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Peter Higgs: stop calling it the god particle


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#16    Emma_Acid

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:37 AM

View Postpitchp, on 09 April 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

scientists are funny people. Ever since the beginning, when religion was talking about other dimensions, the existence of god, parallel universes, and all these unbelievable things. Unfortunately religion back then didn't have any proof. So the atheist/scientists in those days didn't believe them. Thank god for all the scientists that has contributed most of their lives to gather data and facts to prove that our universe is exactly what those religions preached about. What a crazy world we live in. And still to this day even though we think that we are so far advance in society, we are still going on theories on what a black hole is. Also we still don't know what caused the big bang, why it banged, or to make it even worse... was there ever a bang? Scientists/atheists we need you to prove that this world is more creepier than we originally thought it was... in the beginning.

Why is it that the religious always some across as the most woefully educated about science and history?



View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 09 April 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

So what does Boson feel about it?

Not much. Satyendra Nath Bose died in 1974.

Science isn’t about truth and falsity, it’s about reducing uncertainty ~ Brian Nosek

#17    shrooma

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:58 PM

View PostRender, on 09 April 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:



It's irrelevant to this because the boson isn't only linked to the Higgs....sheesh. Trying to start a discussion about something pointless, very annoying.
.
it would seem that someone has broken into your house and stolen your sense of humour.
luckily for you, my local shop is doing a 'buy one, get one free' offer on them.
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i suggest you eat them both.

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#18    shrooma

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:06 PM

View PostEmma_Acid, on 19 April 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:



Why is it that the religious always some across as the most woefully educated about science and history?

.
and let's not forget humourless too......


"Get off your knees, the party's over."
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#19    Render

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:35 AM

Higgs boson: Call to rename particle to acknowledge other scientists

Quote

One of the scientists who helped develop the theory of the Higgs boson says the particle should be renamed.
Carl Hagen believes the name should acknowledge the work of others - not just UK physicist Peter Higgs.
The long-running debate has been rekindled following speculation that this year's Nobel Prize for Physics will be awarded for the Higgs theory.
The detection of a particle thought to be the Higgs was announced at the Large Hadron Collider in June last year.
American Prof Hagen told BBC News: "I have always thought that the name was not a proper one.

"To single out one individual marginalises the contribution of others involved in the work. Although I did not start this campaign to change the name, I welcome it."

People have spoken of key contributions being made by Francois Englert, Peter Higgs, Gerald Guralnik, Tom Kibble, Robert Brout and Carl Hagen. Five spoke at a press conference last year to announce the discovery of a particle thought to be the Higgs, but it was only Prof Higgs who received a huge round of applause from the researchers present.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-22250092


#20    Frank Merton

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:59 AM

Peter Higgs is a great scientist and a charming man.  That he gets this honor is fine with me.  That there are others involved is always the case.


#21    Render

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:04 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 23 April 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Peter Higgs is a great scientist and a charming man.  That he gets this honor is fine with me.  That there are others involved is always the case.

But Higgs wasn't the only discoverer. That's the whole point. He discovered it in parallel with Brout and Englert .. then 3 others get involved and contributed further. But a lazy journalist only used one name in an article, Higgs...So now everyone ingorantly calls it the Higgs like he's the only one who came with it and built on this theory. It's disrespectful to keep singling him out and ignoring all the others.  How would you feel?


#22    Frank Merton

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:41 PM

Was Einstein the only discoverer of relativity, Darwin the only discoverer of evolution, Feynman the only discoverer of Feynman diagrams?  No one works in a vacuum, and this is getting to be less and less the case.

You ask how I would feel?  What sort of question is that?  I would be happy for him.  Envy is what I am hearing, and it isn't appropriate in science.

Edited by Frank Merton, 23 April 2013 - 12:42 PM.


#23    Render

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:11 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 23 April 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Was Einstein the only discoverer of relativity, Darwin the only discoverer of evolution, Feynman the only discoverer of Feynman diagrams?  No one works in a vacuum, and this is getting to be less and less the case.

You ask how I would feel?  What sort of question is that?  I would be happy for him.  Envy is what I am hearing, and it isn't appropriate in science.

Maybe im not explaining this right ...

Okay, suppose you discovered a planet where life is present... and around the same time someone in different place discoveres the exact same planet . Then some jerk journalist doesn't even mention you, and hails the other person as the most brilliant mind of this century. And then, even though you did the exact same thing, you get no recognition from because no one knows you or receives you as credible, because you weren't "the discoverer".

They're not even asking to have their names mentioned, that's not envy .. that's validated entitled recognition. They're asking for a non-person name reference. So no one gets excluded. That's just the right thing to do. Giving all the credit to one guy and calling everything after his name alone is just stupid and again, disrespectful.

All your examples are invalid because it is not about contributing, it's about doing the exact same thing just at another place and getting ignored.


#24    Frank Merton

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:39 PM

I assume there will be awards aplenty handed out for this, not just to Higgs.  It's just that a simple name is needed, this one has stuck, it is vastly better than "god particle," and the man is worthy.  Lots and lots of things are named after just one individual, and there may be some unfairness involved, but words and names stick.  After all, we don't call "America" something like "Columbia," and from what I know about Christopher as a person, it is just as well.


#25    sepulchrave

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:59 PM

In the original papers,  Englert and Brout describe how the gauge vector bosons in a system with broken symmetry do not necessarily have to be massless, while Peter Higgs identifies a specific symmetry-breaking mechanism that will lead to two massive scalar gauge bosons (in addition to some vector gauge bosons).

The ``Higgs particle'' is a massive scalar boson; I do not think it is unfair to attribute this particle to Higgs alone. Englert and Brout came very close, but did not explicitly identify the particle in their paper; Higgs did.

If a Nobel prize for the entire theory is awarded only to Higgs, and not Englert and Brout, then it is fair to cry fowl.


#26    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 06:47 AM

View PostRender, on 23 April 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

But Higgs wasn't the only discoverer. That's the whole point. He discovered it in parallel with Brout and Englert .. then 3 others get involved and contributed further. But a lazy journalist only used one name in an article, Higgs...So now everyone ingorantly calls it the Higgs like he's the only one who came with it and built on this theory. It's disrespectful to keep singling him out and ignoring all the others. How would you feel?
yes, but Higgs Boson is one thing, Higgs Brout Englert Boson is surely quite another. It sounds like a firm of lawyers, or an advertising agency.

Edited by Colonel Rhuairidh, 27 April 2013 - 06:47 AM.

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#27    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 06:54 AM

View PostRender, on 23 April 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Maybe im not explaining this right ...

Okay, suppose you discovered a planet where life is present... and around the same time someone in different place discoveres the exact same planet . Then some jerk journalist doesn't even mention you, and hails the other person as the most brilliant mind of this century. And then, even though you did the exact same thing, you get no recognition from because no one knows you or receives you as credible, because you weren't "the discoverer".

They're not even asking to have their names mentioned, that's not envy .. that's validated entitled recognition. They're asking for a non-person name reference. So no one gets excluded. That's just the right thing to do. Giving all the credit to one guy and calling everything after his name alone is just stupid and again, disrespectful.

All your examples are invalid because it is not about contributing, it's about doing the exact same thing just at another place and getting ignored.
That's happened all through history; Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace, Frank Whittle and Hans von Ohain with the jet engine, and I think there was someone else who devised a telephone at exactly the same time as Alexander Graham bell. It's always tough luck. but there's always someone who gets all the fame, while others who may have helped them, or may have worked completely independently at the same time, is forgotten.

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#28    libstaK

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:11 AM

Well now that it has been proven to exist "God Particle" does seem a bit inappropriate doesn't it :whistle:

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#29    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 02:55 PM

View Postsepulchrave, on 24 April 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

In the original papers,  Englert and Brout describe how the gauge vector bosons in a system with broken symmetry do not necessarily have to be massless, while Peter Higgs identifies a specific symmetry-breaking mechanism that will lead to two massive scalar gauge bosons (in addition to some vector gauge bosons).

The ``Higgs particle'' is a massive scalar boson; I do not think it is unfair to attribute this particle to Higgs alone. Englert and Brout came very close, but did not explicitly identify the particle in their paper; Higgs did.

If a Nobel prize for the entire theory is awarded only to Higgs, and not Englert and Brout, then it is fair to cry fowl.

Please don't ever stop posting here. :tu:





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