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The History of Schizophrenia


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#421    Ellapennella

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:33 AM

^
A fictional tale based on real life ? "Seriously  ?"  Now that sounds  a bit  contradictive.
I don't know all of the details of that family's personal  life or the Exorcist for that matter.  Though ,I was already aware of  that you stated , thank you anyway. .

The point that the exorist was trying to make was that the "medication "given to her only locked or kept her mind locked into a state of torment . He was portrayed as someone who knew and cared for that family. .Again , I do not know exactly what the family's personal life  (and the exorcist /Priest)   was all  about so I will not be able to place judgment on them regarding their daughter ..

What you "think" the smoke like sulfer  order that was sensed by her  ? do you think that was all in her head too? fictional (?)
I'm not going into details of one or two examples of exorcsims with you here . I know there are some that are just not real and should never have taken place, or others that are true and needed to have taken place.
I truly do not believe that every situation dealing with the supernatural needs a catholic priest to be present, just because they are catholic? also , some churches are  creepy regarding claims of possession that I think are in most cases fraud., not every situation , but most..

I can share with you more postive details and you can continue to share negative ones , that are b.t.w legit to share because there are negative ones , but it's worthless to me to  go back and forth  about it.

What have they since discovered regarding mental illness since the 60's ? have they discovered how to mask the issue and push more pills  on society?   I don't place complete trust in  Dr's or psychiatrist and their every prescibed pharmacedtical drug .


#422    Ellapennella

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:40 AM

View PostKNash, on 15 May 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Level of care extends beyond just being fed, clothed, and bathed but also emcompasses all levels of mental care as well including being perscribed medications. While it is a positive thing that there are many medications that treat psychosis, what is sad is experienced from a personal and familial perspective that a loved one is ill and it may feel as if no medication will ever ameliorate symptoms efficiently. I'm an advocate for medication if there is no other alternative but the more switches there are between antipsychotics the more there is an inhibiting and promoting of neurotransmitters that cause these levels to become even more unbalanced. However, there really is no avoiding this because any treatment of psychosis is a complicated process but being given medication can still be better than the alternative of experiencing psychosis full on.



The rites of exorcism by the Vatican were rewritten because of case the of Anneliese Michel (Emily Rose). At one point, Michael was on antipsychotics for schizophrenia. In this case it is important to look at contextual factors as a possible influence of her medical condition This contextual here factor is religion. Michael was a devout Catholic who eventually attributed her condition to denomic posession. Considering the fact that she was devout, she was raised in a very religious home where her parents possibly used supernatural explanations to account for certain behaviors that they never thought to be attirbuted to medical or just behavior problems. This could be why they didn't persist with medical treatment and turned to other means. Even the priests that she and her parents sought help from recommended that she continue medical treatment which eventually ceased because Michael herself refused treatment and voiced her opinion on it. She eventually died from starvation and dehydration. What always got me was the fact that there was obviously something wrong with this girl and her decision to stop treatment was honored. After initially reading this I was blind sided by the fact that her parents did what she wanted regardless of the fact that her mental capabilities were compromised.



Why do you think that the medical staff was trying to mask the truth? What would they gain from it? What contributes to your unwavering opinion that she was posessed? Is there some evidence you could cite to support your opinion? I'm curious because there is a reason for everything.


I'm really happy for the multiquote feature on UM right now.
Well , we just don't know exactly what happened there . I recall that the priest said to keep her on certain medication but that there was one whoch was harmful, it was the ne that he said locked her mind into that stae. yet you blame her catholic faith alone and not that particular drug .Funny how so much is being discovered of the side effects of these drugs.


#423    scowl

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:01 PM

View PostReann, on 16 May 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

What have they since discovered regarding mental illness since the 60's ?

They've discovered that brain chemistry is more complicated. They had been looking for a simple cause like dopamine overproduction but we now know that several factors are involved and there is possibly a genetic predisposition to it. Most of the discoveries involve layer upon layer of complicated neurological chemistry that they never get into the mainstream press. These new medications didn't invent themselves.

They haven't discovered much more about migraines though. Maybe they're caused by evil spirits.


#424    KNash

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:09 PM

View PostReann, on 16 May 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

^
A fictional tale based on real life ? "Seriously  ?"  Now that sounds  a bit  contradictive.


This isn't a contradiction. Fictional stories can be based on actual events. Here's an example, the movie, A Beautiful Mind was based on a living person named John Forbes Nash (I like his last name). While Nash was indeed a brilliant man there was no denying that he was paranoid amongst other things. In the movie, he was made out ot have all sorts of hallucinations that he never had and apparently was able to see people who weren't really there. This of course is fictional. The plot of the movie was fiction but, it was based on a few aspects of Nash's life.

View PostReann, on 16 May 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Well , we just don't know exactly what happened there . I recall that the priest said to keep her on certain medication but that there was one whoch was harmful, it was the ne that he said locked her mind into that stae. yet you blame her catholic faith alone and not that particular drug .Funny how so much is being discovered of the side effects of these drugs.

I said contextual factors. Not a contextual factor. What I said was that contextual factors need to be asessed and in this case the factor (in question) was religion. There are other contextual factors as well such as social life, family, medical history, etc. Contextual implies that they work with other influences to produce behavior/resuts. One alone can't account for a result. There was no sole blame on Catholicism.

Edited by KNash, 16 May 2013 - 08:18 PM.

Posted Image

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#425    KNash

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:15 PM

View Postscowl, on 16 May 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

They've discovered that brain chemistry is more complicated. They had been looking for a simple cause like dopamine overproduction but we now know that several factors are involved and there is possibly a genetic predisposition to it. Most of the discoveries involve layer upon layer of complicated neurological chemistry that they never get into the mainstream press. These new medications didn't invent themselves.

They haven't discovered much more about migraines though. Maybe they're caused by evil spirits.

I agree. There is a genetic predisposition because schizophrenia is multifactorial. There is no schizophrenic gene. Genes cause the individual to have a certain vulnerability but the levels vary with each person. For some it takes the trauma of war (environmental/contextual factor) and for others it could be the loss of a job or even divorce. Ecogenics is an interesting field to look into which attemps to explain the interaction between environment and genetics.

Posted Image

"She never looked nice. She looked like art, and art wasn't supposed to look nice; it was supposed to make you feel something.”
- Rainbow Rowell, Elenor & Park


#426    markprice

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 05:36 AM

View Postscowl, on 13 May 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

Making them functional means giving them the ability to hold jobs, pay bills, and take care of themselves. I would hardly describe this as "pound them back into some miserable pigeon hole." This is something that all kinds of people should be capable of.

You obviously have no idea what schizophrenia is like.



Quote

And what is this process?

And you don't know the process.



Quote

Oh boy, another one...

Condescension works both ways.

This is getting shilly - Math

#427    Mikko-kun

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:41 AM

View Postphantasia, on 05 May 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

Wow.  I just read 25 pages of people bickering with an unmedicated schizophrenic.  Give it up, OP is mentally ill.  :/

On page 25 or so... I pressed "like" because this spared me from browsing through those 25 pages. Seems like Scowl and notforgotten are going at it.

So can anyone give some hard evidence on where schizophrenia originates from, where is it's seed from which it starts to grow, and how is that seed planted into someone? Figuratively speaking, as I doubt it's an invisible hand nor a "seed" in the meaning of plant-biology... I mentioned this in case someone takes everything literally, but because it's internet you can't always blame people for doing that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems a few things are pretty much known about schizophrenia:

- Medication doesn't work in a fair amount of cases/stages (as Texas Pete said), yet it works on many cases (as Scowl said). This begs a question, does placebo medication work. As in giving sugar pills or something without telling the patient, does it have a positive effect? Or negative one?
- Psychosis medication doesn't always remove the symptoms that are labeled as hallucinations. I say "labeled as" because I've not seen proof that they were, not that I'd have any proof for my beliefs about this either.
- Confronting yourself seems to be the key here, finding a personal point where you can accept the whole thing and put it in it's place in your worldview, in a place where it doesn't disturb you. Whether that place is "among hallucinations", or "something you dont have to do anything about because you can't", or "something you've made peace with and is in the past, not in effect anymore". Finding peace one way or another seems important, because difficulties/symptoms in the way you talk, symptoms in talking, are there in schizophrenia, and I associate those symptoms with not being in peace with something. A common effect when you get agitated in an argument or start to defend your belief more vehemently and maybe overprotectively.

Wherever there's a problem, there's solutions.
Answers are found from a wide deep perspective, from opened mind's eyes.
From where good and bad stay silent and you hear the real cause and effect, and big picture.
Giving up is wasting your time, but also necessary to find the true cause you didn't find yet.
Staying in the path is necessary only when there's trueness in that path.

#428    Frank Merton

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:55 AM

I wonder if I'm perhaps mildly schizophrenic.  I hear voices.  They don't say anything except my name, clear enough to get me to sit up and look around, and always in some voice I know, even though they are not present.

(A couple of times this has happened when the person was present, and when I've persisted that they said my name I've gotten puzzled looks).

I'm not particularly worried about the phenomenon, and it is rare (not more than a few times a year).  I figure something in my brain generates an illusion of a sound and some other part of my brain decides it is a real sound and generates it as my name as a default.  Kinda like random discharges of brain activity.


#429    markprice

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:30 PM

View Postscowl, on 16 May 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

They've discovered that brain chemistry is more complicated. They had been looking for a simple cause like dopamine overproduction but we now know that several factors are involved and there is possibly a genetic predisposition to it. Most of the discoveries involve layer upon layer of complicated neurological chemistry that they never get into the mainstream press. These new medications didn't invent themselves.

They haven't discovered much more about migraines though. Maybe they're caused by evil spirits.

"Most practicing psychiatrists feel that atypical antipsychotics may work better than the older drugs. However, the additional benefits may be modest for most patients. Large, high-quality studies have compared newer and older drugs and generally found that newer atypical antipsychotics work no better than older typical antipsychotics such as haloperidol, at least for initial treatment of first-episode schizophrenia Similarly, for treatment of children and adolescents with schizophrenia, both atypical and typical antipsychotics appear to be equally effective, but atypical antipsychotics carry a higher risk for metabolic side effects."

So, no real progress and worse side effects. Might as well try Excedrin-migraine for your next exorcism.

This is getting shilly - Math

#430    Frank Merton

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:32 PM

The incentives for private development of psychological drugs (in fact all drugs) are screwed up and almost entirely based on what the States' does.  In the meantime, public development never produces anything except fat salaries for directors.  This means a lot more suffering in the world than need be.


#431    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:38 PM

View Postnotforgotten, on 12 April 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

What would you know of truth Rlyeh?.... you believe in nothing.

More like he only believes in his own personal truth ,and insulting other people's beliefs,instead of discussing them,is all he understands .


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#432    markprice

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 03:08 AM

I consider the following to be the proper attitude for dealing with this kind of thing.

Differentiating between the pathological, and possible religious or
spiritual connotations of schizophrenia sheds light on the possible mechanisms of coping, useful in developing clinical strategies in the treatment of schizophrenia. While many studies have focused on the nature and treatment of auditory hallucinations within modalities such as cognitive-behavioral therapy and/or psychiatric interventions, these modalities aim at eliminating the auditory hallucinations in patients with schizophrenia, perceiving them as a pathological symptom. Research has also been undertaken in understanding the cultural and religious components of schizophrenia, as well as how religion and spirituality have been incorporated in the coping mechanisms of this population (Lukoff, 2007). However, there appears to be very little research on how auditory hallucinations themselves may be incorporated in the recovery process, in the development of new meaning and purpose as one grows beyond the catastrophe of mental illness (Anthony, 1993). It also implies that the individual may not necessarily be cured or be symptom free.



A Jungian Approach to Psychosis: Auditory Hallucinations in Schizophrenia: Collaborating with the Voices from Without



Conclusion
Extensive research has been undertaken with respect to auditory hallucinations within psychiatric populations (e.g.: schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, dementia, etc). In the same vein, there has been some research conducted with non-psychiatric populations, thereby indicating that auditory hallucinations are not necessarily a pathological phenomena, but part of the human experience..."

This is getting shilly - Math

#433    Einsteinium

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:17 PM

I thought I would post this as it is relevant to this topic: http://www.sci-news....neuregulin.html

Science marches on! Ever closer to curing this condition!


#434    notforgotten

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:40 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 20 May 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

I wonder if I'm perhaps mildly schizophenic. I hear voices. The voices are spirits.

They don't say anything except my name, Both good and evil spirits call out people's names. Angels are well known for calling out people's names.

clear enough to get me to sit up and look around,  Making the reality of it all the more real!

and always in some voice I know, It's by the powers of the angels, demons and both God and Jesus that bring known spirits into our lives. If it is a good spirit with God, then it is generally considered a call to grace and salvation - a call to God.

even though they are not present. They appear not to be present because they are in the invisible spirit world.

(A couple of times this has happened when the person was present, and when I've persisted that they said my name I've gotten puzzled looks). Sometimes spirits will use another persons voice to talk to you. Demons often times do this, very cleverly masquerading [deceiving] as someone else.

I'm not particularly worried about the phenomenon, and it is rare (not more than a few times a year).  I figure something in my brain generates an illusion of a sound and some other part of my brain decides it is a real sound and generates it as my name as a default.  Kinda like random discharges of brain activity.
The truth is that you are a witness to the invisible spirit world.

Edited by notforgotten, 30 May 2013 - 02:51 PM.


#435    Frank Merton

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:55 PM

Maybe, but if so they don't tell me anything of any use, so it seems pointless.  My theory strikes me as more likely.





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