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Syrian Rebels Swear Fealty to AlQeada


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#46    and then

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 08:30 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 15 April 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

Look to the primary economic interest of America and look at what it motivates the Government to do. The primary economic interest of America is Oil and the Arabs are sitting on the largest oil reserves in the world. Its far easier to extract resources from a destabilized country (to a point) than from a strong willed independent country.
Look at the example of Iraq, which went rouge and Libya which wanted to start selling its oil in gold.

It is a documented fact that Osama Bin Ladin was a CIA agent who was used to destabilize the Russian backed Afghanistan and that the organization he set up never ceased to exist in the form it was originally set up (the name refers to a database of insurgent agents which could be called on to do the bidding of the CIA). Al Quida has continued to be used in insurgency work across the middle east. However the name has been turned into a potent boggy man for the domestic US market, and it is now easy to declare any terrorist group Al-Quida to raise the public bile. Ask yourself why Al-Quida has never operated within Palestine, the most potent symbol of American Imperialism.

The obvious explanation is rarely the correct one.

Br Cornelius
Your supposition might be reasonable IF the US were obtaining the oil at some discount or for free.  NO such thing is happening.  Fair market is being paid for those resources everyone loves to say we are stealing, raping, etc.  And as to the Bin Laden connection, the CIA was tasked with returning the Vietnam favor to the Russians in Afghanistan.  I present you Hanlon's Razor where the CIA is concerned.  The US government is too darned inept to be so wily as you claim.  They simply discarded a tool without cleaning up the potential mess and they also failed to account for religious extremism.

View Postacidhead, on 15 April 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:


It doesn't unless you're a gullible fool.  Take a bow bro.
Apparently you think it's funny to laugh at people here AH.  It doesn't make you cool or smart or even witty.  Just rude.  The one thing I've learned is certain in life is that when someone feels they have all the answers - avoid them.  Have a nice day

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#47    Br Cornelius

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:13 AM

America want's the right to control where the oil flows, it also wants its companies to be extracting it. If its companies are extracting it then no matter what the price - it still wins. What it doesn't want to see is foreign state owned oil companies profiting from a rising market where it has no share of the profits.

There is fairly strong evidence that the CIA have been both supporting the trade in drugs from across the world, at the same time as fighting the war on drugs. Its a simple rerun of the British Opium wars but this time the objective seems to be to open up access to foreign resources (same as the British Opium wars) but also to depress the civil rights movement of the domestic black population. Remember Oli North admitted that this what they were doing in the Iran- Contra affair over three decades ago.

http://en.wikipedia....cking_in_the_US

An organization which would facilitate the flooding of domestic inner cities with drugs cannot be trusted to have the best interests of the world at heart.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 15 April 2013 - 09:36 AM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#48    and then

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:38 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 15 April 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

America want's the right to control where the oil flows, it also wants its companies to be extracting it. If its companies are extracting it then no matter what the price - it still wins. What it doesn't want to see is foreign state owned oil companies profiting from a rising market where it has no share of the profits.

There is fairly strong evidence that the CIA have been both supporting the trade in drugs from across the world, at the same time as fighting the war on drugs. Its a simple rerun of the British Opium wars but this time the objective seems to be to open up access to foreign resources (same as the British Opium wars) but also to depress the civil rights movement of the domestic black population. Remember Oli North admitted that this what they were doing in the Iran- Contra affair over three decades ago.

http://en.wikipedia....cking_in_the_US

An organization which would facilitate the flooding of domestic inner cities with drugs cannot be trusted to have the best interests of the world at heart.

Br Cornelius
You know, Brutha, I really hope you are wrong about my country.  Because if you are correct then there isn't much chance of a bright future any time soon.  It's easy enough to single out the wrong in any place and to decry it but when looking at human institutions it's also necessary to look at the whole picture.  I ask you sincerely, with all the faults you find with the USA, do you really think that any other nation on this planet today - if given as much power and influence - could be trusted to act as or more sanely and altruistically?  When you condemn America you are condemning the greatest experiment of freedom the world has ever known and, I think, indicting the weakness of mankind in general.  Being a detractor, even a hater of America, does no good to the world.  It only invites some other power to hold sway.  I guess I would say you should be careful what you wish  for.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#49    Br Cornelius

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:53 AM

I think America has drifted into been a quasi-Fascistic state (think Italy). I think any country which seeks to have as much power as America will make far to many compromises along the way to achieve it. Freedom can only be considered rhetoric unless it is equally extended to all peoples who are influenced by those seek impose it.
Americas history of supporting dictators is to damning to conclude that they are after anything other than access to resources and complient vassel states. It was not freedom that the Americans were weeking when they funded the murder of 100,000 citizens of South American citizens across South America, neither was it freedom for the millions killed in Iraq and Vietnam - it was open access to the resources at preferential terms.
It is a world empire into perpetuity which the USA seeks.

Any country with those ambitions cannot be trusted to respect the rights and freedoms of those who stand against it.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson

#50    and then

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 02:34 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 15 April 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

I think America has drifted into been a quasi-Fascistic state (think Italy). I think any country which seeks to have as much power as America will make far to many compromises along the way to achieve it. Freedom can only be considered rhetoric unless it is equally extended to all peoples who are influenced by those seek impose it.
Americas history of supporting dictators is to damning to conclude that they are after anything other than access to resources and complient vassel states. It was not freedom that the Americans were weeking when they funded the murder of 100,000 citizens of South American citizens across South America, neither was it freedom for the millions killed in Iraq and Vietnam - it was open access to the resources at preferential terms.
It is a world empire into perpetuity which the USA seeks.

Any country with those ambitions cannot be trusted to respect the rights and freedoms of those who stand against it.

Br Cornelius
Well according to my faith (which you seem to find an embarrassment for me:) )  The EU is the next super power that will be taking the world stage.  If you're a young man you will see it in your lifetime - then you can compare the two.  Maybe you will see that the failings of America are just the failings of human frailty writ large.  Hopefully the EU will do a job more to your pleasure.

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  for what could be, the darkest age...

#51    Br Cornelius

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 07:43 PM

View Postand then, on 15 April 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

Well according to my faith (which you seem to find an embarrassment for me:) )  The EU is the next super power that will be taking the world stage.  If you're a young man you will see it in your lifetime - then you can compare the two.  Maybe you will see that the failings of America are just the failings of human frailty writ large.  Hopefully the EU will do a job more to your pleasure.
Who know's how that will pan out. The EU has however proceeded so by consent rather than military intervention which places it ahead of the Americans.
However I very much doubt the EU will become the next superpower.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 08:33 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 15 April 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

Who know's how that will pan out. The EU has however proceeded so by consent rather than military intervention which places it ahead of the Americans.
However I very much doubt the EU will become the next superpower.

Br Cornelius
I agree that it's hard to imagine the EU as a super power but it certainly is pointed to in scripture.  The time of America's dominance is nearly over.  China would seem to be the next in line but that isn't scriptural so we'll wait and see.  My point has been that any entity when in possession of such power can become corrupted.

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#53    Br Cornelius

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:00 PM

The British Empire for all its pretensions to Civilizing the world was one of the most corrupt and bloody in history - the US just picked up the baton and ran with it.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson

#54    AsteroidX

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:01 PM

I think sometimes you confuse Gold with oil. These countries have been very wealthy in Gold prior to occupation by America. I dont know what its like now. I pay more for oil then I did before the Gulf War. So if its oil it certainly isnt trickling down.


#55    Br Cornelius

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:05 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 15 April 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

I think sometimes you confuse Gold with oil. These countries have been very wealthy in Gold prior to occupation by America. I dont know what its like now. I pay more for oil then I did before the Gulf War. So if its oil it certainly isnt trickling down.
That would be peak oil - which makes securing your supply doubly important.
Peak Oil has been known about since the 1970's, and one of the most telling wikileaks emails was a report back from Saudi where analysts were saying that the remaining reserves were at least half what the Saudi's claimed and that production was expected to fall off a cliff because of the sea water injection technique they were using.

This is why Fracking has been pushed so hard - despite it been ridiculously expensive to produce.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 15 April 2013 - 11:11 PM.

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Robert Anton Wilson

#56    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:11 PM

Its not so much about the physical oil, but the way the oil is sold. Oil is sold in USD and is the only thing keeping the USD from total collapse. Any country that tries to sell oil in other currencies is invaded and the status quo reinstated


#57    and then

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:42 AM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 15 April 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

Its not so much about the physical oil, but the way the oil is sold. Oil is sold in USD and is the only thing keeping the USD from total collapse. Any country that tries to sell oil in other currencies is invaded and the status quo reinstated
So it would be a good thing for the USD to collapse?  I'm not trying to bait you, just trying to understand.  I think it would finish the crash of the world economy, don't you?  Then what?  The Yuan, the Euro?  A transition is surely coming, but it cannot be instantaneous without a catastrophe ensuing.

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  for what could be, the darkest age...

#58    Black Red Devil

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 09:21 AM

View Postmeryt-tetisheri, on 11 April 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

In re the topic of the thread, according to an Egyptian newspaper, last week about a hundred anti-aircraft missiles were caught in Egypt. They were being smuggled in from Libya. God knows how many passed through undetected, where did they end up, in whose hands they might be, and to what objective they might be used.

The quid pro quo situation depends on so many assumptions that at the end it will be another house of cards which might look practical and ‘pretty’ in theory, but then, at best, can last for only a very short time. SA’s income from both oil and the Haj is huge. It does not need more money thrown at it by the West. What it seeks is its own (and its ideology’s) supremacy in the area; and of course the proverbial ‘head of Shiism on a silver plate’.  

What are the guarantees that the present regime there will last for the next 10 or 20 years, or that it will not be replaced by a more extreme, anti-west, or ‘puritan’ regime?  

Sorry Meryt for taking so long to respond.  Just got caught up with a few things.

Well in fact, the bolded part is more or less what I'm talking about. What's this partnership worth? Ideological supremacy and total control over the ME.  The West would have it's strongest ally in control and this ally is wrapped around its little finger.  
Hypothetically anticipating events, this ally could end up controlling the myriad of fanatical and radical little terror groups currently running around the ME.  Most of them with a death wish, Jihad against the Christian and Jewish infidels and although SA and the MB can be just as brutal in their Wahhabist beliefs, they are no danger to western interests.  In fact, when is the last time you heard anti Western or anti Jewish Rhetoric coming out of Riyadh and the likes?  
In the past 10 years there has been sporadic instances of terror activity but the Kingdom has gone to vast lengths in eliminating terror groups who would/could be detrimental to this partnership.


View Postmeryt-tetisheri, on 11 April 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:


What would happen if there are mass revolts in ME against the MB? Will the West bomb the people into extinction?  

The MB are not exactly known for keeping their pledges or allegiance if there is a chance of increasing their gains by turning against their allies. What if they decide to cut the middleman from the equation and directly control the oil wells (recently the Emirates arrested several MB members who were plotting to create sleeping cells there).  Would the West still believe that their interests are protected with a caliphate established by the mother organization of all terrorist groups? Again bomb the countries & crush civilians into dust?

As rulers, the MB are phenomenally incompetent, they managed to run Egypt to the ground in just 9 months, how deep are the West’s pockets because there will be several hundred million people in the area who will end up in extreme poverty?

Are there any guarantees that the tide of extremism will not reach the West, would an MB ultra-state shy from using it as leverage?


When I mentioned annihilate, I didn't mean the West would do so to defend the rise to power of the MB.  I just intended to highlight the fact that they have so much control over what is currently occurring in the ME that nothing and nobody are currently capable of contrasting this domination.

Iran is next. :yes:


View Postmeryt-tetisheri, on 11 April 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:


There are 10-15 million Copts in Egypt, almost 2 million (in the past) in Iraq,  2.5 in Syria, plus those in Lebanon and Jordan; if the West for the sake of oil regards them as a mere ‘nuisance’ which can be exterminated while the world whistles and shrugs, then the West also loses any claim on morality.

The MB, in all its variants, does not represent Islam. There are many decent moderate Muslims with whom the West can deal to protect its interests without causing unnecessary suffering to innocent people. As it is, it seems to me that now the ‘West’ is acting like a man holding a very powerful gun aimed at his foot and his finger is on the trigger!  


Couldn't agree more.

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#59    Black Red Devil

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:22 AM

View Postand then, on 15 April 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

Well according to my faith (which you seem to find an embarrassment for me:) )  The EU is the next super power that will be taking the world stage.  If you're a young man you will see it in your lifetime - then you can compare the two.  Maybe you will see that the failings of America are just the failings of human frailty writ large.  Hopefully the EU will do a job more to your pleasure.

View Postand then, on 15 April 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

Well according to my faith (which you seem to find an embarrassment for me:) )  The EU is the next super power that will be taking the world stage.  If you're a young man you will see it in your lifetime - then you can compare the two.  Maybe you will see that the failings of America are just the failings of human frailty writ large.  Hopefully the EU will do a job more to your pleasure.

I agree the EU will be the next superpower.

Also agree that an eventual fall of America is to be attributed to a general human weakness.  An empire using bullying methods to get their way, that got too greedy and thoughtless to the point they considered the rest of the world as their terrified neighbor's backyard.  A place where they could splurge and leave a mess without taking any responsibility to clean up.

Anyway, back to Syria.

We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell

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#60    and then

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:29 PM

View PostBlack Red Devil, on 16 April 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

I agree the EU will be the next superpower.

Also agree that an eventual fall of America is to be attributed to a general human weakness.  An empire using bullying methods to get their way, that got too greedy and thoughtless to the point they considered the rest of the world as their terrified neighbor's backyard.  A place where they could splurge and leave a mess without taking any responsibility to clean up.

Anyway, back to Syria.
But please, tell us how you really feel....
The point there was also that any other nation - including your own - would eventually act the same way.  Don't get the impression that I'm apologizing to you or anyone else here.  My countrymen are no worse than your's.  And a lot of that "splurging" (interesting you would say that) got shared around with the world along the way.  I wonder if other countries would have done so?  But no, America never did anything helpful for the world... nonsense...we only raped and pillaged.  Really?  Kind of an amusing outlook, in a sad, mean way.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...




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