Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Beard cutting by Amish hate crime


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1    Ashotep

Ashotep

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,401 posts
  • Joined:10 May 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

  • Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway-John Wayne

Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:32 AM

The leader of this Amish group was charged with a hate crime and got 15 years for cutting a beard off.  They claim it was church business.

Personally I don't think a religious group has the right to do anything they want to you but I think 15 years is a little much for cutting someones beard off.

Amish in prison for beard-cutting hate crimes fight for release


#2    third_eye

third_eye

    _ M Ġ ń Ř Ī Ş_

  • Member
  • 7,251 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia

  • "Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus"

    God has no religion ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:40 AM

it wasn't just the 'beard' , which does take a long time to cultivate ... nonetheless it's the crime in the 'hate crime' that is the issue that makes the years, 15 sounds about right

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#3    GreenmansGod

GreenmansGod

    Bio-Electric sentient being.

  • Member
  • 9,626 posts
  • Joined:23 Jun 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Hurricane State

  • May the laughter ye give today return to thee 3 fold.

Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:51 AM

If the person is held down and his beard cut off against his will I would think that would be assault. Depending how many people they did it to, 15 years might be about right.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." Salman Rushdie

#4    libstaK

libstaK

    Nosce Te Ipsum

  • 6,620 posts
  • Joined:06 Feb 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

  • Hello Reality and all that is True
    When Oxymoron was defined it was just for you

Posted 06 April 2013 - 01:04 AM

In the story they speak to it being judged as a "Federal Hate Crime" because the scissors used were designated by law as an instrument of "interstate commerce".  Seriously?  That is simply a ridiculous interpretation of the law.

I think what they did was wrong but I cannot see how the prosecution and government instumentalities have gotten away with their interpretation of the act so they can apply the harshest of possible penalties.

It also states that the defendants are being scattered across many states in the prison system.  It is manifestly unfair and discriminatory against them receiving family visits when it is well known that the Amish do not drive or fly.  They are being effectively isolated from all contact for cutting some folks beards, let's get a little real here with the wastefulness of time and resources in getting this lot convicted at this level.  It reeks of zealous persecution quite frankly.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#5    Ashotep

Ashotep

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,401 posts
  • Joined:10 May 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

  • Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway-John Wayne

Posted 06 April 2013 - 01:05 AM

The thing is people have shot someone and got less time than that.  They should be punished yes but 15 years.


#6    Ashotep

Ashotep

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,401 posts
  • Joined:10 May 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

  • Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway-John Wayne

Posted 06 April 2013 - 01:12 AM

View PostlibstaK, on 06 April 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

In the story they speak to it being judged as a "Federal Hate Crime" because the scissors used were designated by law as an instrument of "interstate commerce".  Seriously?  That is simply a ridiculous interpretation of the law.

I think what they did was wrong but I cannot see how the prosecution and government instumentalities have gotten away with their interpretation of the act so they can apply the harshest of possible penalties.

It also states that the defendants are being scattered across many states in the prison system.  It is manifestly unfair and discriminatory against them receiving family visits when it is well known that the Amish do not drive or fly.  They are being effectively isolated from all contact for cutting some folks beards, let's get a little real here with the wastefulness of time and resources in getting this lot convicted at this level.  It reeks of zealous persecution quite frankly.
I got the idea from the article they were working hard to get as stiff of a penalty against them as possible.


#7    Euphorbia

Euphorbia

    Odd Plant Grower

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,269 posts
  • Joined:19 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somewhere east of San Francisco

  • You can't just choose to believe something.

    Believing in something doesn't make it true.

Posted 06 April 2013 - 03:22 AM

View PostHilander, on 06 April 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

The leader of this Amish group was charged with a hate crime and got 15 years for cutting a beard off.  They claim it was church business.

Personally I don't think a religious group has the right to do anything they want to you but I think 15 years is a little much for cutting someones beard off.

Amish in prison for beard-cutting hate crimes fight for release

I have absolutely no problem with Samuel Mullet Sr. getting fifteen years in prison. ( He'll probably only serve a fraction of that time). I see him as a bully and almost like a gang leader. He wanted to be the absolute ruler of the Amish community he lived in and he had no right to bully and threaten the other Amish that had "defied or denounced Mullet's authoritarian style."  He and his followers carried out four separate attacks on nine men......one a 79 year old.

To be pulled out of their house's and held by one or more while Samuel Mullet Sr. and his sons and other followers cut off their beards and the hair of these nine men with horse-mane shears is definitely an assault and in my opinion a hate crime. Only Samuel Mullet Sr. received fifteen years while the rest got between one and seven years.

As far as people saying their families will not be able to see them while incarcerated.....so what, that's their choice. Their families can travel to see them if they want.....they just refuse to travel by any other means than horse and buggy. Prison is prison......they're not supposed to be great places to live in......

I have no sympathy for those that use bullying tactics and physical assault to try to keep control of others whose business is their own.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.

Separation of corporation and state!

#8    jules99

jules99

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,035 posts
  • Joined:07 Oct 2009

Posted 06 April 2013 - 07:35 AM

Who would of thought the Amish were capable of such barber-ism..
I always loved the thought of the Amish way of life after watching Witness, I hope the bullys get punished but maybe 15 yrs is too much


#9    Mabon

Mabon

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,600 posts
  • Joined:08 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Female

  • Blackadder: Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?
    Baldrick: Yes, it's like goldy and bronzy only it's made out of iron.

Posted 06 April 2013 - 08:15 AM

http://www.cbsnews.c...-son-testifies/

Quote

"We want to talk with you and your dad." Once inside, one of the defendants, whom he identified as Johnny Mullet -- son of accused ringleader Sam Mullet Sr. -- stood up and said: "We're from Bergholz. We're here to do what you did to our people."
Hersherger described a chaotic scene, with the men holding down him, his father and his brother. He said his father covered his head, pleading "Don't shear me, don't shear me."
Prosecutors showed jurors a photo of a man, identified by Hershberger as Johnny Mullet, standing over his father and holding him near his throat during the attack. Another suspect had taken the pictures with a disposable camera, investigators said.
They targeted a leader they disagreed with, held him and his sons while they assaulted him. What changed it to a hate crime is that it's a religious leader they targeted because this group disagreed with him and sought to silence, intimidate, humiliate him through an act of violence. Just because they are a member of the same group doesn't change the fact that they used violence to achieve their goal. 15 years to the leader and dispersing the rest of the members the gang throughout the prison system is normal, it disrupts the strength of the gang. Don't sympathize with the offenders based on the idea of the nonviolent Amish, obviously they are just as capable of violence, therefore subject to the law, as any other citizen.

Mabon.

Edited this to add. This wasn't the first attack this group made on other members either. There were others reported within the same year.

Edited by Mabon, 06 April 2013 - 08:18 AM.

One need not be a chamber to be haunted;
One need not be a house;
The brain has corridors surpassing
Material place.  ~ Emily Dickinson


#10    third_eye

third_eye

    _ M Ġ ń Ř Ī Ş_

  • Member
  • 7,251 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia

  • "Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus"

    God has no religion ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:25 AM

I wonder if a vegan was forced to eat meat under violent pressure of physical harm could get as far as the high court ....

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#11    Ashotep

Ashotep

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,401 posts
  • Joined:10 May 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

  • Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway-John Wayne

Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:37 PM

View PostMabon, on 06 April 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

http://www.cbsnews.c...-son-testifies/

They targeted a leader they disagreed with, held him and his sons while they assaulted him. What changed it to a hate crime is that it's a religious leader they targeted because this group disagreed with him and sought to silence, intimidate, humiliate him through an act of violence. Just because they are a member of the same group doesn't change the fact that they used violence to achieve their goal. 15 years to the leader and dispersing the rest of the members the gang throughout the prison system is normal, it disrupts the strength of the gang. Don't sympathize with the offenders based on the idea of the nonviolent Amish, obviously they are just as capable of violence, therefore subject to the law, as any other citizen.

Mabon.

Edited this to add. This wasn't the first attack this group made on other members either. There were others reported within the same year.
Starting to see why the leader got 15 years.


#12    Mabon

Mabon

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,600 posts
  • Joined:08 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Female

  • Blackadder: Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?
    Baldrick: Yes, it's like goldy and bronzy only it's made out of iron.

Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:26 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 06 April 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

I wonder if a vegan was forced to eat meat under violent pressure of physical harm could get as far as the high court ....
It would be an assault and possibly battery not a hate crime. Depending on how much force was used by the offender to get the vegan to eat meat, how the individual was restrained was a weapon involved or other considerations would determine the amount of time spent in prison. Then you also have other charges that could be tacked on to the assault like kidnapping/false imprisonment.

View PostHilander, on 06 April 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Starting to see why the leader got 15 years.
A couple of years ago on the forum a teacher cut a boys hair in class because they didn't like the length of the child's hair and commented to him on numerous occasions that it made him look like a girl and even made him wear pink ribbons in his hair to shame and ridicule him. Most people couldn't see the harm just like in this case because it was after all only hair. No, it's not only hair it's assault. Someone decided that they didn't like something about someone appearance, views (fill in the blank) and decided to change it without the consent of the individual and to accomplish it without consent requires force and/or coercion. It's also arrogant of the offender to presume that their taste, views (fill in the blank) are superior to the person or ideals they find offensive and to insist that it be complied with by violence is legally assault/and battery. I'm glad that this group has been charged and found guilty. Using scissors on someone who is struggling is dangerous and who is to say that the person being assaulted didn't have fear while this was being done to them, if they are capable of cutting your hair/beard because they are upset, to what end would they also be willing to go to?
In the Amish case it's assault and battery because harm was implied and when the victim bled it became battery.  Also this gang acted like trophy hunters when they took pictures of their crime to me it is like any serial killer who takes trophies, sick because it shows planning and delight in the suffering of others.

Mabon.

One need not be a chamber to be haunted;
One need not be a house;
The brain has corridors surpassing
Material place.  ~ Emily Dickinson


#13    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 15,188 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 07 April 2013 - 12:09 AM

View PostEuphorbia, on 06 April 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

I have absolutely no problem with Samuel Mullet Sr. getting fifteen years in prison. ( He'll probably only serve a fraction of that time). I see him as a bully and almost like a gang leader. He wanted to be the absolute ruler of the Amish community he lived in and he had no right to bully and threaten the other Amish that had "defied or denounced Mullet's authoritarian style."  He and his followers carried out four separate attacks on nine men......one a 79 year old.

To be pulled out of their house's and held by one or more while Samuel Mullet Sr. and his sons and other followers cut off their beards and the hair of these nine men with horse-mane shears is definitely an assault and in my opinion a hate crime. Only Samuel Mullet Sr. received fifteen years while the rest got between one and seven years.

As far as people saying their families will not be able to see them while incarcerated.....so what, that's their choice. Their families can travel to see them if they want.....they just refuse to travel by any other means than horse and buggy. Prison is prison......they're not supposed to be great places to live in......

I have no sympathy for those that use bullying tactics and physical assault to try to keep control of others whose business is their own.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
To me it is a similar offence to those harrasment activities of the klu klux Klan in the first and middle part of the last century.I  think that is why it is classified as a hate crime with a high penalty. To put fear into people through force, coercion and viloence, is one of the worst thinkgs one human can do to another. It was based on religious beliefs and the belief that one has a right to compel others to your own beliefs and behaviours

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users