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Who is this ?


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#16    third_eye

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:12 PM

View Postmonk 56, on 11 April 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Hi Third Eye,

I only explain about two celestial Objects in the sky, for Sirius to be in the middle of the sky on 1st January at midnight if you understand astronomy is at odds with science, i put forward that this is Sirius worship and intentional by Gregorian Calendar, put in place in 1582 in Rome please debate corruption in ancient philosphy regarding so called God Stars!

sorry .... I have no idea and I'm kinda  in a middle of something now ... maybe next time eh ? ol'boy?

View Postdannyboy52, on 11 April 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

First one looks like guy from ZZ Top, wearing a Scotland t shirt and a huge watch on his wrist, sorry best I can do.

ZZ Top - yes .... wrist watch - not so .... but then again I've seen it described as a 'time machine' :lol:

View PostMentalcase, on 11 April 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

They are from the same region, perhaps just depicted the same? It's been a while since I've seen these.

did you keep any links by any chance ? :yes:

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#17    TheSearcher

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:18 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 11 April 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

thanks ... How did you link Shamshi-Adad V to Ashurnasirpal II ?


from the British Museum site

That's the first time I've heard of Shamash ...
Maltese cross ?
Posted Image

I think this one is slightly different ... the cross on the chest and the 'garments'
can't zoom any so the symbols on the top left isn't clear to me ... looks slightly different too





Did get any sites that elaborated on the symbols in detail ?
I've been at this for weeks and I can't seem to get anywhere ....
Thanks for the finds ... :tu:


~edit : double post by pass

I remembered seeing the stela when I visited the British museum last time I was there (well a reproduction in any case) and that's why I recognized it for what it was.  The two images you use in your initial post depict two different Assyrian kings, but both were erected in temples and use the typical Assyrian gesture of respect and supplication towards the gods. That is why they are so very similar (nearly identical really) yet slightly different.

As to the assyrian iconography, sorry mate, what I know I know from books, I'm unaware of any websites about that particular subject. If anybody else has some, feel free...

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#18    monk 56

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:25 PM

Silly Third Eye,

I have given many links, i go through human history, i respect Harte we are respectful of each other, we may cross swords, but don't go into one, just because Harte made a comment, you are a gang mover on the back of who you think is valued to make a point!

I value Harte, i think he values me, i value what he has to say, but sorry Third Eye, you never give thesis to anything!  That is proven!


#19    third_eye

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:34 PM

View PostTheSearcher, on 11 April 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

I remembered seeing the stela when I visited the British museum last time I was there (well a reproduction in any case) and that's why I recognized it for what it was.  The two images you use in your initial post depict two different Assyrian kings, but both were erected in temples and use the typical Assyrian gesture of respect and supplication towards the gods. That is why they are so very similar (nearly identical really) yet slightly different.

As to the assyrian iconography, sorry mate, what I know I know from books, I'm unaware of any websites about that particular subject. If anybody else has some, feel free...

Good enough mate ... I got more today than I got anywhere for the past few days ... thanks a bunch
I got plenty to read up on and the names and dates ain't helping none ... seems the epoch isn't a money spinner like Ancient Egypt I guess



View Postmonk 56, on 11 April 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Silly Third Eye,

I have given many links, i go through human history, i respect Harte we are respectful of each other, we may cross swords, but don't go into one, just because Harte made a comment, you are a gang mover on the back of who you think is valued to make a point!

I value Harte, i think he values me, i value what he has to say, but sorry Third Eye, you never give thesis to anything!  That is proven!

Sure thing amigo ... whatever you say and tally ho !



~edit : this is getting to be a habit  :(

Edited by third_eye, 11 April 2013 - 03:34 PM.

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#20    monk 56

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:01 PM

Hi Third Eye,

By your own words, link below thread section #67

You make statements that you are ignorant of presenting thesis, this is a debate forum, Thesis is all important, don't expect Harte to come to your rescue ha ha!

http://www.unexplain...ic=245179&st=60

It takes a long time for you to have Street Cred after that!   Yes i do value HARTE we may be different ends of what we know the value of debate, thats Politics, idiot!

I like Harte, there is no substance to YOU in thesis!   I might be wrong, Harte may be wrong, we may cross swords but we both know the value in thesis!  Where's YOURS!

Edited by monk 56, 11 April 2013 - 04:02 PM.


#21    third_eye

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:09 PM

View Postmonk 56, on 11 April 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Hi Third Eye,

By your own words, link below thread section #67

You make statements that you are ignorant of presenting thesis, this is a debate forum, Thesis is all important, don't expect Harte to come to your rescue ha ha!

http://www.unexplain...ic=245179&st=60

It takes a long time for you to have Street Cred after that!   Yes i do value HARTE we may be different ends of what we know the value of debate, thats Politics, idiot!

I like Harte, there is no substance to YOU in thesis!   I might be wrong, Harte may be wrong, we may cross swords but we both know the value in thesis!  Where's YOURS!

View Postthird_eye, on 06 April 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

Frankly speaking monk 56 ... I have not the slightest idea ...

nope ... still not the slightest idea ... none at all

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#22    monk 56

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:26 PM

Hi Third Eye,

Note i respect Harte and Kmt sesh, i don't expect them to agree with me regarding ancient religions, we debate thats natural, but we both have thesis, you need instruction on thesis and how to bring forward in debate!    YOU HAVE NO THESIS AS YET!


#23    third_eye

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:33 PM

View Postmonk 56, on 11 April 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Hi Third Eye,

Note i respect Harte and Kmt sesh, i don't expect them to agree with me regarding ancient religions, we debate thats natural, but we both have thesis, you need instruction on thesis and how to bring forward in debate! YOU HAVE NO THESIS AS YET!

yes I know ... still not the slightest idea ... none at all

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#24    Harte

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:41 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 11 April 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Curious to me that the symbols between the pointing finger and the head on both is identical as far as I could tell.
Thanks for the point to :tu:

Speaking of those, I believe the "star" looking one is the Sun.  I'm not expert enough to ID the others.

Re Assyrian - the king was the king of Assyria.  The similarity of the two figures is the cue that the first one is an Assyrian work.

In these figures, you can't see the legs.  If you can see the legs, and the figure has huge, muscular calves, the figure is usually Assyrian.

Now you can glance at a figure and casually say "it appears to be Assyrian to me" (if those giant calves are there.) Makes you look like an expert.  But say nothing if the calves are skinny! LOL

Harte

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#25    third_eye

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:53 PM

View PostHarte, on 11 April 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Speaking of those, I believe the "star" looking one is the Sun.  I'm not expert enough to ID the others.

Re Assyrian - the king was the king of Assyria.  The similarity of the two figures is the cue that the first one is an Assyrian work.

In these figures, you can't see the legs.  If you can see the legs, and the figure has huge, muscular calves, the figure is usually Assyrian.

Now you can glance at a figure and casually say "it appears to be Assyrian to me" (if those giant calves are there.) Makes you look like an expert.  But say nothing if the calves are skinny! LOL

Harte


haven't found a more detailed verification but so far what I got is they are symbols for Ashur, Shamash, Sin, Adad and Ishtar ...
Ashur the sun/star is quite a sophisticated rendering in geometry but I can't make out what the other symbols are and I am curious and wondering if one of the symbols might be a pine cone:
Posted Image

this one is at the Vatican City :
Vatican Museum: giant pine cone
http://www.cambridge...PC1617681e.html

Muscular calves eh ? I remember those .... the ones with the 'fish' garb .... SOunds like foot fetishes started way back in cuneiform :lol:

thanks for the tip Mr Harte ... much appreciated


~edit : after thought

Edited by third_eye, 11 April 2013 - 05:09 PM.

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#26    Harte

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 05:17 PM

Along the top left of the pic, the third symbol up is the moon.  The last symbol appears to be a beehive, which I seem to remember has some meaning, but I can't remember and could be way off.

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#27    third_eye

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 06:09 PM

View PostHarte, on 11 April 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Along the top left of the pic, the third symbol up is the moon.  The last symbol appears to be a beehive, which I seem to remember has some meaning, but I can't remember and could be way off.

Harte

I haven't got a chance to put it all together proper but from wiki it seems there isn't much of an agreement about who represents what :

Quote

Both in early and in late inscriptions Shamash is designated as the "offspring of Nannar"; i.e. of the moon-god, and since, in an enumeration of the pantheon, Sin generally takes precedence of Shamash, it is in relationship, presumably, to the moon-god that the sun-god appears as the dependent power. Such a supposition would accord with the prominence acquired by the moon in the calendar and in astrological calculations, as well as with the fact that the moon-cult belongs to the nomadic and therefore earlier stage of civilization, whereas the sun-god rises to full importance only after the agricultural stage has been reached.
wiki
Posted ImageVersion of the ancient star/sun symbol of Shamash[1]



Quote

The 1st century Judaeo-Roman historian Flavius Josephus further gives the following statement: "Ashur lived at the city of Nineve; and named his subjects Assyrians, who became the most fortunate nation, beyond others” (Antiquities, i, vi, 4).
Ashur the son of Shem is sometimes compared with the figure of the deity Ashur, for whom a temple was dedicated in the early capital city of Aššur — traditionally by an early Assyrian king named Ushpia in ca. the 21st century BC. It is highly likely that the city and indeed the Assyrian nation and people, were named in honour of this deity.[2]

wiki



Quote

Artistic and Symbolic Representations

Some scholars have claimed that Ashur was represented as the solar disc that appears frequently in Assyrian iconography, but evidence indicates that this is in fact the sun god Shamash. Many Assyrian kings had names that included the name Ashur, including, above all, Ashur-uballit I, Ashurnasirpal, Esarhaddon (Ashur-aha-iddina), and Ashurbanipal. Epithets include bêlu rabû "great lord", ab ilâni "father of gods", šadû rabû "great mountain", and il aššurî "god of Ashur". The symbols of Ashur include:
  • a winged disc with horns, enclosing four circles revolving round a middle circle; rippling rays fall down from either side of the disc;
  • a circle or wheel, suspended from wings, and enclosing a warrior drawing his bow to discharge an arrow;
  • the same circle; the warrior's bow, however, is carried in his left hand, while the right hand is uplifted as if to bless his worshipers (see picture).
wiki

Posted Image A Neo-Assyrian "feather robed archer" figure, symbolizing Ashur.


Quote

Sin had a beard made of lapis lazuli and rode on a winged bull. The bull was one of his symbols, through his father, Enlil, "Bull of Heaven", along with the crescent and the tripod (which may be a lamp-stand). On cylinder seals, he is represented as an old man with a flowing beard and the crescent symbol. In the astral-theological system he is represented by the number 30 and the moon. This number probably refers to the average number of days (correctly around 29.53) in a lunar month, as measured between successive new moons.
wiki

Posted Image Impression of the cylinder seal of Ḫašḫamer, ensi (high priest) of Sin at Iškun-Sin ca. 2100 BC.


Quote

In other texts Adad/Ishkur is sometimes son of the moon god Nanna/Sin by Ningal and brother of Utu/Shamash and Inana/Ishtar. He is also occasionally son of Enlil.

wiki

Posted Image
Assyrian soldiers carrying a statue of Adad God of Weather, Hurricanes, Storms, Thunder and Rain Abode Heaven Symbol Thunderbolt, Bull, Lion Consort Shala Parents Nanna or Sin and Ningal Siblings Utu, Inanna Children Gibil or Gerra



Quote

Ishtar was the daughter of Ninurta.[4] She was particularly worshipped in northern Mesopotamia, at the Assyrian cities of Nineveh, Ashur and Arbela (Erbil).[4]
Besides the lions on her gate, her symbol is an eight-pointed star.[5]
wiki

Posted Image Ishtar holding her symbol (?) , Louvre Museum



So far no luck with the maltese/templar " cross/crucifix "

I think I gotta get the Mesopotamia - Babylon - Sumerian - Assyrian - Akkadian influences in a timeline before I can get anywhere regarding the symbols used in the representations of the deities.

I didn't realise the symbolism was so eloborate then and I suspect a lot of the wiki information has not been updated.

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#28    Abramelin

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:48 PM

Third-eye, here's a link to a site with a lot of info:

Print mode:

http://enenuru.probo...rint&thread=361

The same site, but with it's dark background:

http://enenuru.probo...play&thread=361


#29    third_eye

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:05 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 11 April 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

Third-eye, here's a link to a site with a lot of info:

Print mode:

http://enenuru.probo...rint&thread=361

The same site, but with it's dark background:

http://enenuru.probo...play&thread=361

Thanks a bundle Abe ... tip top link ... :tu:
I see most of the symbols are there ...
Link master hail ~ :nw:


I have this add on to FF :

Quote

Reader is the ultimate Reader tool for your Firefox that brings the Safari 5 Reader features to Firefox and provides you the best reading experience by transforming text on any website using fonts, colors, and layouts of your choosing in a clean and distraction free environment.

http://barisderin.com/?p=372

a great add on to deal with those crazy web pages with crazy fonts and colors .... works beautifully, a recommended tiny add on, current ver 4.3

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#30    third_eye

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:17 PM

Quote


Posted Image

3. cross,
Kassite - Neo-Assyrian,
probably the sun-god Shamash (sometimes substituting for no. 2)
( ? )


Read more: http://enenuru.probo...1#ixzz2QCPzCfVB



needs more diggin' :lol:

this is harder than I was prepared for

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