius

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:59 PM

View PostGiant Killer B, on 04 April 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

Your ability to deflect is impressive.

Oh well, theres always the chance you might win the Euromillions tomorrow night lol.
Delusional.
Do you own you own house and lands outright, do you have a healthy happy family, have you paid off your education bills, do you have reliable transport. I live in one of the most unspoilt corners of Europe with clean air and water. I am here because its exactly where I want to be doing exactly what I want to be doing.
As I said - do not assume I want for anything and that I haven't achieved what I have through my own efforts.

What do you want that you don't already have ?

It is wrong to assume that others share your passions and needs and wants, and it basically sums up what is wrong with your philosophy about the economy and America in particular. You bought the dream - lock stock and barrel - you are welcome to it and I hope it makes you happy.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 04 April 2013 - 08:03 PM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#69    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:11 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 04 April 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Delusional.
Do you own you own house and lands outright, do you have a healthy happy family, have you paid off your education bills, do you have reliable transport. I live in one of the most unspoilt corners of Europe with clean air and water. I am here because its exactly where I want to be doing exactly what I want to be doing.
As I said - do not assume I want for anything and that I haven't achieved what I have through my own efforts.

What do you want that you don't already have ?

Br Cornelius

I'm not materialistic. It really wont bother me if I lost everything or if I won the Euromillions.

I'm one of those who search for a higher meaning in life.


#70    Br Cornelius

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:14 PM

View PostGiant Killer B, on 04 April 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

I'm not materialistic. It really wont bother me if I lost everything or if I won the Euromillions.

I'm one of those who search for a higher meaning in life.
And now I don't believe you lol.

Br Cornelius

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#71    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:17 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 04 April 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

And now I don't believe you lol.

Br Cornelius

Why?

I've no poor issues as I've never been poor.


#72    Sundew

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:47 PM

Having run a business I find this whole discussion interesting. You put up your capital with no guarantee of a profit, you work 6 sometimes 7 days a week for 8, 10, or 12 hours. You get phones calls in the middle of the night which employees don't show or the electric or plumbing goes haywire. The dishonest among your employees find every conceivable way to steal one can think of, they steal food, or liquor or tools or time, they hide in closets and sleep, they come in reeking of alcohol or marijuana. In the days when you could have perspective employees checked out, you might find one has a rap sheet a yard long, or was recently arrested for prostitution. Then if you're luck at the end of the year you show a bit of profit. One year was so bad the business made under $100.00, after salaries.

Then you pay, city, county, state and federal taxes, you have various mandates from on high that you must spend capital upon; limited captial. Sadly I can't print my own money. And your tax dollars go to things like: treadmills for shrimp, studies on the sex lives of snails, one of then newer ones: studying why lesbians women are overweight (no lie) to the tune of $778 THOUSAND dollars, and so forth and so on. And still government spends more, and more and yet more.  I saw today that the city of Winona (Minnesota I believe) is going to start taxing....rainwater that falls on your property to pay for their storm water system. Can taxing the air and sex be far behind?

So after all the headaches we dropped out of business and sold it. It has been a struggle for the buyers since the wonderful years of Obama have come upon us. Frankly I'm not sure how they are surviving.  I could go on about the housing bubble fostered upon our banking system by Frank and Dodd forcing them to give loans to the unqualified (it's all out of fairness you see) and how that hits your pocketbook, your savings, your retirement (if you have any of these left). How governments continued unabashed spending is driving up the cost of gasoline, food, construction materials, etc, the beginnings of inflation. How as Neil Boortz (summing up Ayn Rand's novel Atlas Shrugged) once put it, we now have three classes of people in our country. The Producers, those who make things or provide services and provide the engine of capital and the brainpower and entrepreneurial spirit that drives our economy. The Looters, those in governmental authority who increasingly go the the Producers as if they are the never ending goose laying golden eggs, who may earning a living increasing difficult while added constantly to the tax and regulatory burden and who ingratiate themselves to the third class of people, the Moochers, who live off the government teat and disparage the very Producer who willing or not, support them. It reminds me of Proverbs 30:15: "The leech has two daughters. 'Give! Give!' they cry."

But rather than be depressed I would like to go out on a musical note. Hit it, John, Paul, George and Ringo.....

Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.

Don't ask me what I want it for
If you don't want to pay some more
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
And you're working for no one but me.


#73    Sundew

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:50 PM

BTW, if you haven't read Altas Shrugged by Ayn Rand you might want to. Wealth distribution run amok.


#74    Br Cornelius

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:02 PM

View PostSundew, on 04 April 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

BTW, if you haven't read Altas Shrugged by Ayn Rand you might want to. Wealth distribution run amok.
The Neo_liberal Bible, think I'll give it a miss.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson

#75    F3SS

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:47 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 04 April 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

If America fails to solve its wealth inequality crisis I guarantee that you will be plunged into civiil unrest the like of which you have never seen before.

Br Cornelius
That's so OWS and nothing happened. It fizzled out like a cheap sparkler.
More than one socialist here, possibly you, has told me in the past that we should look to Sweden or maybe it was Switzerland as an example of the greatness that is socialism. The selling point was the amount of billionaires and millionaires who live there in an effort to condemn my point that socialism will run a countries people broke. So I'll ask you, why are the rich in those countries something to admire and the ones here are something to loathe? Why is their wealth accumulation on the moral high ground?

View PostBr Cornelius, on 04 April 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

I wouldn't stand up for any one of them, but this is classic blaming the victim for his circumstances. Its a right wing play which allows them to take no responsibility for the state of the nation and their part in how it got that way. Do you not think that when the jobs were there, every one of them was just an average Jo working to put bread on the table. The jobs flew away because it was cheaper to get the work done in China. Result , an underclass and a permanently broken society. I blame the people who took the work away.


Br Cornelius
The jobs flew away when people who think like you got into government and made the cost of doing business and production too expensive to be competitive.
Damn right I take no responsibility for how these so called victims ended up where they are. I don't know them and I don't owe them.
I've hired these victims before. Funny who you'll find when you run help wanted ads in areas close to the city.
Victim #1: Fell asleep the first day on the job. I kept him for about two or three weeks. If somebody wasn't right next to him all day he'd forget what he was doing and whatever, he needed a babysitter. He wasn't making me any money and I didn't owe him any favors so adios. Dumbass had FIVE kids and wasn't shy about getting 'dat check from the government. Working for me or not I am paying for his family either way and likely still am.
Victim #2: Called me about the ad which clearly said 'must have valid license and vehicle'. I confirmed with him over the phone that he had those things. He shows up in a busted up car with a half assed installed side mirror. I asked him what the deal was and he said it's his girlfriends car that he wrecked after they got in a fight and the stupid mirror came from another car from which he stole the mirror in an effort to disguise his screw up from her. Needless to say I was less than impressed. I asked him for his license so I could copy it for employee paperwork. He tells me then that he don't have one. It's suspended. Well he was there and I had work scheduled so I decided what the hell. Maybe he can work. 1st day went ok. Second day he showed up. Went ok. That night he called off with some bullsht story about his grandma and said he would call in the morning with an update. I already knew I was done with him. Completely screwed my plans and calls off on the third day. He didn't call until the next evening. I said it isn't going to work and met up with him to pay him and gave him almost twice as much in cash as I should've. But it was good riddance don't bother me again money. He acted disappointed and said he thought he showed me a lot, as in effort and work ethic. I shook my head and left.

There have been others but you know what man? These people have made their own bed. Maybe it's their parents fault but it isn't societies and it certainly isn't mine. I tried to help but they weren't worth my time or even minimum wage though I paid them more.

View PostBr Cornelius, on 04 April 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

My position on Neo-Liberalism is based on evidence.
My position on the underclass is just plain old vanilla common sense. Also I had the privilage of living through Margaret Thatchers revolution and not getting suckered into morgaging my life away.

You don't have to sympathize with a criminal to understand why he might have chosen his path in life, and that it probably wasn't want he wanted out of life.

Br Cornelius
Common sense can be very subjective. Charles Manson thought the coming race war which would lead to a black victory and black president which would lead to such disaster that the nation would beg for a white man to lead again who happened to be Charles Manson was plain old vanilla common sense too.
People are only victims if they want to be, in the context of this conversation that is. There is nothing and no one stopping them from doing something different and better or even great. I have a close friend who I grew up with who is beginning to think like you more and more. While he does take responsibility for his circumstances he has no problem thinking of ways that 'the system' has held him or is holding him back. He bought into the OWS farce and converted to an Obama supporter. He despises the rich. To make a long story short he comes up with all this nonsense yet plays call of duty for hours at a time after work. Nothing wrong with that but if that's what you're going to do don't cry the blues when you're not showered with good fortune. He works hard and is a good dad but its not the system that's holding him back from whatever it is he feels he should or should have achieved by now.

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