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"Forced" Religion.


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#16    Michelle

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:48 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 04 April 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Should we avoid historical facts that are associated with "forced religion"? This is a factor that we should not be blind to.

It derails a thread that the OP started to find out people's personal experiences.


#17    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 03:55 PM

View Postand then, on 04 April 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

A recent thread caused me to wonder about this commonly perceived idea.  I often hear how Christians force their religion on others.  Examples, anyone?  And this one can be kept civil please.  I legitimately want examples of how Christians (or Jews or Muslims) have forced their religion on you - and what that coercion consists of.

It starts at the family level, have you ever had to say hail marys' as a form of punishment?  How about all day interrogation lectures about how you have sinned.  I've experienced both.

Edited by HavocWing, 04 April 2013 - 04:20 PM.

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason that “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous execution, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God."
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#18    SpiritWriter

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:04 PM

View PostMichelle, on 04 April 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:



It derails a thread that the OP started to find out people's personal experiences.

However the topic is clearly named "Forced Religion" this is a major historical factor that needs to be considered. We are the offspring of those who had this religion introduced to them forcefully or otherwise, things that happen generationally are personal.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#19    Ever Learning

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:06 PM

View PostHavocWing, on 04 April 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

It starts at the family level, have you ever had say hail marys' as a form of punishment?  How about all day lectures about god and how you have sinned.  I've experienced both.
sounds horrible and very boring. im choosing not to raise my kids as christians or allow them to go to church until they are old enough. cant make a child understand these things cus they either grow up and become an atheist or a christian who goes through rebellion but can make really good excuses by twisting bible verses lol

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#20    Michelle

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:10 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 04 April 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

However the topic is clearly named "Forced Religion" this is a major historical factor that needs to be considered. We are the offspring of those who had this religion introduced to them forcefully or otherwise, things that happen generationally are personal.

Have it your way. I was hoping to finally get some answers as to how and why people today feel they are being imposed on by religion...which is what the OP specifically requested. There are many, many threads about the history of religion, which he obviously was not looking for.


#21    OverSword

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:13 PM

I've never personally had anyone force religion on me.  When I was a kid we went to church every Sunday.  Sometime during my 12th year my parents gave me the choice to attend or not so I stopped going.  It never made me feel less close to God or His Son and I pray every day.  Some days my inner conversation is almost a non-stop prayer.


#22    SpiritWriter

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:20 PM

View PostMichelle, on 04 April 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:



Have it your way. I was hoping to finally get some answers as to how and why people today feel they are being imposed on by religion...which is what the OP specifically requested. There are many, many threads about the history of religion, which he obviously was not looking for.

I do hope to hear those perspectives as well... and understand the intent, but I do see how history affects current perceptions, this adds to the overall "feeling" that the religion is forced. We cannot deny that. This can be similar to America was founded on Slavery and we were having a discussion on how African Americans are still being oppressed but they shouldnt bring up slavery. It does account for much. All deep concepts are rooted in something, understanding that helps us understand the whole and the present condition.

Edited by SpiritWriter, 04 April 2013 - 04:21 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#23    IamsSon

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:21 PM

View PostMichelle, on 04 April 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

Have it your way. I was hoping to finally get some answers as to how and why people today feel they are being imposed on by religion...which is what the OP specifically requested. There are many, many threads about the history of religion, which he obviously was not looking for.
What's wrong with you Michelle!?  How could you possibly expect a serious dicussion about religion when this presents such a wonderful opportunity to denigrate Christianity?

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#24    SpiritWriter

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:28 PM

View PostIamsSon, on 04 April 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

What's wrong with you Michelle!?  How could you possibly expect a serious dicussion about religion when this presents such a wonderful opportunity to denigrate Christianity?

I will respond to this because this is in response to me and Michelle's interaction, I think your being sarcastic but I'm not sure... I am not trying to denigrate Christianity at all, I just dont want us to be blind to certain facts. The truth will set us free. :)

Blessings :)

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#25    OverSword

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:42 PM

I think the only instances of forced religion I can think of would be if society had laws based on religion or religious beliefs.  I'm not saying murder wouldn't be ilegal were it not for "Thou shalt not kill"  Im thinking more like a woman can be caned in Iran if she leaves her house without covering her hair.  That would be a good example of religion or a religious beliefe being forced on people.


#26    Michelle

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:49 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 04 April 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

I do hope to hear those perspectives as well... and understand the intent, but I do see how history affects current perceptions, this adds to the overall "feeling" that the religion is forced. We cannot deny that. This can be similar to America was founded on Slavery and we were having a discussion on how African Americans are still being oppressed but they shouldnt bring up slavery. It does account for much. All deep concepts are rooted in something, understanding that helps us understand the whole and the present condition.

I can deny it. I am an Atheist in the Bible Belt and don't look to what people that are long dead did way back when. I see how I'm treated in the here and now. I'm not offended when I see a church on every corner, Christmas, Easter, when someone tries to hand me a pamphlet or when someone expects everyone to hold hands and say a prayer before a meal. If it's their tradition to do so I simply sit quietly and wait for them to finish. I don't feel like they are pushing anything on me.

I've never been rejected because I'm a non believer. I don't tell them what they believe is wrong and I am given the same consideration. If a stranger does get a little too pushy I politely tell them that I think religion is a very personal thing and prefer not to talk about it. People don't randomly ask what church we belong to, but will occasionally ask us to attend a special occasion service that their children are participating in. Sometimes we go and sometimes we don't.

I went to church camp when I was young because my friends went. It didn't turn me into a Christian. It was very enjoyable and I can tolerate having a ten minute service every morning before breakfast and another longer one before dinner. Nothing forced there either. As a matter of fact, religion wasn't mentioned at all outside of the chapel and it was where I learned a lot of dirty jokes. :whistle:

I like to think you get back what you put out in this world and I can honestly say most people are fairly considerate. As a matter of fact, I've been chastised by more Atheists or agnostics on UM because they don't feel like I am aggressive enough and don't stand up for all Atheists rights. Well, my rights have never been in danger and if someone wants to say a prayer in a public place there is no skin off my nose.

Edited by Michelle, 04 April 2013 - 05:12 PM.


#27    IamsSon

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:49 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 04 April 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

I will respond to this because this is in response to me and Michelle's interaction, I think your being sarcastic but I'm not sure... I am not trying to denigrate Christianity at all, I just dont want us to be blind to certain facts. The truth will set us free. :)

Blessings :)
Given the large number of threads in UM that discuss the atrocities that have been carried out under the umbrella of Christianity, derailing this thread to rehash those discussions seems utterly unnecessary.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#28    Michelle

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 04:51 PM

View PostIamsSon, on 04 April 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

What's wrong with you Michelle!?  How could you possibly expect a serious dicussion about religion when this presents such a wonderful opportunity to denigrate Christianity?

Ya know, we all need to learn from the past, but we don't have to live in it. :tu:


#29    OverSword

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 06:11 PM

View PostIamsSon, on 04 April 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Given the large number of threads in UM that discuss the atrocities that have been carried out under the umbrella of Christianity, derailing this thread to rehash those discussions seems utterly unnecessary.
IamsSon, I have gone back and read all of SpiritWriters comments on this thread and she not once mentions atrocities perpetrated in the name of Christianity.  This she never once bashes Christianity at all as a matter of fact.


#30    Michelle

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 06:14 PM

View PostOverSword, on 04 April 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

IamsSon, I have gone back and read all of SpiritWriters comments on this thread and she not once mentions atrocities perpetrated in the name of Christianity.  This she never once bashes Christianity at all as a matter of fact.

No she didn't. She responded to my request to stay on topic, which started the whole conversation. :blush:





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