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The History of Schizophrenia


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#271    notforgotten

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 10:47 PM

View Postscowl, on 24 April 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:


I'm sorry, did you not read me describing the eight years of training they receive studying mental disorders? Not only do they know the first thing about psychosis, they also know the second thing, the third thing, the fourth thing, the fifth thing, the sixth thing, the seventh thing, and a hundred more things about it that you don't. Their research doesn't prove that schizophrenia is caused by a brain disorder. They claim that it merely implies one. They do not know what the true cause is.

A person would be naïve to believe someone just because they have an education.


#272    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 11:00 PM

View Postnotforgotten, on 25 April 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

A person would be naïve to believe someone just because they have an education.

Especially in religion.

Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason that “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous execution, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God."
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#273    Setton

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 11:25 PM

Ok, I'll play. If we assume your *ahem* interesting idea that it's all down to spirits:

I propose it is an evil tyrant who claims to be the only god dragging people into schizophrenia as an excessive punishment for breaking what he believes to be perfect rules. Other spirits then try to help them out of this by influencing scientists to come up with effective medication. These would be the ones that rebelled against your perfect god in your perfect book and lost so it takes them a long time to make progress.

My point here is, how do you prove your God is good? Without reference to a book made up specifically for that purpose.

What's that you say? He's the only God so he must be good by definition? So what about Thor, Ra, Quetzalcoatl and so on. Over history, they have at least as many 'witnesses' as those who have spoken to God/Jesus etc in their heads. Just something for you to think on; what makes you right?

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#274    scowl

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 11:45 PM

View Postnotforgotten, on 25 April 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

Their research doesn't prove that schizophrenia is caused by a brain disorder. They claim that it merely implies one. They do not know what the true cause is.

So I assume that if you ever get cancer, you won't be going to any doctors. After all, they won't be able to tell you what caused the cancer therefore by your judgement their treatment cannot work.

And don't take aspirin when you have a headache. You don't know what the true cause of your headache is so aspirin can't help.

You see? Treatment does not require a cause. This is a fundamental aspect of medicine.

Quote

A person would be naïve to believe someone just because they have an education.

However when they use their education to get provable positive results, you'd be a fool not to believe them because the results prove they know what they're doing.


#275    notforgotten

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 11:55 PM

View PostSetton, on 25 April 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

I propose it is an evil tyrant (I propose it's a tiny blind man that can't see the truth) who claims to be the only god dragging people into schizophrenia as an excessive punishment (it's sin that strengthens our shackles to the devil. It's faith, prayer and obedience to God that removes these shackles. God does not want us to be shacked to the devils otherwise he would not have sent his precious son for our deliverance) for breaking what he believes to be perfect rules. God does not ask too much of us. He merely ask us to be good people and not sin.
Many Christians today do not see schizophrenia as punishment, but as spiritual warfare.

Edited by notforgotten, 26 April 2013 - 12:01 AM.


#276    notforgotten

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:08 AM

Here is a link to what many contemporary Christians today believe schizophrenia is:  http://en.wikipedia....e_(Christianity)

Edited by notforgotten, 26 April 2013 - 12:11 AM.


#277    Setton

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:17 AM

View Postnotforgotten, on 25 April 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

Many Christians today do not see schizophrenia as punishment, but as spiritual warfare.

And none of your post addresses my main point so here it is again:

View PostSetton, on 25 April 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

My point here is, how do you prove your God is good? Without reference to a book made up specifically for that purpose.

As for God not asking too much, just that we be good and don't sin. A very small selection of these sins being:

1.

ABORTION

Ex 21:22-25; Jere 1:4,5 2.

NOT ABSTAINING FROM ALL APPEARANCE OF EVIL

1 Thes 5:22 3.

ACCUSING

Jude 9; 2 Pe 2:11 4.

NOT ACKNOWLEDGING THINE INIQUITY

Jere 3:13 5.

ADULTERY  

Mt 19:18; Gen 39:7-9; Ex 20:14

    Penalty for both involved is death

Deut 22:22; Lev 20:10-12

    To look on a woman to lust is adultery

Mt 5:28; 2 Pe 2:14 6.

AFRAID of people or circumstances

Ps 112:7 7.

AFRAID TO CONFESS JESUS TO PEOPLE

Jn 12:42 8.

UNJUSTIFIED ANGER (WRATHS)

Pv 27:4; 29:22; Ex 6:9; 2 Cor 12:20 9.

ANGRY WITH YOUR BROTHER

Mt 5:22 10.

ANXIOUS

Phili 4:6 NIV

..........Still going...


DRESSING INDECENTLY

1 Tim 2:9; Pv 7:10 71.

LOVE FANCY CLOTHING TO SHOW OFF-TO BE ADMIRED BY MEN

Mk 12:38
72.

WOMEN-BEAUTY THAT COMES FROM WEARING GOLD JEWELRY

1 Pe 3:3
73.

WOMEN-THAT DO NOT DRESS MODESTLY

1 Tim 2:9 74.

WOMEN-THAT ADORN THEMSELVES WITH GOLD, PEARLS, COSTLY ARRAY

1 Tim 2:9
75.

DISOBEYING GOD’S COMMANDMENTS

1 Jn 2:3 76.

TAKE COMMUNION BUT HAVE SIN IN YOUR LIFE (CURSED)

1 Cor 11:29,30 77.

NOT HAVING COMPASSION

1 Pe 3:8 78.

COMPLAINERS

Jude 16 79.

COMPLAINING ABOUT HARDSHIPS

Num 11:1 NIV 80.

COMPLAINING ABOUT WHAT YOU DO NOT HAVE

Num 11:4-6; 21:5 81.

CONCEITED (PRIDE)

1 Tim 3:6; 2 Tim 3:2,4 82.

CONDEMNING

Lk 6:37 83.

CONTEMNS GOD

Ps 10:13 84.

CONTEMPT

Pv 23:22; Mt 18:10; Ro 14:3 85.

NOT BEING CONTENT WITH WHAT YOU HAVE

Heb 13:5

.................Surely not many more....

650.

CONFORMING TO THIS WORLD

Ro 12:2 651.

FORSAKING GOD’S CALLING FOR THIS WORLD

2 Tim 4:10 652.

FRIENDSHIP OF THE WORLD (IS HATRED WITH GOD)

Ja 4:4 653.

GETTING ENTANGLED WITH THE AFFAIRS OF THIS LIFE

2 Tim 2:4 654.

GETTING SPOTTED FROM THE WORLD

Ja 1:27 655.

LIVING FOR YOURSELF

2 Cor 5:15; Lk 9:23 656.

LOVING THIS WORLD

1 Jn 2:15-17; Ja 1:27; 4:4 657.

LOVING YOUR LIFE

Jn 12:25 658.

MIND OR THOUGHTS ON THIS WORLD

Phili 3:18,19 659.

SERVING EARTHLY THINGS

Ro 1:25 660.

SPEAKING OF THE WORLD

Jn 3:31; 1 Jn 4:5,6 661.

SORROW OF THE WORLD

2 Cor 7:10 662.

WORLDLY AMBITION

Acts 8:18-24; Lk 12:15-21

And my personal favourites: Being Worried and Younger not submitting to Elder. Sure... Not asking much...

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#278    Setton

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:22 AM

View Postnotforgotten, on 26 April 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

Here is a link to what many contemporary Christians today believe schizophrenia is:  http://en.wikipedia....e_(Christianity)

Congratulations! You have excelled yourself by linking an article that does not exist...

Guessing you meant this: http://en.wikipedia...._(Christianity)

I challenge you to find any mention of schizophrenia or mental illness in said article.

Incidentally, this is what many more Christians consider schizophrenia to be.

Edited by Setton, 26 April 2013 - 12:25 AM.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#279    notforgotten

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:41 AM

View PostSetton, on 26 April 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

Congratulations! You have excelled yourself by linking an article that does not exist...

Guessing you meant this: http://en.wikipedia...._(Christianity)

I challenge you to find any mention of schizophrenia or mental illness in said article.

Incidentally, this is what many more Christians consider schizophrenia to be.
You can check the internet yourself. Look up schizophrenia and spiritual warfare or schizophrenia and Christian spiritual warfare.


#280    Setton

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:51 AM

View Postnotforgotten, on 26 April 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

You can check the internet yourself. Look up schizophrenia and spiritual warfare or schizophrenia and Christian spiritual warfare.

Ah yes, the internet. Fount of all knowledge. Because nothing on the internet is wrong or misrepresents a group :rolleyes: You can also find sites claiming Obama and the Queen are giant lizards. Doesn't mean it's true or that most people believe it.

As I said, many more go with the explanation I gave above.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#281    Einsteinium

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:12 AM

You should all read this in its entirety I found it to be very informative and about this  exact same topic:http://www.healthcen...ion/65621/86557


#282    Beany

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:40 AM

View Postnotforgotten, on 25 April 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

Many Christians today do not see schizophrenia as punishment, but as spiritual warfare.

"Many Christians?" Back up that statement with facts, please.


#283    pallidin

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:59 AM

How did religion get in this discussion of the known, but not well understood, psychiatric illness of schizophrenia?


#284    scowl

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 05:08 PM

View Postpallidin, on 26 April 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

How did religion get in this discussion of the known, but not well understood, psychiatric illness of schizophrenia?

"notforgotten" claims that it is not a psychiatric illness but it is caused by evil spirits who are either possessing, tormenting or punishing the victim for bad things they've done and the only cure is to become a Christian which has had a 100% success rate, while the medical community who treat thousands of schizophrenics every day has had no success because they use drugs instead of Jesus. In fact this so-called medical condition "schizophrenia" would have to be one of the biggest conspiracies in the history of mankind.

As for "science" and "evidence" to support these claims, those words appear to have little to no meaning to him. For example his undeniable proof of the existence of evil spirits was images of ghosts he found on the Internet. As for proof of the curative powers of Jesus Christ against spiritual tormentors he mentioned a web site which has two testimonies supporting his claim.


#285    pallidin

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 05:45 PM

Well, thanks ffor the info, scowl.

I usually read all pages before commenting, but I obviously didn't in this case. My bad.

You know, I seem to recall hearing somewhere that many religions consider certaim forms of mental illness to be the result of "possession" or "oppression" by "evil spirits"

I heard that the Catholic Church will not officially perform an "exorcism" until medical conditions, including psychiatric are ruled-out.





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