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It something bout jupiter


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#226    Grey Area

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 11:58 AM

I feel a little sorry for the OPer here.

There are a lot of assumptions in this thread, a lot of which assumes, and has been stated, that the formation of the solar system is well understood.  In actual fact it is not, the formation of planetary systems is very much still a big mystery.  This is why Astronomers pay a lot of attention to young systems in the hope they can gain a little understanding of how those systems are forming, and any models of how the Solar System formed are pure theory.

Clearly the OPer lacks some fundamental understanding here of how certain aspects of physics work, but no one here can argue 100% against their theory.  Why is it so inconcievable that a rocky body orbiting Jupiter wasnt knocked closer to the sun, perhaps in that journey this body fragmented further creating all the inner planets and forming the asteroid belt?

Dont get me wrong, I am not supporting the OP's statement, I do believe we have a good theoretical model of the formation of the Solar System, however I feel I need to speak out against some of the conceit I have witnessed in this thread.  Anyone who has a little understanding of Physics, particularly Relativity should know that pretty much anything is possible within these realms.

A note to the OPer:  Dont assume your theory is the correct one, it takes a truly intelligent person to happily accept their theory is incorrect, becuase every theory that is proven wrong takes us a step closer to knowing the truth.

"Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No
matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there
first, and is waiting for it."

Terry Pratchett.

#227    Nick D

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:02 PM

View PostMR.Blueprint, on 08 April 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

quote name='Slave2Fate What is wrong with the accepted planetary accretion model that suggests that the planets formed individually and in no real discernible order?-----'

because smart ppl kno it had to be an discernible order


So basically you are saying that the Universe is completely structured and linear?  That we must look for explicit patterns and order to understand the universe?  It sounds like your argument is very predeterministic - I think you should immerse yourself in religion, not science...Mr Blueprint...

Edited by Nick D, 10 April 2013 - 12:35 PM.

ND

#228    Nick D

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:20 PM

View PostMR.Blueprint, on 09 April 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

my point was its planets in the asteroid belt

by definition all the asteroid should be know as planets then

But we define based on characteristics.  A planet and an asteroid may both be comprised of rock, but both behave differently.  The asteroid that swung past Earth a month ago does not behave like a planet, instead more like a lump of rock travelling through space, manipulated by it passing through various orbits, such as Earth's.  Therefore, we distinguish it as an asteroid, not a planet.  There are 'well-behaved' asteroids, such as those in the asteroid belt that are (temporarily) bound to an orbit, but they are raw materials, left-overs from the big-bang and other cosmic events.  A planet has gathered these raw materials, bound them, and became something different from a typical asteroid - which we call a Planet.  Just because you have eggs and butter doesn't mean you have successfully made a cake.  If all asteroids should be planets, then by your own skewed logic all planets should therefore be asteroids, also.

I can understand a lot of people's frustration here, I'm feeling it myself.  Mr. Blueprint - one thing that comes across this whole thread is that once challenged with facts you move on to a new sub-topic; we have came from Eath being a moon to all asteroids being planets, and everything in-between.  Congratulations for thinking-up an 'original' theory, you now belong to the human race.  To question is the very thing that makes us human, but accept that perhaps your own logic or arguments are varified null and void when those with more knowledge and understanding illustrate why you are wrong or which points you have missed.

Remember, ignorance has no place in debate.  Right?

Edited by Nick D, 10 April 2013 - 12:32 PM.

ND

#229    scowl

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 03:54 PM

View PostGrey Area, on 10 April 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Clearly the OPer lacks some fundamental understanding here of how certain aspects of physics work, but no one here can argue 100% against their theory.  Why is it so inconcievable that a rocky body orbiting Jupiter wasnt knocked closer to the sun, perhaps in that journey this body fragmented further creating all the inner planets and forming the asteroid belt?

There are an infinite number of conceivable theories. There is no evidence that Earth was ever a moon of Jupiter so there's no reason to believe that ever happened. Why not also speculate that Earth was once a moon of Saturn also, and got passed back and forth between it and Jupiter a few times? Who are you to say that didn't happen?

In science we go for the simplest explanations first, not the most exciting ones.


#230    Grey Area

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:43 AM

Well I think you completely missed the point of my post here, or maybe chose to read a section and completely ignored the rest, but in doing so reinforced what I was trying to say.

View Postscowl, on 10 April 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

There are an infinite number of conceivable theories.

Bang on!  My post was directed at those who clearly cannot accept this fact and instead of presenting a viable alternative theory or attempting to educate, simply attacked and assumed an air pompous superiority.

View Postscowl, on 10 April 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

There is no evidence that Earth was ever a moon of Jupiter so there's no reason to believe that ever happened. Why not also speculate that Earth was once a moon of Saturn also, and got passed back and forth between it and Jupiter a few times? Who are you to say that didn't happen?

Once again, did you read my post?  Where in that post did I preach for or against any particular theory.  I mentioned that I felt that there was a good model of the formation of the Solar System, and stated that I personally did not support the OP'ers theory.  However, I also did not discount the possibility, and went on to state that every theory that is discounted adds to the likelihood of achieving the most probable sequence of events.

It is my firm belief that people should never stop pondering, never stop asking questions and never be afraid to put forward alternatives in anything, no matter how silly they sound.  Fundamentally this is how we learn.  Everyone at some point will have been in a situation where they were afraid to learn, because they were afraid of the reactions of those around them, and it is those attacks, that are evident here, that I am frustrated at.

View Postscowl, on 10 April 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

In science we go for the simplest explanations first, not the most exciting ones.

Yes we accept those theories as being the most likely, sure.  But how would we choose the simplist theory if other less simple ones werent also presented, and if those who presented those theories lived in fear of ridicule then we would not get anywhere.  Who are you to assume that just because a theory is more complicated or less likely than another, then it can not play a valid part of the learning process.

"Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No
matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there
first, and is waiting for it."

Terry Pratchett.

#231    Hazzard

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:22 PM

Im afraid Mr.Blueprint wont be answering any more questions, or reclassifying celestial objects.

He is on vacation,... a very long one.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#232    seeder

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:50 PM

View PostHazzard, on 11 April 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Im afraid Mr.Blueprint wont be answering any more questions, or reclassifying celestial objects.

He is on vacation,... a very long one.

I wonder why that is then? :yes:

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#233    dannyboy52

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:53 PM

View Postseeder, on 11 April 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

I wonder why that is then? :yes:

Well Jupiter is quite a distance even for an interstellar traveller like him.


#234    Merc14

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:57 PM

View PostHazzard, on 11 April 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Im afraid Mr.Blueprint wont be answering any more questions, or reclassifying celestial objects.

He is on vacation,... a very long one.

I never quite knew if we was just a kid or was truly that uneducated, that stupid or just being a troll.  I think it may have been a combination of all of the latter three.

Nice midterms democrats.  As Pelosi says, "Embrace the suck".

#235    seeder

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:01 PM

View Postdannyboy52, on 11 April 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Well Jupiter is quite a distance even for an interstellar traveller like him.

So, Prot has gone back to K-Pax then?... :w00t:

I dunno, forums dont half attract some weird posters, with screwy ideas dont they?

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me... It's all the rabbit poop you stumble over on your way down...
“It's easier to fool people - than to convince them that they have been fooled.”  Mark Twain

"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it"

#236    Hazzard

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:36 PM

View PostMerc14, on 11 April 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

I never quite knew if we was just a kid or was truly that uneducated, that stupid or just being a troll.  I think it may have been a combination of all of the latter three.

My guess would be the first three.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#237    dannyboy52

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:36 PM

Yeah, but he was loving it!! All the thought going to the grammatical errors ..... and maintaining it, shows he wasn't stupid , just an ego maniac .Wonder if it rains on K-pax ?


#238    Hazzard

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 02:07 PM

I just spent a couple of minutes reading through the thread,... Its already a classic. :lol:




Posted Image  





Maybe we will see a volume 2 some day,...

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#239    Taun

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 02:26 PM

View Postscowl, on 10 April 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

There are an infinite number of conceivable theories. There is no evidence that Earth was ever a moon of Jupiter so there's no reason to believe that ever happened. Why not also speculate that Earth was once a moon of Saturn also, and got passed back and forth between it and Jupiter a few times? Who are you to say that didn't happen?

In science we go for the simplest explanations first, not the most exciting ones.

My new theory is that Jupiter and Saturn played ping-pong with the Earth for millions of years and finally Saturn smashed one across the net and Jupiter missed (a point for Saturn), so the Earth fell into the inner solar system...

(however, I will admit when I'm kidding :P )


#240    seeder

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 02:35 PM

View PostTaun, on 11 April 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

My new theory is that Jupiter and Saturn played ping-pong with the Earth for millions of years and finally Saturn smashed one across the net and Jupiter missed (a point for Saturn), so the Earth fell into the inner solar system...

(however, I will admit when I'm kidding :P )

:tu:

Posted Image

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me... It's all the rabbit poop you stumble over on your way down...
“It's easier to fool people - than to convince them that they have been fooled.”  Mark Twain

"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it"




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