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How Much Longer?


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#16    and then

and then

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:37 AM

View PostJackofalltrades, on 07 April 2013 - 01:41 AM, said:

The use of those Atomic Bombs saved lives by killing INNOCENT civilian's, including women and children, and in my opinion was done so as a test, to test the capabilities of the Atomic bomb (there is only so much You can learn from dropping the A bomb in the middle of nowhere)

As for having a nutjob telling me what goods, services and food will cost, I am sure there is more than one nutjob in the UK government that does that already.....

The last time Iran invaded another country was 214 years ago, can the same be said for other power hungry country's, including UK and US ?

It seems like when it come's to Iran You have already made Your mind up on the subject, (possibly due to them being an enemy of Israel ?) It might pay You to take those rose coloured glasses off and look at the issue with an open mind...

Pakistan is a volatile country with a lot of extremist's, they have nuclear power/weapon's, why are You not concerned about them ? as much as You are concerned about Iran ?
North Korea is volatile and they are also testing nuclear weapon's, why are You not concerned about them ? as much as You are concerned about Iran ?

Iran trying to make nuclear weapon's, is at this moment in time pure speculation, and possibly propaganda (for an excuse to attack them ?)
The last statement is ridiculous, frankly.  And if you really believe that then I have to wonder for your sanity but leaving that aside, Hezbollah is without dispute a creation of Iran so saying Iran has not attacked anyone in 200 years is patently false and clearly subterfuge.  Support the mullahs if you care to but let's keep the debate honest, shall we?
My opinion is that Iran has gone too far to be stopped and is just biding time until they assemble the fuel for their weapon.  It will be no shock to anyone when they announce they have gone nuclear.  In fact they will be cheered in these forums by "low information" types who are clueless of the dangers.  But above all else, at least things will be fair(y).  The one comfort I have is that those who cheer them on will suffer just like the rest of us when things go bad.  THAT will be the only fairness you can reasonably expect from Iran.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#17    and then

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:42 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 07 April 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

What business do we have with Iran besides sanctions. None. So why should they care what we think.

I like the Central Bank that isnt a Rothschilds bank. Same thing happened in Iraq and Libya. We all know what happened to them. Thats what we really care about. Not the nuke issue. Thats just the excuse to be asshats to them.
The business of keeping them from becoming another North Korea maybe?  You can see what a nutty tinpot dictator can cause with even a few, crude devices.  Imagine he had the capability (with conventional forces) to choke off 1/5 of the world's oil supply on a whim?  Is that rally so hard to understand?  Iran is an old and very proud nation with deep roots and culture and they clamor for a place on the world stage again.  Unfortunately their mullahs are as crazy as can be and belong to a sect of Shia Islam that really believes it is their duty to bring the world into chaos so their version of a messiah can come back to save the world.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#18    Coffey

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 12:12 PM

View Postand then, on 07 April 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Anything is debatable.  When a bias is  so intransigent that the focus of it can do NO right, ever, then any debate becomes moot however.

A Bias against who? I have no Bias, unlike you.

View PostWearer of Hats, on 07 April 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

Which bit?
Because the Japanese did strike Pearl Harbour, declaring war scant moments before the first bombs dropped and all because they didn't want the Yanks getting involved in their "military adventurism".
America was well and truly in it's "if we ignore it, it's not happening" phase in 1941.

You need to go back to the end of WW1 if you truly want to know why Japan attacked the US.

These things are enver as clear as most people think.


Also here's a good question... If the US's Aircraft carrier fleet etc where not at Pearl Harbour... Did the goverment know what was coming?

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.

#19    Coffey

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 12:20 PM

View Postand then, on 07 April 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Hezbollah is without dispute a creation of Iran so saying Iran has not attacked anyone in 200 years is patently false and clearly subterfuge.

WRONG.....

Quote


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.

#20    third_eye

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 01:01 PM

View Postand then, on 07 April 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

The use of the atomic bombs saved more lives by far than it cost.  That was a war - a war started by the Japanese and they paid the price.  Iran wants to dominate the M.E. and control access to most of the oil in the world.  You okay with a religious nutjob telling you what your goods, services and food will cost?  The ability to control the price of that energy affects EVERYTHING.  But hey - as long as we keep everything fair, right?   Unbelievable.... :no:


Quote

Natural Gas Exports from Iran
Released: October 9, 2012
This assessment of the natural gas sector in Iran, with a focus on Iran’s natural gas exports, was prepared pursuant to section 505 (a) of the Iran Threat Reduction and Syria Human Rights Act of 2012 (Public Law No: 112-158). As requested, it includes: (1) an assessment of exports of natural gas from Iran; (2) an identification of the countries that purchase the most natural gas from Iran; (3) an assessment of alternative supplies of natural gas available to those countries; (4) an assessment of the impact a reduction in exports of natural gas from Iran would have on global natural gas supplies and the price of natural gas, especially in countries identified under number (2); and (5) such other information as the Administrator considers appropriate.
link

Quote

The prospect of the US changing into a net exporter of natural gas has prompted an increasingly sharp debate over whether the US should send its newfound energy bounty abroad where current prices exceed US prices (Fig. 1). The US Congress is unlikely to stay on the sidelines on this policy issue, as evinced by the introduction of legislative proposals to authorize greater gas exports and the Feb. 12, 2013, hearings on LNG exports by the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources.
link

you need to catch up ... its no longer about the oil ...... as production manufacturing numbers falls in the near future ... you can drown an Iranian in crude and nobody would care ...

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

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#21    ciriuslea

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 02:15 PM

I hate that justification "the bomb saved more lives", I tend to lean more towards the fact the Russians had joined and the US didn't want the Japanese surrendering to them, the Potsdan declaration called for a complete surrender of which the Japanese were trying to negotiate, did the US think the Russians would accept a lesser surrender ?  
too many factors exist to over simplify the justification with it saved more lives, the US used two they would have completely wiped out Japan to get what they wanted so don't be fooled this was a mercy mission, it was far from it.


#22    and then

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 03:39 PM

View PostCoffey, on 07 April 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

Do you really contend that Iran did not start Hezbollah and even today act as it's chief banker and financial and weapons supporter?  Really?  As to your bias against all things American - I need no proof of that beyond your many, MANY anti American rants.  And yes I am an admitted Zionist and am biased for the state of Israel - never said otherwise but I do not lie to support them and I call them wrong when I see them being wrong.  

View Postciriuslea, on 07 April 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

I hate that justification "the bomb saved more lives", I tend to lean more towards the fact the Russians had joined and the US didn't want the Japanese surrendering to them, the Potsdan declaration called for a complete surrender of which the Japanese were trying to negotiate, did the US think the Russians would accept a lesser surrender ?  
too many factors exist to over simplify the justification with it saved more lives, the US used two they would have completely wiped out Japan to get what they wanted so don't be fooled this was a mercy mission, it was far from it.
We all have opinions now, don't we?  If you had been in training to land on a beach in Operation Coronet your opinion may have been somewhat different.  There is no account of history that I have read that there was any inclination of the Japanese generals to surrender to anyone.  Even AFTER the SECOND BOMB.  The generals did not want to stop - it had gotten to be a little personal for them what with Nuremberg and all.  So cry for the Japanese if you like but I say your attitude would be different if it was your life that had been on the line.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#23    Coffey

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 03:51 PM

View Postand then, on 07 April 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Do you really contend that Iran did not start Hezbollah and even today act as it's chief banker and financial and weapons supporter?  Really?  As to your bias against all things American - I need no proof of that beyond your many, MANY anti American rants.  And yes I am an admitted Zionist and am biased for the state of Israel - never said otherwise but I do not lie to support them and I call them wrong when I see them being wrong.

So where do you get this opinion from about Hezbollah? Where does that information come from? Western media yes? Oh the same western media that does this:




You are syaing you trust the media when they tell you these things? Yet you cnanot view it from an outside of the media view and make your own decisions?! lol


Me biased to the US... NO.

Doe I hate the Federal reserve and their money/war machine and disregard for human life.... Hell yes.

Do I hate America... No way. I love American people and American culture. I jsut don't liek their corrupt leaders.

Do I liek any corrupt leaders? NO. I can't think of one Goverment I would trust.

So If I don't trust any goverments how cna I be biased nto trusting the US goverment? Exactly.

Why does it seem like I am constantly bashing the US goverment then? Oh because I'm actually not. If you actually asked my opinion on Irans goverment I woudl tell you how much I dislike them and how they should not keep the people suppressed liek they do. No youtube etc on the internet, they haven't got much freedom etc. I dilsike Irans goverment. I jsut see them as a lesser evil than the US goverment though. At least the Iranian goverment is honest. The US goverment has it's people living under a false freedom.

Spending your life as a slave to a corrupt system is not freedom. A few people owning the worlds wealth and controlling the goverment system is not liberty. It certianly is not "American".

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.

#24    Jackofalltrades

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 05:24 PM

View Postand then, on 07 April 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

The last statement is ridiculous, frankly.  And if you really believe that then I have to wonder for your sanity but leaving that aside, Hezbollah is without dispute a creation of Iran so saying Iran has not attacked anyone in 200 years is patently false and clearly subterfuge.  Support the mullahs if you care to but let's keep the debate honest, shall we?
My opinion is that Iran has gone too far to be stopped and is just biding time until they assemble the fuel for their weapon.  It will be no shock to anyone when they announce they have gone nuclear.  In fact they will be cheered in these forums by "low information" types who are clueless of the dangers.  But above all else, at least things will be fair(y).  The one comfort I have is that those who cheer them on will suffer just like the rest of us when things go bad.  THAT will be the only fairness you can reasonably expect from Iran.


My last statement is nothing of a sort... Iran trying to make nuclear weapon's, is at this moment in time pure speculation, plain and simple, there is NO evidence (that I know of) that states they are trying to create a nuclear weapon, and yes it could be pure propaganda by Israel US UK and the rest of the countries that are sanctioning Iran, just like the NONE EXISTANT,  WMD's were for invading Iraq ?

You start off by questioning my sanity, trying to make people believe I am insane or the like, and then leave it aside ? what about my sanity ? Did my response to You, really P*** You off that much You have to try and belittle me ? isnt that what those paid internet shill's do ? (not saying You are one just that, that is the tactics they use)

How can we "keep the debate honest" when You yourself stated...

Quote

"I am an admitted Zionist and am biased for the state of Israel"

And Iran is an enemy of Israel, need I say more ?

Debates can NEVER be honest when one person or the other, that is debating is BIASED, in my opinion

The last time Iran invaded another country was 214 years ago - FACT, (maybe one that You may NOT like but it is fact all the same)

I think EVERYONE know's the danger's of Nuclear weapon's and what a nuclear war would cause, whether they are on these forum's or anywhere else, EVEN those "low information types" that You refer to

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#25    ciriuslea

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:05 PM

View Postand then, on 07 April 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

We all have opinions now, don't we?  If you had been in training to land on a beach in Operation Coronet your opinion may have been somewhat different.  There is no account of history that I have read that there was any inclination of the Japanese generals to surrender to anyone.  Even AFTER the SECOND BOMB.  The generals did not want to stop - it had gotten to be a little personal for them what with Nuremberg and all.  So cry for the Japanese if you like but I say your attitude would be different if it was your life that had been on the line.

Regardless, the fact is that Japan did surrender after the second, and that the US dropped two to force that surrender implies the US would have continued to drop until a Japanese surrender, in effect making this mission of mercy argument moot, and calm down no one is crying for the Japanese its an opinion that differs to yours, no need to go all butthurt about it.

I think the fact Marshall Togo deferred any decision being made on rejecting the surrender proposals until they had had chance to speak with the Russians had everything to do with the reason for the strikes, and it also implies that perhaps not all those at the top were hell bent on carrying on,


#26    GoSC

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:10 AM

View Postand then, on 07 April 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Do you really contend that Iran did not start Hezbollah and even today act as it's chief banker and financial and weapons supporter?  Really?  As to your bias against all things American - I need no proof of that beyond your many, MANY anti American rants.  And yes I am an admitted Zionist and am biased for the state of Israel - never said otherwise but I do not lie to support them and I call them wrong when I see them being wrong.  

Coffey is right. Hizbullah resulted from the Israeli INVASION of southern Lebanon during Operation Litani in March 1978 which killed more than a 1,000 Palestinian and Lebanese civilians and caused between 100,000-200,000 to flee their homes in terror and when the Israeli IDF invasion advanced into southern Lebanon on June 6, 1982 in what began the Lebanon War. This advance destroyed Shi'ite Lebanese villages and killed 1,000s of the neutral Shi'ite Lebanese, by the sixth day of the invasion the American Red Cross estimated there were 10,000 Palestinian and Lebanese deaths with an additional estimated 100,000 made homeless. Hizbullah continued to grow in strength in response to Israel's 18 year occupation in Southern Lebanon (1982-2000). Look up "Operation Peace For Gallilee" and "Operation Big Pines".

So to cut to the chase, Hizbullah was the consequence of two Israeli invasions into southern Lebanon, in 1978 and 1982 respectively. And an 18 year occupation.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#27    GoSC

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:19 AM

http://www.specialop...m/mout/pfg.html

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#28    and then

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:49 AM

View PostB Jenkins, on 08 April 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

Coffey is right. Hizbullah resulted from the Israeli INVASION of southern Lebanon during Operation Litani in March 1978 which killed more than a 1,000 Palestinian and Lebanese civilians and caused between 100,000-200,000 to flee their homes in terror and when the Israeli IDF invasion advanced into southern Lebanon on June 6, 1982 in what began the Lebanon War. This advance destroyed Shi'ite Lebanese villages and killed 1,000s of the neutral Shi'ite Lebanese, by the sixth day of the invasion the American Red Cross estimated there were 10,000 Palestinian and Lebanese deaths with an additional estimated 100,000 made homeless. Hizbullah continued to grow in strength in response to Israel's 18 year occupation in Southern Lebanon (1982-2000). Look up "Operation Peace For Gallilee" and "Operation Big Pines".

So to cut to the chase, Hizbullah was the consequence of two Israeli invasions into southern Lebanon, in 1978 and 1982 respectively. And an 18 year occupation.
None of which denies that it is funded, supplied and otherwise nurtured as an arm of Iranian power.  Of COURSE the Palestinians and their allies will fight and continue to struggle.  I found the lesson of Israeli heightened aggressiveness in urban warfare due to rising Israeli casualties to be somewhat silly.  As if it was a surprise.  IMO if a civilian population encourages and supports their own use as human shields then they are as culpable as combatants.  Level the city if necessary.  It is an insane standard to hold any military to.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#29    GoSC

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:28 PM

View Postand then, on 08 April 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

None of which denies that it is funded, supplied and otherwise nurtured as an arm of Iranian power.  Of COURSE the Palestinians and their allies will fight and continue to struggle.  I found the lesson of Israeli heightened aggressiveness in urban warfare due to rising Israeli casualties to be somewhat silly.  As if it was a surprise.  IMO if a civilian population encourages and supports their own use as human shields then they are as culpable as combatants.  Level the city if necessary.  It is an insane standard to hold any military to.

Oh yeah, Israel is notorious for collective punishment. The fatality figures only confirm that.

How quickly people especially the Zionists and their sympathesizers forgotten the Zionist Haganah, Irgun, and Stern Gang terrorists groups, and how they spilled Palestinian, American, and British blood.

The Stern Gang assassinated Lord Moyne a British Resident Minister of the Middle East based in Cairo on November 7 1944.

The Irgun bombed King David Hotel in Jerusalem on July 22 1946. They used 770lbs worth of explosives in a hotel packed full of British, Jews, and Palestinians killing 91 persons and injuring 46.

The combined efforts of the Irgun and Stern Gang on April 9 1948, massacred 260 unarmed defenceless Arab civilians in the village of Deir Yassin. Most of them were women and children. Zionist leader, President of the World Zionist Organization, and First President of the State of Israel, Chaim Weizmann referred to the Deir Yassin massacre as "miraculous simplification of our task." Zionist leader, Executive Head of World Zionist Organization, and first Prime Minister of the State of Israel David Ben-Gurion straighforwardly said "without Deir Yassin there would be no Israel."

May 1948: The U.S. appointed Count Folke Bernadotte of Sweden to mediate between the Arabs and the Israelis. In his first progress report (of Sept. 16, 1948) he recommended that the U.N. should affirm "the right of the Arab refugees to return to their homes in Jewish controlled territory at the earliest possible date." The Israelis responded in their own quiet way. The following day Bernadotte was murdered in Jerusalem.

Responsibility for the spectacular assassination, which caused an international outcry, was claimed by an unknown group, "Fatherland Front," which was actually a cover for Shamir's Stern Gang. Yoshua Zeitler and Meshlam Markover of Stern told Israeli television in 1989 that they respectively directed and led the operation that killed the Swedish diplomat and his French aide-de-camp. Zeitler, 71, said he decided to speak now because of fear that the U.N. and the "goyim" (non-Jews) are again trying to force Israel into concessions.

July 1954: Israeli intelligence planted "a ring of spies (moles)" in Cairo. Its task was to begin sabotage operations against selected Egyptian, British and American targets. On July 14, the Alexandria post office was fire-bombed, and the U.S. Information Agency offices in Cairo and Alexandria were damaged by fire started by phosphorous incendiary devices, as was a British-owned theater.

Members of the spy ring were caught, and they confessed. They had been planted by Modin, the Israeli military intelligence organization. The purpose, presumably, was to sabotage Egyptian relations with the U.S. and Britain. Various commissions of inquiry into the affair conducted in Israel were never able to decide whether or not Israeli Defense Minister Pinchos Lavon authorized the operation. This is Israel operation of sabotage is called the "Lavon Affair".

On June 8 1967, the USS Liberty was deliberately attacked by Israel while in international waters and monitoring communications during the Six Day War, they used US-donated equipment to JAM the ship's S.O.S (!) hoping to sink the ship and murder all aboard. This blatant act of war cost the lives of 34 US navymen and injuring 170 additional more.

In fact, between the years of 1932 to 2008, the Zionists have committed well over 300 acts of terrorism in Palestine and Israel.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#30    third_eye

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:10 PM

Posted Imageamazon link

Quote

How have the Jews survived through so many millennia while other civilizations have declined and perished? What qualities mark the culture that has produced Moses, Christ, Spinoza, Marx, Freud, and Einstein? From ancient Palestine through Europe and the Orient, to America and modern Israel, Max I. Dimont shows how the saga of the Jews is interwoven with the story of virtually every nation on earth. This is a tale of a people escaping annihilation, fighting, falling back, advancing—a lively and fascinating look at how the Jews have contributed to humankind’s spiritual and intellectual heritage in remarkable ways, and across a remarkable span of history.

it all goes back much further in recorded history ....

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer





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