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ET Body - Long Arms


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#76    Abramelin

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:53 PM

View PostSweetpumper, on 12 April 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Starship Troopers.

Maybe I missed an episode, but I haven't seen any spiders in Starship Troopers.


#77    seeder

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:55 PM

Given enough time, where will these bipedal chaps evolve to? The wings are all but redundant....as we all know! Imagine that body slowly evolving totally upright...ie: instead of the belly facing the floor....what if they erected totally?

Posted Image

Edited by seeder, 12 April 2013 - 06:58 PM.

The England team visited an orphanage in Brazil today. “It’s heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope” .....said Jose, age 6.
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#78    seeder

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:59 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 12 April 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

Maybe I missed an episode, but I haven't seen any spiders in Starship Troopers.

sort of anyway

Posted Image

The England team visited an orphanage in Brazil today. “It’s heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope” .....said Jose, age 6.
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#79    Abramelin

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:09 PM

View Postbison, on 12 April 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

I agree that the humanoid form is a good one, in many respects. 'Best' is much more difficult to say.  Perhaps when we have a clearer picture of the forms that intelligent life in the universe takes, we will be better equipped to say. I suspect that there could be a diversity of such forms, and that our current limited knowledge may make it difficult for us to to conceive what these forms would be or how they would function.


Of course we all think the human form is a good one, because we all use that form.

And at present we are the dominant specie on earth, ergo: being bipedal and being able to manipulate things using hands with opposable thumbs is the secret.

As long as we haven't encountered intelligent alien species, we can never be sure what body shape is the most favorable.

We just have no fkg clue.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 12 April 2013 - 07:11 PM.


#80    Abramelin

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:10 PM

View Postseeder, on 12 April 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

sort of anyway

Posted Image

Four legs, NO eyes??

That's no spider.


#81    seeder

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:15 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 12 April 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Four legs, NO eyes??

That's no spider.

But its ALIEN spiders, bound to a bit different aren't they?  hehe I never called them spiders to start with, I just agreed with the suggestion, as wiki states:  Arachnids, (which is a large group that incl spiders, as you know)!

"In the future, humans are a space-faring Federation and contend for planets with a hostile species of large insects known as the Arachnids or "Bugs", whose home-world is the distant planet Klendathu".

http://en.wikipedia....Troopers_(film)

The England team visited an orphanage in Brazil today. “It’s heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope” .....said Jose, age 6.
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me... It's all the rabbit poop you stumble over on your way down...
“It's easier to fool people - than to convince them that they have been fooled.”  Mark Twain

#82    psyche101

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 05:45 AM

View Postlost_shaman, on 12 April 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

Hey psyche,

I have to echo that opinion as you know I agree with that point emphatically. The Hominid design seems to be pefectly suited to both arise in nature and allow a species to thrive technologically via the inherent biomechanical traits of the hominid design.

ETA: The dart point I found and use as my avitar is a great example of relatively early technology that only a Hominid could have produced. No other biological design that has occured on Earth could have physically knapped that dart point even if the intelligence to do so was present.


Gidday Mate

What a pleasure to see you around, I do miss you my friend.

I can only agree, and reminisce about the many fine conversations we have had concerning the point Simon Conway-Morris has produced, and they are difficult points to debate. It seems to me to hinge on being capable of kickstarting an Industrial revolution  and no other body shape has achieved that, yet had all the time, and opportunity, literally, in the world.

Cheers.

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#83    psyche101

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 05:57 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 12 April 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

I think that is highly based on our human bias. We have no knowledge at all of other civilized races, and thus have no idea how they might look.


Not at all, it has nothing to do with being human, in fact anything but. It has a great deal more to do with the 50 billion body shapes this planet has seen to date, and which one has become intelligent. This one. Not only us, but Neanderthal, Denisovian, Flores, Palau, Meganthropus, and I would bet a few yet to discover.


View PostAbramelin, on 12 April 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

An alien might have developed in water/oceans and look like a cephalopod (octopus, squid).

"But for a species to attain intelligence..."


How would an underwater species attain fire, and then propulsion for ships?

What need would they have to harness fire to begin with?

View PostAbramelin, on 12 April 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

I have said (in the Nature forum) a couple of times that there are several biologists who have put ravens between man and apes (concerning intelligence).

+++

EDIT:

Scientists have argued for decades over whether wild creatures, including birds, show genuine intelligence.  Some still consider the human mind to be unique, with animals capable of only the simplest mental processes.  But a new generation of scientists believe that creatures, including birds, can solve problems by insight and even learn by example, as human children do.  Birds can even talk in a meaningful way.

Some birds show quite astonishing powers of recall.  The Clarke's nutcracker, a type of North American crow, may have the animal world's keenest memory.  It collects up to 30,000 pine seeds over 3 weeks in November, then carefully buries them for safe keeping across over an area of 200 square miles.  Over the next 8 months, it succeeds in retrieving over 90% of them, even when they are covered in feet of snow.

On the Pacific island of New Caledonia, the crows demonstrate a tool-making, and tool using, capability comparable to Palaeolithic man's. Dr Gavin Hunt, a New Zealand biologist, spent 3 years observing the birds.  He found that they used two different forms of hooked "tool" to pull grubs from deep within tree trunks.

Other birds and some primates have been seen to use objects to forage.  But what is unusual here is that the crows also make their own tools.  Using their beaks as scissors and snippers, they fashion hooks from twigs, and make barbed, serrated rakes or combs from stiff leathery leaves.  And they don't throw the tools away after one use - they carry them from one foraging place to another.


http://flatrock.org....s_of_deceit.htm


.


Darrn Naish is one I know of that say avians could have developed into intelligent beings, and opposes the Dinosauroid model. His version of evolved avians is thus:

Posted Image

LINK - Tetrapod Zoology


But I cannot say I am confident, we lost need for a tail as an example, and Birds did rule the earth, they had their time as top predator, but not for long, and lost it. We are the only species that manipulates the environment, not the other way around, as such, I feel it highly likely that convergeant evolution is likely not restricted to this planet, which to my way of thinking does not rule out ape like aliens who eat alien KFC. Whilst it is indeed fascinating that some birds do manage some rudimentary tasks with tools, they are not only a long way behind us despite having a decent head start, but Orangutan's seem more than capable of outpacing birds where tool use is concerned as well. It's just a better shape to manipulate the environment and allow and Industrial Revolution. It seems very logical to me, and has nothing at all to do with being human.

Edited by psyche101, 15 April 2013 - 05:58 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#84    psyche101

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:00 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 12 April 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

You think of  a starship created by humans.


Not so much as overcoming the vastness of space.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#85    psyche101

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:06 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 12 April 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

Look at the 'saws' or 'harpoons' these New Caledonian crows made:

(click to enlarge)

Posted Image


But with a 65 million year head start? And we have Plasma Tellies? This is no more advanced than the Aye Aye's middle finger is it? I thought this was impressive.


Posted ImagePosted Image


Orangutans Use Simple Tools to Catch Fish

Edited by psyche101, 15 April 2013 - 06:06 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#86    psyche101

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:08 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 12 April 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

And about being able to manipulate things: has anyone ever thought of spiders?

Fire again seems something of a problem, and not something they ever need to acquire, nor do they have much in the way of leverage, and their physiology restricts their size.

View PostEsoteric Toad, on 12 April 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Other animals being able to use tools does not necessarily make a good analogy to aliens abilities. If octopus, various primates, sea mammals and some birds use tools they could still be at the end of their evolutionary 'path'. If evolution works as we believe it does the animals mentioned would have to have some sort of impetus to evolve beyond their current abilities. If that does not occur they would continue to behave as they are now for eternity...there would be no need for them to change since they are able to feed and reproduce as they are now. Perhaps if there were a mutation that would further that it would proceed beyond their current abilities but that can work against them too (competition).

Seeder, you posted a pic of a spider. I got a kick out of the always in the bathroom statement. Here in Florida there were always spiders ending up in the bath tub. They were a bit different: Their legs span about the size of my hand.
Attachment cf0d3d0a-799d-4a92-9666-c989855be523.jpg
Used to freak me out. I have this thing were I will not kill a spider but I could not bring myself to rescue these things...always had someone else do it for me. Yeah I am a guy....but I have a few phobias, so there. They do not build webs, they leap on their prey and they are fast. Freaky buggers.

edited to add: JMO :tu:


Agreed, and put simply, this is why birds and spiders do not have plasma tellies but we do.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#87    psyche101

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:16 AM

View Postseeder, on 12 April 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:



PREDICTION THREE
Humans to Achieve Electronic Immortality

.


I have seen a bit on this recently, amazing ideal. Some bloke cutting brains up into nanoslices, and mapping the connections. This truly would be immortality. What would we become, and would we look down at meat aliens after a few centuries?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#88    Zeta Reticulum

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:15 AM

View Postseeder, on 12 April 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Given enough time, where will these bipedal chaps evolve to? The wings are all but redundant....as we all know! Imagine that body slowly evolving totally upright...ie: instead of the belly facing the floor....what if they erected totally?

Posted Image
So it follows  that if we all flap our arms each day for a couple million years, we will grow feathers and take flight.... no more need for airliners, or gasoline.This then should be made a daily requirement by all earth governments.


#89    seeder

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 12:58 PM

View PostZeta Reticulum, on 15 April 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

So it follows  that if we all flap our arms each day for a couple million years, we will grow feathers and take flight.... no more need for airliners, or gasoline.This then should be made a daily requirement by all earth governments.

you take the post out of the context it was posted in... at one point we had discussed how birds may have evolved into an intelligent species, elsewhere

The England team visited an orphanage in Brazil today. “It’s heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope” .....said Jose, age 6.
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“It's easier to fool people - than to convince them that they have been fooled.”  Mark Twain

#90    Slave2Fate

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 02:11 PM

View PostZeta Reticulum, on 15 April 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

So it follows  that if we all flap our arms each day for a couple million years, we will grow feathers and take flight.... no more need for airliners, or gasoline.This then should be made a daily requirement by all earth governments.

Evolution is a complete mystery to you isn't it?

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