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Christians and oppression


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#46    truthseekerforall

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:01 AM

My opinion is that we are all connected. We seem to live in this world so divided and seperated by the division of religion, country and race.

Though some would argue with the fact that this has nothing to do with religion or country I beg to differ as I believe we as beings seriously have to lay down

these segregative differences and realize that there should have never been all these seperated ways of  thinking. All the prophets are but ONE and GOd is One for all,

There is no Religion better than the other or No Religion that is going to get you to HEAVEN and the Other Get you to HEll.

It is all designed to keep makind apart unfortunately. We need to understand the reality around us and it's simple......( YOU) the way you live your life, the way you treat others and every living creatures great or small in this WOMB called EARTH, the way you embrace eachother with NO PREJUDICE and I mean irradicating all the negative way of thinking about another because the colour of their skin, to acknowledge you are not the only exsisting life form in this world and UNIVERSE, to awaken to the fact that everything around is is ENERGY and We give of as beings ALOT OF hot air! or negative energy.

Money has always been the driving force in this whole unfortunate SCAM!, I say scam because I look around me and I see way too much hunger, way too much desperation and sorrow, way too much negligence and seperation , way too much hatred and LIES!!!!

Our Purpose is simple: CHANGE, it might sound funny! yes indeed, it might sound ridiculous but we need to recondiotion our minds and CHANGE our way of thinking.

The question is WHY CHANGE? well the answere is simple too, If we don't change we leave nothing but pain for our future generation to come. We simply leave an EARTH with so much curroption. LIES and falsehood that we might as well pack up and call it a day!

Our food is being infiltrated, our minds and body has been manipulated We are sitting ducks! but when you awaken the mind and realize the mind has been misinformed for so long that you are afraid to investigate for fear of what you might find then you are on a very special Journey my friends.
it is not too late for change is about to come and it is the change of YOU, you are the change you are important you are special and you were chosen to experience this journey for a bigger reason than you know.


#47    Doug1o29

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 06:58 PM

View Posttapirmusic, on 11 April 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

native americans?  what on earth are you talking about?  There was never a holy war declared on native american by christians.

gay rights?  Nowhere on earth are gays being murdered by christians just for being gay.
Now in muslim countries that is a different story.
In America the eradication (and that's not an exaggeration) of native people was never "declared."  It was a continuing 273-year enterprise starting with King Josephs' War and ending with the killing of teenagers at Wounded Knee.  The first English settlers considered their Indian neighbors to be "children of the devil."  While the war was not a "religious" war, religion played a huge part.

In one sense, the extermination of American Indians was pre-ordained by culture, biology and technology.  Biology came in to play in the form of the unwitting introduction of diseases to which the Indians had no immunity.  Perhaps 90% of the pre-Columbian population was wiped out without ever seeing a white man.

Culture came into play when the Norse settlers on Greenland invited their Eskimo neighbors over for dinner and fed them milk-based products.  Milk was not part of Eskimo culture or biology.  It made them sick; religion followed up on that when the Eskimos thought they had been the victims of a curse and attacked the Norse.

Culture also came into play in the form of two very different attitudes toward war.  In most Indian cultures, tribe and clan are extremely important.  A person who was outcast from his tribe or clan was worthless and could be attacked and killed for his property, or on a whim.  Settlers living alone on the frontier were often the victims of this misunderstanding, provoking white backlash - not against the perpetrators, but against the tribe as a whole - or even against other tribes.

Indians made war to punish a transgression, something like vendetta.  If your people were harmed, you had the right to do the same to the people who harmed you.  Your right to wage war did not extend to other clans and did not include wanton destruction.  Whites, on the other hand, made war to destroy the enemy's ability to make war.  Hence, the slaughter of the buffalo and the killing of horses - what did they have against the horses?  Starving an enemy into submission was an unheard of tactic in Indian culture and would have been a crime against humanity.

And, toward the end, whites had a huge superiority in numbers.  The Peace Chieves of the Five Civilized Tribes traveled to Washington at the invitation of the government.  On the way they saw more whitemen than they ever imagined existed.  When they returned west, they were the leaders in trying to achieve peaceful coexistence and, in some cases, the reason some of these tribes still exist.

And then there's firearms.  Usually, it was the whites with the better weapons - and that was a deciding factor in many battles - but not at Little Bighorn.  There the Indians were better armed and had more warriors.  With the expected result.

And all this started because of what was basically, supersticion - on both sides.


To address the gay issue:  killings of gays have definitely dropped off of late, but you are forgetting Matthew Sheppard whose killers tied him to a fence with barbed wire while they beat him to death.  And then there is the Westboro Baptist Church whose actions stop just short of calling for murder of gays.  They are the textbook example of Christian hate groups.  Less than a decade ago, news reports of gay-bashing and gay murders were an almost nightly event.


I have seen a few individual Christians who live exemplary lives and seek to express that love in the world.  But they are, sadly, a tiny minority in a crowd that rarely actually reads the Bible and never thinks for itself.


If you think Christians don't oppress others, tell one you're an atheist.  Believe that Christians have given up oppression when you see an atheist in the White House.
Doug

Edited by Doug1o29, 13 April 2013 - 07:02 PM.

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#48    No Censorship

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 03:18 AM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 13 April 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

Then I guess Spanish Inquisition was a thing of fiction? :whistle:

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#49    White Crane Feather

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 03:36 AM

View PostDoug1o29, on 13 April 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:


In America the eradication (and that's not an exaggeration) of native people was never "declared."  It was a continuing 273-year enterprise starting with King Josephs' War and ending with the killing of teenagers at Wounded Knee.  The first English settlers considered their Indian neighbors to be "children of the devil."  While the war was not a "religious" war, religion played a huge part.

In one sense, the extermination of American Indians was pre-ordained by culture, biology and technology.  Biology came in to play in the form of the unwitting introduction of diseases to which the Indians had no immunity.  Perhaps 90% of the pre-Columbian population was wiped out without ever seeing a white man.

Culture came into play when the Norse settlers on Greenland invited their Eskimo neighbors over for dinner and fed them milk-based products.  Milk was not part of Eskimo culture or biology.  It made them sick; religion followed up on that when the Eskimos thought they had been the victims of a curse and attacked the Norse.

Culture also came into play in the form of two very different attitudes toward war.  In most Indian cultures, tribe and clan are extremely important.  A person who was outcast from his tribe or clan was worthless and could be attacked and killed for his property, or on a whim.  Settlers living alone on the frontier were often the victims of this misunderstanding, provoking white backlash - not against the perpetrators, but against the tribe as a whole - or even against other tribes.

Indians made war to punish a transgression, something like vendetta.  If your people were harmed, you had the right to do the same to the people who harmed you.  Your right to wage war did not extend to other clans and did not include wanton destruction.  Whites, on the other hand, made war to destroy the enemy's ability to make war.  Hence, the slaughter of the buffalo and the killing of horses - what did they have against the horses?  Starving an enemy into submission was an unheard of tactic in Indian culture and would have been a crime against humanity.

And, toward the end, whites had a huge superiority in numbers.  The Peace Chieves of the Five Civilized Tribes traveled to Washington at the invitation of the government.  On the way they saw more whitemen than they ever imagined existed.  When they returned west, they were the leaders in trying to achieve peaceful coexistence and, in some cases, the reason some of these tribes still exist.

And then there's firearms.  Usually, it was the whites with the better weapons - and that was a deciding factor in many battles - but not at Little Bighorn.  There the Indians were better armed and had more warriors.  With the expected result.

And all this started because of what was basically, supersticion - on both sides.


To address the gay issue:  killings of gays have definitely dropped off of late, but you are forgetting Matthew Sheppard whose killers tied him to a fence with barbed wire while they beat him to death.  And then there is the Westboro Baptist Church whose actions stop just short of calling for murder of gays.  They are the textbook example of Christian hate groups.  Less than a decade ago, news reports of gay-bashing and gay murders were an almost nightly event.


I have seen a few individual Christians who live exemplary lives and seek to express that love in the world.  But they are, sadly, a tiny minority in a crowd that rarely actually reads the Bible and never thinks for itself.


If you think Christians don't oppress others, tell one you're an atheist.  Believe that Christians have given up oppression when you see an atheist in the White House.
Doug
Wow. Nicely done.

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#50    SpiritWriter

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 04:27 AM

View Posttruthseekerforall, on 13 April 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

My opinion is that we are all connected. We seem to live in this world so divided and seperated by the division of religion, country and race.

Though some would argue with the fact that this has nothing to do with religion or country I beg to differ as I believe we as beings seriously have to lay down

these segregative differences and realize that there should have never been all these seperated ways of  thinking. All the prophets are but ONE and GOd is One for all,

There is no Religion better than the other or No Religion that is going to get you to HEAVEN and the Other Get you to HEll.

It is all designed to keep makind apart unfortunately. We need to understand the reality around us and it's simple......( YOU) the way you live your life, the way you treat others and every living creatures great or small in this WOMB called EARTH, the way you embrace eachother with NO PREJUDICE and I mean irradicating all the negative way of thinking about another because the colour of their skin, to acknowledge you are not the only exsisting life form in this world and UNIVERSE, to awaken to the fact that everything around is is ENERGY and We give of as beings ALOT OF hot air! or negative energy.

Money has always been the driving force in this whole unfortunate SCAM!, I say scam because I look around me and I see way too much hunger, way too much desperation and sorrow, way too much negligence and seperation , way too much hatred and LIES!!!!

Our Purpose is simple: CHANGE, it might sound funny! yes indeed, it might sound ridiculous but we need to recondiotion our minds and CHANGE our way of thinking.

The question is WHY CHANGE? well the answere is simple too, If we don't change we leave nothing but pain for our future generation to come. We simply leave an EARTH with so much curroption. LIES and falsehood that we might as well pack up and call it a day!

Our food is being infiltrated, our minds and body has been manipulated We are sitting ducks! but when you awaken the mind and realize the mind has been misinformed for so long that you are afraid to investigate for fear of what you might find then you are on a very special Journey my friends.
it is not too late for change is about to come and it is the change of YOU, you are the change you are important you are special and you were chosen to experience this journey for a bigger reason than you know.
I wanted to like this fifteen times but it wouldnt let me.... this might be my favorite statement read so far


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Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#51    Setton

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 03:55 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 13 April 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

I have seen a few individual Christians who live exemplary lives and seek to express that love in the world.  But they are, sadly, a tiny minority in a crowd that rarely actually reads the Bible and never thinks for itself.


If you think Christians don't oppress others, tell one you're an atheist.  Believe that Christians have given up oppression when you see an atheist in the White House.
Doug

I agree with the vast majority of your post but the part in bold is simply wrong. The Christians who try to live as you say are not a tiny minority; they are not a minority at all. What you have said describes almost all Christians around the world. The trouble is, 'Christian lets people get on with their lives as they want' isn't as good a story as 'Christian advocates extermination of atheists' (or some such). Now, that's not to say there aren't Christians who use the name without following the teachings (your example of the westboro baptist church springs to mind) but they are few and far between.

A lot of people you meet will be Christian without you ever knowing it. Simply because they don't feel the need to ram it down people's throats.

I do understand that the Christian/non-Christian relationship in America is rather more tense than in the rest of the world but you have to remember, it's only one country and only 11% of the world's Christians. Please don't tar everyone with the same brush.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#52    Doug1o29

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 04:24 PM

View PostSetton, on 15 April 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

I agree with the vast majority of your post but the part in bold is simply wrong. The Christians who try to live as you say are not a tiny minority; they are not a minority at all. What you have said describes almost all Christians around the world. The trouble is, 'Christian lets people get on with their lives as they want' isn't as good a story as 'Christian advocates extermination of atheists' (or some such). Now, that's not to say there aren't Christians who use the name without following the teachings (your example of the westboro baptist church springs to mind) but they are few and far between.

A lot of people you meet will be Christian without you ever knowing it. Simply because they don't feel the need to ram it down people's throats.

I do understand that the Christian/non-Christian relationship in America is rather more tense than in the rest of the world but you have to remember, it's only one country and only 11% of the world's Christians. Please don't tar everyone with the same brush.
My father was a Christian - a deacon and everything.  He went to a church convention.  When he came home, he told me that the major subject of discussion was how to get people to give more so the preachers could get bigger retirements and/or build bigger buildings.  He specifically noted two exceptions out of about 100 speakers who tried to get the church to do more of God's work - things like feeding the hungry and running a drug rehabilitation center.  It wasn't long before he left the church.

That bit about telling a Christian you're an atheist - that's my personal experience.  I visited the Baptist Convention Center in Glorietta, New Mexico.  I wondered how they would go about converting someone who didn't believe as they did, so I pretended to be an atheist - big mistake.  The reaction was immediate and visceral - I felt my physical well-being, if not my life, was in serious jeopardy.  I quickly told them what I was doing, then got out of there as soon as I could.

I once stood outside the Christian church in Whitebird, Idaho trying to hitch a ride north.  The entire congregation drove out the drive and past me without anybody even slowing down - guess they don't talk about the Good Samaritan at the church.

I once dealt with a trespass case involving a church.  The church members had been camping out in the church yard, without realizing that they didn't own the land - the land was owned by the next-door neighbor.  But when the neighbor started driving across one corner of the church lot to access his land, they had HIM arrested for trespassing.  A fence went up shortly thereafter and the neighbor put in a drive from the other side of the property - and put a log deck on the spot where church members had been camping.  What goes around comes around.

Numerous surveys show that there is no difference in religious belief as far as incarceration rates, divorce rates, criminal convictions, etc. go.  With two exceptions:  Quakers (both liberal and conservative branches) and atheists.  Both tend to have lower rates of criminal convictions, drug addictions, etc.  Quakers have more convictions in one specific type of case:  during the Vietnam War they had a far higher rate of convictions for draft-resistance and civil protest than other groups.  They still tend to be slightly higher than others in terms of civil protest arrests.

Those who actually try to practice Jesus' teachings often end up in jail for it.  So if you're really a Christian, why aren't you n jail?
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#53    Setton

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 05:36 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 15 April 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

My father was a Christian - a deacon and everything.  He went to a church convention.  When he came home, he told me that the major subject of discussion was how to get people to give more so the preachers could get bigger retirements and/or build bigger buildings.  He specifically noted two exceptions out of about 100 speakers who tried to get the church to do more of God's work - things like feeding the hungry and running a drug rehabilitation center.  It wasn't long before he left the church.

That bit about telling a Christian you're an atheist - that's my personal experience.  I visited the Baptist Convention Center in Glorietta, New Mexico.  I wondered how they would go about converting someone who didn't believe as they did, so I pretended to be an atheist - big mistake.  The reaction was immediate and visceral - I felt my physical well-being, if not my life, was in serious jeopardy.  I quickly told them what I was doing, then got out of there as soon as I could.

I once stood outside the Christian church in Whitebird, Idaho trying to hitch a ride north.  The entire congregation drove out the drive and past me without anybody even slowing down - guess they don't talk about the Good Samaritan at the church.

I once dealt with a trespass case involving a church.  The church members had been camping out in the church yard, without realizing that they didn't own the land - the land was owned by the next-door neighbor.  But when the neighbor started driving across one corner of the church lot to access his land, they had HIM arrested for trespassing.  A fence went up shortly thereafter and the neighbor put in a drive from the other side of the property - and put a log deck on the spot where church members had been camping.  What goes around comes around.

Numerous surveys show that there is no difference in religious belief as far as incarceration rates, divorce rates, criminal convictions, etc. go.  With two exceptions:  Quakers (both liberal and conservative branches) and atheists.  Both tend to have lower rates of criminal convictions, drug addictions, etc.  Quakers have more convictions in one specific type of case:  during the Vietnam War they had a far higher rate of convictions for draft-resistance and civil protest than other groups.  They still tend to be slightly higher than others in terms of civil protest arrests.

Those who actually try to practice Jesus' teachings often end up in jail for it.  So if you're really a Christian, why aren't you n jail?
Doug

As I said, different in America. However important America is in the world, it's still just one country. Perhaps you should try meeting Christians from elsewhere in the world? I'll admit I don't know many American Christians so it's possible we're coming at this from two opposite ends of the spectrum.

In my experience, Americans as a whole take the rather abrasive, 'I am right, you are wrong' attitude so perhaps this is why Christians have such a bad image there; they act like everyone else but about religion. And there are more of them than anyone else there.

I hadn't come across those conviction stats before. If you have a source (as you usually do), I'd be interested in reading it.

Leaving aside your assumption that I am a Christian, how would loving your neighbour as yourself and having no other Gods land you in jail?

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#54    Doug1o29

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:58 PM

View PostSetton, on 15 April 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

I'll admit I don't know many American Christians so it's possible we're coming at this from two opposite ends of the spectrum.
We very likely are viewing this from two different perspectives.

Quote

In my experience, Americans as a whole take the rather abrasive, 'I am right, you are wrong' attitude so perhaps this is why Christians have such a bad image there; they act like everyone else but about religion. And there are more of them than anyone else there.
I think you're right about this.

Quote

I hadn't come across those conviction stats before. If you have a source (as you usually do), I'd be interested in reading it.
I don't have the source off the top of my head; I'll have to get back to you on it.

Quote

Leaving aside your assumption that I am a Christian, how would loving your neighbour as yourself and having no other Gods land you in jail?
If one really believed that "Thou shalt not kill" meant "Thou shalt not kill," you couldn't participate in war.  You not only couldn't kill anyone, but you couldn't help kill anyone.  That, by itself, would have got you two years in the Federal pen during the Vietnam War.  But that would also mean you couldn't pay taxes because that would be paying for bullets and such.  And that will get you some time, not to mention expense, right now.

Then there' campaigning/demonstrating for legal and social change.  Then there's outright breaking the unjust laws - like the Jim Crow laws.  And in some states, there is still extensive and legal discrimination against gays, etc.  A Christian supports justice (I've been told.) and there's an awful lot of injustice that needs to change.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#55    Setton

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:18 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 15 April 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

I don't have the source off the top of my head; I'll have to get back to you on it.

No worries. Just me trying to procrastinate from exams :P

Quote

If one really believed that "Thou shalt not kill" meant "Thou shalt not kill," you couldn't participate in war.  You not only couldn't kill anyone, but you couldn't help kill anyone.  That, by itself, would have got you two years in the Federal pen during the Vietnam War.  But that would also mean you couldn't pay taxes because that would be paying for bullets and such.  And that will get you some time, not to mention expense, right now.

Hadn't thought of it in terms of taxes paying for wars. It's a very good point.

Quote

Then there' campaigning/demonstrating for legal and social change.  Then there's outright breaking the unjust laws - like the Jim Crow laws.  And in some states, there is still extensive and legal discrimination against gays, etc.  A Christian supports justice (I've been told.) and there's an awful lot of injustice that needs to change.
Doug

To be honest, I didn't realise how bad it is in America. If even half of what you've said here was true, I agree it needs to change.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#56    Doug1o29

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:24 PM

View PostSetton, on 15 April 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

To be honest, I didn't realise how bad it is in America. If even half of what you've said here was true, I agree it needs to change.
The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.  And we have been asleep for several decades.

The current dysfunction can largely be laid at the feet of the House of Representatives and the Tea Party.

But America isn't alone:  there's injustice and oppression in every country.  If you aren't finding a problem to work on, it's because you're not looking.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#57    Setton

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:29 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 16 April 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

But America isn't alone:  there's injustice and oppression in every country.  If you aren't finding a problem to work on, it's because you're not looking.
Doug

Very true.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#58    IamsSon

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:17 PM

Anyone who believes there was no religious oppression going on before Christians showed up is amazingly deluded.  Oppression has been part of human history as far back as we can see.  As long as we keep placing the blame on a belief or set of beliefs we will continue to suffer the consequences because we will be failing to deal with the actual problem:  humankind's inherent self-interest.

The belief, be it Sunni, Shia, Orthodox, Reformed, Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Wiccan, animism, atheism, whatever-ism, is just a cover used to keep the vast majority of people--who really just want to be left alone to begin with and resent having to be involved in anything that does not immediately concern them--appeased and confused and blissfully uninvolved.  If the majority of people are Sunni, then Sunni "beliefs" (even if they have to be wildly mangled and taken wholly out of context) are used to justify the oppression.  If the majority are Christian, then assuredly those seeking to oppress will use "Christian" beliefs, again even if they have to be completely taken out of context, to justify their actions.

Until and unless all of us, Christian, pagan, atheist, Satanist, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., acknowledge that it is self-interest and not a religious belief which causes oppression, we will continue to deal with oppression, maybe not by Christians this year, but maybe by Islamists, or who knows, maybe the Norse religions willl get another go at it.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#59    libstaK

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 10:08 PM

View PostIamsSon, on 16 April 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Anyone who believes there was no religious oppression going on before Christians showed up is amazingly deluded.  Oppression has been part of human history as far back as we can see.  As long as we keep placing the blame on a belief or set of beliefs we will continue to suffer the consequences because we will be failing to deal with the actual problem:  humankind's inherent self-interest.

The belief, be it Sunni, Shia, Orthodox, Reformed, Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Wiccan, animism, atheism, whatever-ism, is just a cover used to keep the vast majority of people--who really just want to be left alone to begin with and resent having to be involved in anything that does not immediately concern them--appeased and confused and blissfully uninvolved.  If the majority of people are Sunni, then Sunni "beliefs" (even if they have to be wildly mangled and taken wholly out of context) are used to justify the oppression.  If the majority are Christian, then assuredly those seeking to oppress will use "Christian" beliefs, again even if they have to be completely taken out of context, to justify their actions.

Until and unless all of us, Christian, pagan, atheist, Satanist, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., acknowledge that it is self-interest and not a religious belief which causes oppression, we will continue to deal with oppression, maybe not by Christians this year, but maybe by Islamists, or who knows, maybe the Norse religions willl get another go at it.
Basically, people who wish to oppress or bully others will hang their hats on a belief system that provides them the opportunity to do so.  It can be anything as long as they get to be right and someone else wrong enough to be justifiably harmed by them (aka: a good excuse that lets them get away with it).

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

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#60    Michelle

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 10:25 PM

View PostSetton, on 15 April 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

To be honest, I didn't realise how bad it is in America. If even half of what you've said here was true, I agree it needs to change.

I can only assume it is bad somewhere in the vast expanse of the US, according to some people's experiences. As you can see, I live in the Bible Belt and I haven't personally experienced any of what people claim is the truth about the US in general.

As we all know, politicians and what hits the news are not atypical.





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