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"Forced" Religion.


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#1    and then

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:19 AM

A recent thread caused me to wonder about this commonly perceived idea.  I often hear how Christians force their religion on others.  Examples, anyone?  And this one can be kept civil please.  I legitimately want examples of how Christians (or Jews or Muslims) have forced their religion on you - and what that coercion consists of.

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#2    Ever Learning

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:02 AM

Being christian from my point of view ive never met a christian who forced their religion on me before i was a christian, and the ones i did encounter were quite patient with my atheist rudeness even though they were unsuccesful. i think alot of the bad stigma christians get are from america and the catholic church, although being protestant i think all of the christian reformations happened in europe so i think america concentrates on the hell and brimstone rather than the love preached in the gospel.
im sure there are good christians in america but the amount of christians who are actually christians is like 5percent every where including america, even the prodestants here arnt protestant and if i asked them about the reformation or how they differ from non christians they wouldnt know what to say. so many protestants hate the catholics but they wouldnt know why, just that they are meant too. wheres the love christians? and what separates you from non christians?
a belief in god is okay but even the devil believes in god lol
im not the best christian but i do try to be and thats what counts, saved through faith in god but my works show that a change is hopefully happening in my self.
i dont go to church as i dislike alot of christians more than atheists or i feel as if i dont feel spiritual in church as its full of atheists who inherited christianity but dont know or want to talk about it, gods in all of creation so its not as if im away from god until i step into a church any way.

even though it may seem as if i preach on here, i have no thoughts that id ever convert any one through the internet but do see it as a good opertunity to debate bible knowledge, i hope that every one could be an atheist turn christian or a christian atheist turned christian but i doubt im the christian to do this but it sure does make me happy trying.
im dogmatic and wont change my views but i hope im polite and dont seem to unaproachable. much love to atheists, people of different religious creeds (even though i cant be liberal and say all religions are right) and christian atheists who keep the seats warm in church.

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#3    Gary Meadows

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:17 AM

I think "force" was too strong of a word. For that I apologize. I think we just see things differently from our own perspective. I see most Christians as way too pushy with their own beliefs, but that is just me from my position.


Sorry again for offending. (I seem to be good at that) :P

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#4    redsquare

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:34 AM

I can honestly say that during the twenty years I have been on this planet I have never had a religion forced on me even when I was at school. Where I'm from religion isn't that big a deal. Its more where your from that matters rather than what religion you follow.


#5    and then

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:48 AM

When I was a kid growing up in the Bible belt I was exposed to "religion" early on.  Children can instinctively see through hypocrisy I think and I saw a lot of it.  It soured me on church by the time I was 12 but it did not rattle my faith in Christ.  THAT relationship felt and still FEELS REAL.  I don't know how to explain it better than this.  I never would strap on a bomb and kill others because of my faith but I WOULD die a martyr before betraying my Friend who did so much for me.  My point is that I kind of understand the sentiment of folks that get sick of hearing others preach one message then act opposite to it.  Too much of that in the church (no matter what flavor) but it's depressing to see people react reflexively against a message that really is (imo)  the only hope for humanity because of the stupidity and callousness of some of us messengers :(  
Christ gave His followers a commission to go out into the world and make disciples - to spread the good news that a different way was available that led to life and not death.  But we humans have a way of making a simple thing hopelessly complicated and often enough, corrupt.  I think when the day of judgement arrives there will be many of my faith who will be shown they did more harm than good in their attempts to "spread the gospel".

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#6    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 12:30 PM

I have written comments about this, and I stand by all I have written. Though I will qualify this to say that I have written about the original forcing of Christianity upon pagans. Generally we are whatever religion or political view our parents have. I do not see this as being forced into anything, it is simply a natural form of indoctrination and applies to all religions. To me, the problem is that Christianty has a history of forcing itself on others at the point of a sword, and this cannot be denied. Three examples in Europe. The massacre of tens of thousands of "old" Saxons and the destruction of the sacred groves and places. The threat to Icelanders in the year 1000, that if they did not convert to Christianity, then their relatives still living in Norway would be put to death by the sword. And finally, the Baltic Crusades by the Teutonic Knights and Swedes against "heathens" to show them the "path of light and righteousness", yeah, right. Pagans did not go on crusades to impose their religion on anybody, Christians did, and it is clear to me that some would again. Jehovah is a jealous "god", and his followers have proved themselves down the ages to be somewhat intolerant. For myself, I do not care what anybody believes, but I do care if Christians accuse me of satanism simply because I do not conform to their religion. This has affected me in real life outside of this forum, so when I see Christians today moaning about being persecuted or hearing bad things said about them, well, I find it difficult to give any polite response.


#7    Ever Learning

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 12:38 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 04 April 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

I have written comments about this, and I stand by all I have written. Though I will qualify this to say that I have written about the original forcing of Christianity upon pagans. Generally we are whatever religion or political view our parents have. I do not see this as being forced into anything, it is simply a natural form of indoctrination and applies to all religions. To me, the problem is that Christianty has a history of forcing itself on others at the point of a sword, and this cannot be denied. Three examples in Europe. The massacre of tens of thousands of "old" Saxons and the destruction of the sacred groves and places. The threat to Icelanders in the year 1000, that if they did not convert to Christianity, then their relatives still living in Norway would be put to death by the sword. And finally, the Baltic Crusades by the Teutonic Knights and Swedes against "heathens" to show them the "path of light and righteousness", yeah, right. Pagans did not go on crusades to impose their religion on anybody, Christians did, and it is clear to me that some would again. Jehovah is a jealous "god", and his followers have proved themselves down the ages to be somewhat intolerant. For myself, I do not care what anybody believes, but I do care if Christians accuse me of satanism simply because I do not conform to their religion. This has affected me in real life outside of this forum, so when I see Christians today moaning about being persecuted or hearing bad things said about them, well, I find it difficult to give any polite response.
christianity guide book i.e th bible is against killing and the first crusade we were asked to come save the byzantine empire from turkish invasion, its extremely ignorant for people to say christians did this, when atheists pretend to be christian and then put the blame on us, any one who has read the bible knows its wrong for a christian to kill. the jews may have killed but they were living in an eye for an eye world. please state the crusades you mean and the leaders of those crusades, when people say crusades they think that is enough justification when they dont know the history or key players. one of the crusades was in russia another was started by an invite by batu kahn. (relative of ghengis khan)
the crusaders of the fourth crusade were excommunicated for invading holy land for personal gain rather than religion.

The Albigensian Crusade was started to better secure southern france and was heretical in its self

i could go on etc
started a rant and i apoligise, id get annoyed for people stating history wrong even if if didnt involve christianity.

i could say the buddists had a holy war, which it would appear they did but it goes against their core teachings so i dont know how when living a live of poverty christians or buddists could start awar unless unbelivers were doing it in their name. wars cost money and only princes and leaders have the money to commit to one. the christians of the middle ages didnt speak latin and so were told what to do with out know right or wrong. the protestant reformation changed this as well as so many others things, so religion was in the hands of the people again and not the catholic church that had become its own monachy with so much deception and unvirtue.

Edited by Armchair Educated, 04 April 2013 - 01:00 PM.

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#8    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 12:55 PM

View PostArmchair Educated, on 04 April 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

christianity guide book i.e th bible is against killing and the first crusade we were asked to come save the byzantine empire from turkish invasion, its extremely ignorant for people to say christians did this, when atheists pretend to be christian and then put the blame on us, any one who has read the bible knows its wrong for a christian to kill. the jews may have killed but they were living in an eye for an eye world. please state the crusades you mean and the leaders of those crusades, when people say crusades they think that is enough justification when they dont know the history or key players. one of the crusades was in russia another was started by an invite by batu kahn. (relative of ghengis khan)
You are factually wrong. The first crusade was, as with all those crusades, to liberate the "Holy Land" from Muslim control. At the time of the first crusade the Ottoman Turks had not yet even arrived in Anatolia, let alone at the gates of Constantinople, that was in several hundreds of years time. Constantinople was sacked because the crusaders were latins and the "New" Romans were by then Orthodox, and the Latins wanted money. There no crusade in Russia, Alexander Nevsky stopped the Teutonic Knights in their tracks at Lake Piepus, and besides, Russia was Christian by that time. The crusades were by Western Christian armies against either Muslims in the levant or pagans in the Baltic lands. All the crusades were to bring Christianity at the point of a sword. To deny this is to deny the facts of history. It does not matter what any bible says about not killing, though please explain the part about witches, adulterers etc etc. What matters is what men do, and Christian men in the past have spread their religion at the point of a sword. Nobody was forced to worship Ra at the point of a sword, but at the end times worshippers of Ra had to submit to Christianity or face death. I know my history, and I know evasive nonsense and twisted convolutions when I see them.


#9    Ever Learning

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:59 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 04 April 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

You are factually wrong. The first crusade was, as with all those crusades, to liberate the "Holy Land" from Muslim control. At the time of the first crusade the Ottoman Turks had not yet even arrived in Anatolia, let alone at the gates of Constantinople, that was in several hundreds of years time. Constantinople was sacked because the crusaders were latins and the "New" Romans were by then Orthodox, and the Latins wanted money. There no crusade in Russia, Alexander Nevsky stopped the Teutonic Knights in their tracks at Lake Piepus, and besides, Russia was Christian by that time. The crusades were by Western Christian armies against either Muslims in the levant or pagans in the Baltic lands. All the crusades were to bring Christianity at the point of a sword. To deny this is to deny the facts of history. It does not matter what any bible says about not killing, though please explain the part about witches, adulterers etc etc. What matters is what men do, and Christian men in the past have spread their religion at the point of a sword. Nobody was forced to worship Ra at the point of a sword, but at the end times worshippers of Ra had to submit to Christianity or face death. I know my history, and I know evasive nonsense and twisted convolutions when I see them.
before the crusades alexis komonenos usurped the throne being a general of the previous byzantine empire and turning his army back onto constinople. there were previous wars to this with the muslims, and the ottoman turks arnt the only turks, the turks being far from unified. the turks raided small towns and forts all the time.
alexios didnt want to put any of his power into his generals hands as they might usurp his throne like he did to his predesesor. instead he payed muslims and turks to fight for him, while at the same time replacing the aristocracy with his own family, who he could trust.
he even gave key power provinces to his mercenary leaders but when these leaders died he couldnt trust there sons to be faithful and they started raiding and attacking the rest of the byzantine empire (fact) the turks seeing this as an oppertunity attacked at the same time, kaka from the east attacking sea ports and raping monks and killing children (fact)
serbs attacking from north as well as normans attack from south, byzantine didnt have a leg to stand on.
alexios lost the byzantine empire through his stupidity and when he had no where to turn, he turned to the western church's (catholic church), there were two catholic churches at the time and both were fighting for authenticity. when pope urban recieved news from alexios about the state of the holy land he saw it as a chance to be recognized as supreme pope by uniting eastern and western churches.
he rallied princes in france and other princes followed suit and promised that any one who fought would be rewarded by god, completely theologicaly wrong and alot of christians dissagreed with him but he wanted to be pope and that was how he would acomplish that.
so skipping the recruitment process, of the massive army not led by one person, not by the pope, not by a single prince it was complete anarchy a large number of people didnt make it there.

alexios was pooping himself cus altho happy to have this army he didnt know how to feed it and  gave the christians gold and got merchants for the sole purpose of feeding crusaders, the gold of course went straight into his own pockets. as he owned the merchants


once their, alexios made all the princes swear an oath and become his sons, bringing fake christian relics to the procession to authenticate the ceromony an insure he had control of them. the emperor swore he would fight with the crusaders, which he didnt, he double dealed with the muslims and crusaders when he saw fit, and no one entered the holy land until he got this large army to march the longest possible route to the holy land securing his own provinces in the process.
there were many sieges that kept the crusaders in poverty and the muslims not one group of people but many attacked without mercy. the war wasnt fought in constanople but the rest of the byzantine empire. so i wasnt talking about something that happened 700 years later, you were.
and it does matter what it says in the bible, what a ridiculas thing to say. its obvious that anything jesus says over rules anything else in the bible and christians are meant to imitate him. CHRISTianity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzachas this proves that the turks also entered antolia and you have no idea what your pretending to talk about. forshame
i could go on refuting your claims but your claims are lies in sentences and the truth has paragraphs of info to prove your wrong

Edited by Armchair Educated, 04 April 2013 - 02:41 PM.

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#10    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:06 PM

@ Armchair. Yet what has all your post to do with the OP. Both Christians and Muslims carried out crusades. Christians fought each other, Muslims fought each other. I am neither, and what they do is their concern unless they attack me. My post was short, clear and accurate, you have presented a ramble that misrepresents my post. I don't give a damn about Alexis this or Seljuk Turks that, or about their squabbles. I take no side in this except to point out that Christians, yes, and Muslims, have a liking for killing people who are not the same as them. Too often on this forum people like to suck matters down into a bog by demanding such 100% correctness in anybody they disagree with. To confuse matters by going off the point. There are people on another thread who cannot even see how ridiculous they are in arguing about existence of god by quoting numbers at each other and wrapping themselves up in strings. They cannot see wood for trees. I will not engage with such nonsense there or here. I travel in straight lines and will not be diverted by what I know is nonsense. There is no debate with that which is irrational. The OP is "Forced Religion" and that is what I has addressed having been a victim of this Christ nonsense.


#11    Ever Learning

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:20 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 04 April 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

@ Armchair. Yet what has all your post to do with the OP. Both Christians and Muslims carried out crusades. Christians fought each other, Muslims fought each other. I am neither, and what they do is their concern unless they attack me. My post was short, clear and accurate, you have presented a ramble that misrepresents my post. I don't give a damn about Alexis this or Seljuk Turks that, or about their squabbles. I take no side in this except to point out that Christians, yes, and Muslims, have a liking for killing people who are not the same as them. Too often on this forum people like to suck matters down into a bog by demanding such 100% correctness in anybody they disagree with. To confuse matters by going off the point. There are people on another thread who cannot even see how ridiculous they are in arguing about existence of god by quoting numbers at each other and wrapping themselves up in strings. They cannot see wood for trees. I will not engage with such nonsense there or here. I travel in straight lines and will not be diverted by what I know is nonsense. There is no debate with that which is irrational. The OP is "Forced Religion" and that is what I has addressed having been a victim of this Christ nonsense.
you quoted the crusades my original post was op relavant, to not give a damn about alexis when talking about the first crusade is redonk. you make it seem as if the egyptians hand were clean of blood, which is ridiculas. no one can carve an empire with out shedding blood and the pharohs thought they were descended from the gods. there fore religion represents Egyptians as the leaders made the decisions.
i dont think this but in the way you paint christians, i can paint new age horus worshippers. once again i dnt think this, it is terrible logic

Edited by Armchair Educated, 04 April 2013 - 03:28 PM.

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#12    Michelle

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:31 PM

View Postand then, on 04 April 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

A recent thread caused me to wonder about this commonly perceived idea.  I often hear how Christians force their religion on others.  Examples, anyone?  And this one can be kept civil please.  I legitimately want examples of how Christians (or Jews or Muslims) have forced their religion on you - and what that coercion consists of.

Excuse me, but isn't this thread supposed to be about personal experiences?


#13    desert palm tree

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:32 PM

Every religion has had  political power. When Judaism started by Egyptian and changed its form slightly by Persians and Greece those governments had a role to make a blueprint for this religion. Likewise Christianity changed more the content of Judaism and also changed its name to Christian by its  political influence , by blood. Roman Empire had the worst moral compared to Egyptian and Persian, burnt huge human heritage in Alexanderia library. .


#14    SpiritWriter

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:36 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 04 April 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

I have written comments about this, and I stand by all I have written. Though I will qualify this to say that I have written about the original forcing of Christianity upon pagans. Generally we are whatever religion or political view our parents have. I do not see this as being forced into anything, it is simply a natural form of indoctrination and applies to all religions. To me, the problem is that Christianty has a history of forcing itself on others at the point of a sword, and this cannot be denied. Three examples in Europe. The massacre of tens of thousands of "old" Saxons and the destruction of the sacred groves and places. The threat to Icelanders in the year 1000, that if they did not convert to Christianity, then their relatives still living in Norway would be put to death by the sword. And finally, the Baltic Crusades by the Teutonic Knights and Swedes against "heathens" to show them the "path of light and righteousness", yeah, right. Pagans did not go on crusades to impose their religion on anybody, Christians did, and it is clear to me that some would again. Jehovah is a jealous "god", and his followers have proved themselves down the ages to be somewhat intolerant. For myself, I do not care what anybody believes, but I do care if Christians accuse me of satanism simply because I do not conform to their religion. This has affected me in real life outside of this forum, so when I see Christians today moaning about being persecuted or hearing bad things said about them, well, I find it difficult to give any polite response.

I agree with you except for recipricating intolerance, this may not be direct but being "percecuted" yourself you should know how it feels. Ridicule/harrasment etc. shouldnt be tolerated at all in my opinion within a heart in persuit of the higher power whatever name or face it may have. I feel our words and expressions should be about education, envoking the spirit, unity and understanding and that tearing down is quite the opposite of building up. Christians are being persecuted, ridiculed etc. and it is my opininion that we are in a shift of conciousness throughout the land that will be increasing this. Every large organization is going to have a haunted past and it is true that many Christians have a ways to go in acceptance especially in understanding paganism. There is a clash between the two and pagans are not always an innocent party in the interaction. If all can see religious intolerance should be transformed into understanding we will be on a much better page when dealing with these confrontations.


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Thanks to the OP great topic. I have more to say about it but I will come back later.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#15    SpiritWriter

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:44 PM

View PostMichelle, on 04 April 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:



Excuse me, but isn't this thread supposed to be about personal experiences?

Should we avoid historical facts that are associated with "forced religion"? This is a factor that we should not be blind to.

Edit: but I do recognize this is addressing users who feel Christians are forcing their religion on them now, which I am very eager to hear about myself.


Christ himself had issues with the leaders and politics of the jews, it very easy when observing spiritually to see the difference between a controlling goverment and a true seeker of God. Religion is to be practiced by the believer and part of this practice is not to allow anyone take their God away from them. In Christianity we ascribe to The One God who is available to all.  Things seem to get of track and we find ourselves arguing about Who is God. Religious seekers who are against Christianity do not know the heart of its essence but accuse the religious (worldly and unspiritual) powers, which they have every right to do because some attention needs to be drawn to these factors but the truth is that the religion is about bringing believers into the fullness of God. This isnt forced on anyone but a gift from the devine.

Edited by SpiritWriter, 04 April 2013 - 04:00 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung




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