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Near Death Experiences[NDEs]


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#16    Rafterman

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:46 AM

View Postspartan max2, on 08 April 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

The answer to that is yes. Unless the people takeing the surveys are not telling the truth. Which could be true too.

Again, links.  What surveys?

And if you think about it, if someone has been deaf/blind since birth, and then says they could see/hear during a NDE, how do we know that's really the case.  I'm sure in their mind they "think" they know what it's like to see/hear.

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#17    jjphere

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:47 AM

I had an NDE experience, or at least I believe I did, and I wrote about it here, in "Alive Again".

I changed... now I didn't say I was perfect, but I changed "big time". Before my NDE, when I married, I had to go with
my fiance to talk to a strict church pastor. I was supposed to "know" that I was saved and going to
Heaven one day. I didn't know that and I was not going to lie about it either, but it turned out that he
didn't ask, and so he married us.

After my NDE, I know 100% for sure that there is a God and a Christ,
and a Holy Spirit, and yes I am going to Heaven when I die.
If I said that I did not know then I would be lying.


#18    Rafterman

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:49 AM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 09 April 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

The one thing you have to understand about science is that they don't know the answers as to why NDE's happen, they have about as many facts as religion does. All they have done is given their best guess to what is happening, and even that is full of holes. I mean, there's stories of some people who have NDE's in theatre who can describe in great detail what they saw during a life saving operation. I guess that's just a chemical reaction in the brain too. Unfortunately, for the cases science can't explain, usually it is the "liar" label which comes out.

I don't believe in Heaven or Hell perse but for sure I could see why a certain individual might see demons during a NDE. When you die, the barriers come down and you're likely to be surrounded by negative entities if you have a negative energy yourself.

Death is nothing to fear, energy cannot be destroyed. It really will be like just stepping into another room and I for one (in the most non-morbid way possible) can't wait to get back home :)

How then do you correlate that to the Sartori research discussed in my link?  Frankly I think most of us could make a fairly accurate stab at describing a surgical procedure.  And who are these descriptions made to?  Authors writing NDE books or the surgeon/nurse who was in the room at the time?

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#19    Rafterman

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:52 AM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 09 April 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

I am not naïve.  There are some people that rely solely on logic or science to describe things in this world that are often indescribable.  Simply put, I think it is weird to think that people from different cultures, beliefs, backgrounds, and locations would all have almost exactly the same types of experiences.  For example, why would there be the same sights, sounds, or details that are almost identical?  Some may see that as random and coincidence.  If everything about the near death experiences were explained by irrefutable scientific evidence, I would be inclined to dismiss it as a mere coincidental chemical reaction that we all have.  Anyone who has read about these experiences in-depth or has researched it to any degree would notice that there are too many details about them to be either random or coincidental.  Too much of it cannot be fully explained and that's the reason I believe there is something very real to this.  

How then do you explain anxiety dreams?  Millions of people around the world in very different cultures have the same kinds of dreams.

Or for that matter, what about sleep paralysis?  Millions describe seeing the same types of entities in the room with them during SP episodes - old hags, demons, aliens, shadow figures, etc.

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#20    notforgotten

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:23 AM

View PostRafterman, on 10 April 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

.Or for that matter, what about sleep paralysis?  Millions describe seeing the same types of entities in the room with them during SP episodes - old hags, demons, aliens, shadow figures, etc.
I believe that I can answer that question. Just pretend that I'm the final authority on the matter and that my word is the end of end all. LOL :innocent:  IMO sleep paralysis is really were the body is asleep but the spirit is awake. I believe those people really did see old hags, demons, aliens, shadow figures, etc.

Edited by notforgotten, 10 April 2013 - 02:24 AM.


#21    spartan max2

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 03:10 AM

View PostRafterman, on 10 April 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

Again, links.  What surveys?

And if you think about it, if someone has been deaf/blind since birth, and then says they could see/hear during a NDE, how do we know that's really the case.  I'm sure in their mind they "think" they know what it's like to see/hear.

http://near-death.co...evidence03.html

http://readersupport...t-a-dying-brain

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
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#22    spartan max2

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 03:14 AM

View PostRafterman, on 10 April 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Link please.  And, if true, what are the thresholds?

http://www.ehow.com/...ygen-brain.html

look at the loss of memory part

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
Criss Jami

#23    White Crane Feather

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 03:40 AM

The dying brain hypothesis has been defeated over and over again on many fronts and amounts to nothing more than conjecture..... fundamentalists groping in the dark ;)

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#24    conspiracy buff

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:33 PM

View PostRafterman, on 10 April 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

How then do you explain anxiety dreams?  Millions of people around the world in very different cultures have the same kinds of dreams.

Dreams are dreams, simply put.  Studies have been done that claim anxiety causes the same kind of dreams, although most of them are not 100% the same.  Similar is one thing, almost identical is quite another.  In the cases of NDEs, many more of the details are consistent with others whom have had the same experience.  This is in stark contrast to the "anxiety dreams" simply because of the number of people all independently verifying each other with no reason to make this up.  And as I pointed out before, there are elements of the NDEs that are simply unexplained.  Like deaf people hearing, blind people seeing, mutes talking, etc.  In anxiety dreams, you do not hear of these elements which sets it apart and seems to indicate that the NDEs are legit.  

Quote

Or for that matter, what about sleep paralysis?  Millions describe seeing the same types of entities in the room with them during SP episodes - old hags, demons, aliens, shadow figures, etc.

Again, sleep paralysis is comparable to anxiety dreams.  Both are basic human experiences that have been happening ever since science has established ways to study these things.  While there are some similar type of experience points, there aren't parts of it that cannot be explained away, scientifically speaking.  In my view, it's apples and oranges comparing sleep paralysis/anxiety dreams to NDEs.  More comprehensive studies have been done on the NDE topic usually with more questions remaining than answers for some elements of the overall phenomena.  In contrast, sleep paralysis and anxiety dreams have had many explanations and have pretty much been relegated to basic human reaction to different emotional expressions our bodies are prone to manifest.  I have seen no real evidence to debunk the NDE phenomena and explain it in terms to dismiss the happenings contained therein.  In my mind, that further lends credibility to the NDE subject than to any other comparable topic in the field.  It is for each individual person to judge the merit of these claims based on common sense and evidence.  To me, I've read and seen enough on this topic to make me believe it is indeed the real deal.

There is a grain of truth in every conspiracy known to man, you just have to be intelligent enough to find it.

#25    Artaxerxes

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:52 PM

When skeptics talk about NDEs they talk about it from such a very shallow perspective. They know so little about it and have obviously read very little about it. There are things about NDE's that go way beyond the tunnel and the light and feelings of euphoria and/or love.

They ignore or leave out the parts about feeling like you are literally everywhere in the Universe at once, overwhelming feelings of oneness and connectedness, 360 degree vision, time and space not existing, seeing colors you've never seen before, buildings that are "made out of knowledge," communicating telepathically, having "all knowledge", and during the life review experiencing your entire life in an instant, information being downloaded instantly like a "bolus of knowledge", feeling like you are the person you interacted with, feeling what they felt, hearing their thoughts of the people during your life review. The life review is a holographic experience par excellence.

These are all very "holographic" and quantum physics like things. I think the more colors than normal is because they are seeing the entire light spectrum instead of just a small part of it. The all knowledge, like being connected, is because you are literally a part of everything in the Universe - which is very "holographic."

I find all these things to be extremely evidential. For a housewife or a truck driver to make comments that seem to parallel or are congruent with things that I've read in books about the holographic universe or the quantum world is amazing to me because I highly doubt they have read Michael Talbot's or Dr. Fred Alan Wolf's books.

Art


#26    Artaxerxes

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:59 PM

Mindsight is a book by Dr. Ken Ring about the Near Death Experiences of blind people.  He personally talked to  a number of blind people who for the first time in their lives were able to see and report veridical facts about what they'd seen and experienced.  - Art

Mindsight: Near-Death and Out-of-Body Experiences in the Blind, Dr. Ken Ring

http://www.amazon.co...words=mindsight

Edited by Artaxerxes, 10 April 2013 - 05:59 PM.


#27    coolguy

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:55 AM

My friends sister said she had a NDE. She said she was looking down at her body in the or .she said she had an allergic rection to the dye they gave her when she was geting the balloon test for her heart and it caused her to die and she came back.


#28    conspiracy buff

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:40 PM

And for the benefit to those who may be skeptically inclined, there is another unexplained element of the NDEs; people report floating above their own bodies being clinically dead and describe what others[usually medical personnel working on them] say and do.  If this NDE phenomena were just a chemical reaction from the brain, how do you describe audible sounds or sights after the brain has shut down?  That does not make logical sense and violates all known physics laws in reguards to the human body and how it works.  Yet another element that seems to lend credibility to the NDE topic.

There is a grain of truth in every conspiracy known to man, you just have to be intelligent enough to find it.




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