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The History of Schizophrenia


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#61    notforgotten

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:24 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 14 April 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

There's more than an element of truth in this. Psychiatry is still in the dark ages relative to other branches of medicine. We can look back on the treatments of the 20th century (ECT, insulin shock, and medications with hideous side effects) and consider them pretty barbaric. In years to come, people will look back on how we treat mental illness now with the same opinion. It can't be cured and chemical control of symptoms involves the use of medication with potentially lethal side effects. Over 100 years ago, the physicians treating schizophrenia told their patients the truth, that they were being persecuted by evil spirits.

The problem here is your cynical attitude towards psychiatrists. My attitude is more geared toward the profession of psychiatry and it's diagnostic agency, the APA. I apologizes if I sounded otherwise. Every one I've ever worked with does not fit your description of a wolf in a shirt and tie. Their lie is destructive and attempts to discredit the millions of testimonies of people who have witnessed God, Jesus, angels, saints, demons and evil spirits (ghosts). They enter the profession for the same reasons any doctor enters the medical profession. To make a difference - and the vanity that comes with being able to use "Dr" in your name. And yes, they're the "authority" on something they know less about than they would care to admit.

Mental illness is a very real phenomenon and people who suffer from psychosis can experience profound distress and desperation as a result of their symptoms. I can only conclude you've never met anyone in an acute phase of their illness, as you would surely realise that these are not "spiritual" experiences. I've heard God, seen Jesus, the Holy Spirit, an angel, saint, demons (was possessed by one twice) and the dead. Also, I have witnessed some of the powers of the supernatural. This was all real and not an "hallucination".

I also believe that grave injustices have been done to the mentally ill, and still are. But not for the reasons you think.
The psychiatric lie attempts to discredit the testimony of anyone who has seen anything in the paranormal or supernatural.

Edited by notforgotten, 16 April 2013 - 03:26 AM.


#62    notforgotten

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:31 AM

View PostR4z3rsPar4d0x, on 14 April 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Not to mention, why would god need to talk to anyone in that way
God reaches out to the broken sinner. He always has and especially in the invisible spirit world where he resides.


#63    pallidin

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:05 AM




#64    notforgotten

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:07 AM

View PostLava_Lady, on 14 April 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Maybe there is a happy medium to this topic...

In the past, some people that claimed to see said entities were pronounced mystics or touched by God. They did witness said entities then as they do today. Maybe they were, we don't know. Millions of witnesses of said truth, over thousands of years, including today, would be enough to win in any court of law.  What we know currently is that a lot of these people that see God, angels, demons, cannot function in a way that they can be considered safe to themselves. There are a great many more that can function and are safe to themselves and others.  

If they see said entities and are able to function, then fine, as long as they will not harm others or themselves.  We often call this group evangelists or the religious and they are accepted as party of the community.
Each case of "hallucination" should be considered individually. Neither of these cases are hallucinations. The schizophrenic may misinterpret the spiritual being lead by the lying/deceiving devils and may have delusional/psychotic thoughts pertaining to their experience, but it is most definitely not a hallucination. Doesn't matter what we believe our don't believe in.



#65    notforgotten

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:15 AM

View Postarcher95446, on 15 April 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

My friend, that I've mentioned before, is schizophrenic and bi-polar. Her severe alcohol addiction and past drug addictions, have only added negativity to her life. She has gotten accustomed to "being cared for", by her boyfriend. He does whatever she tells him to do!!! They both have the same mental health problems, both take serquole, except his
is a stronger dosage. She takes his meds and he takes hers. But, their meds are doing them any good anyways, because they emerse themselves in vodka, from the minute they wake up (3 or 4am), till they pass out, just to wake and do it again. Neither of their mental health counselors, have a clue, about their alcoholism and they believe
them, when they say that they had stopped drinking a long time ago. They both know, that if they told the truth about their drinking problem, that they would be cut off from their meds.
Their lives revolve around vodka.  I've read that the majority of those affected with schizophrenia and or bi-polar, are alcoholics and or drug addicts.  Also, alcohol renders psych meds, ineffective. Yet, it increases the bad side-effects, of those meds.  I've recently learned from her daughter (whose 26 yrs. old, married and has 3 kids), that, while her mother was still living in California, that she "got away" with attacking (physically), people (cops, too), just because she didn't like what they said. She still does this, where she lives now.
She has been arrested so many times, for this behavior, just to be let go and all charges dropped. She even pulled a gun on several people and got away with it. I've also learned, she was very abusive to her 2 kids, when they were very little. Burned them with cigarettes, drop-kicked them into walls, held their heads under scalding hot water, in the tub.
The state took her son and her mother got custody her daughter, she would've ended up killing them, otherwise!!  She lived on the same property, as her parents, in a trailer, so she still was able to physcially and emotionally abuse her daughter, but not as much as before. She has never learned the consequences for her bad behavior, because law enforcement and the courts don't want to "deal' with her, besides, not having the time and resources, to handle the mentally ill. That's the excuse, her mother, then her daughter was told repeatedly over the years. She was arrested so many times for being drunk in public and possession and under the influence of meth and other people's perscription sleeping pills, that the cops started to just confiscate the drugs and drive her home, without any other reprecussions for her behavior. The mental hospital, told her daughter that they refuse to admit her, not even for a 72 hour hold, because she is able to feed and dress herself.  Even though,she's been living in another state for a few years, law enforcement still turns a blind eye on her antics, her and her boyfriend even get away with drunk driving and stealing.  The mental hospital also had told her daughter, that the mental health system was de-regulated by Regan, when he was president. Until the system can be over-hauled and re-regulated, nothing can be done to help her mother, unless she kills someone, but, even then, they felt she would only "get a slap on the wrist"!!! The system has failed for the mentally ill and will continue to do so, until it's regulated again!!!
Methamphetamines is one of the sins that bring evil spirits into peoples lives.


#66    notforgotten

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:18 AM

View PostArbenol68, on 15 April 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

Have you even thought this through? If schizophrenia is a punishment for sin, don't you think it would afflict more than 1% of the population? Or is it just the punishment for using drugs?

What's the punishment for theft? Herpes?
Only certain sins will bring evil spirits into a persons life.


#67    notforgotten

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:30 AM

View PostLava_Lady, on 15 April 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

This is absolute nonsense.

For this to have any truth at all, you would have to prove catholicism is the one true religion and that will be impossible.  Especially considering the Catholic church's history of merging Pagan beliefs into Christian belief to trick people into catholicism.

But I digress, the issue is not the church, it's the issue of mental illness and I don't think you have enough understanding of the biology of mental illness to make any declarations of cures.  Mental illness is what it is, an illness.  It is not a punishment.
If you were to listen to those beautiful lowly children of God bearing testimony to the truth then you would know it. Instead psychiatry erroneously labels it all as a psychosis (lost of touch with reality). It's true that a schizophrenic will have his/her bouts with reality battling with the masquerading, lying, deceiving devils.


#68    notforgotten

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:10 AM

View PostBeany, on 15 April 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

I've been out on the net looking at information about how the Catholic Church regards mental illness, and it seems the institution no longer considers it caused by demons nor something for which the sufferer needs to atone. It seems the OP is out of step with the church on this issue. I don't know how old the Catechism is, but I suspect it was written during a time when there was little understanding of mental illness and possibly during a time when the church turned it's back on medicine because suffering was "God's will."
The Catholic Church still adheres to the doctrine of temporal punishment. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. Within the Church, a person must consult a priest to determine if what they are experiencing is temporal punishment or not. If the priest determines that it is not temporal punishment and may be a mental disorder, they will refer them to a psychiatrist.


#69    notforgotten

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:37 AM

View Postscowl, on 15 April 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

The key to understanding this disease is that is has a wide degree of symptoms. People like "notforgotten" believe that all schizophrenics are completely catatonic and experiencing continuous horrifying hallucinations. I don't believe that they are catatonic or experiencing any hallucinations at all. I believe that they are being persecuted by evil spirits and that what they are experiencing is real, although they may get deceived (lose touch with reality) at the hands of this evil sometimes or be delusional on account of misinterpreting what they are experiencing. Most maintain themselves very well. Fortunately these people are just the most severe examples of the disease. It can be as subtle as occasional difficultly in thinking logically. Most schizophrenics are aware of their condition and will gladly tell you that medications (especially in recent years) has helped them greatly. Most schizophrenics will tell you that the medication has numerous side effects and is mostly ineffective for their symptoms.

The last thing we need to do is treat them like they're bad people who deserve to suffer in their condition like "notforgotten" is recommending. I'm not recommending anyone to treat anyone badly. On the contrary, I'm recommending that people understand what they are going through and believe their testimonies.



#70    Arbenol68

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:04 AM

View Postnotforgotten, on 16 April 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

Most schizophrenics will tell you that the medication has numerous side effects and is mostly ineffective for their symptoms.

Whilst the first part of your statement is undoubtedly true, the second is clearly not. Some sufferers will never respond to any medication and many will always have residual symptoms. But, notwithstanding the often terrible side effects, the right medication can significantly reduce (if not eliminate) symptoms. The problem is that they have to keep taking it indefinitely. Because no one has been able to develop an effective antipsychotic without side effects people tend to skip doses, reduce what they take, or stop taking it altogether. Relapse and re emergence of symptoms becomes inevitable.


#71    SpiritWriter

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:09 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 15 April 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:


Ironically it is the catholic church that leads other Christian organizations in acceptance of science and the modern understanding of the universe. it's one of the reasons they have been around for so long. They can roll with the punches and change with the times. I am maried to a catholic woman and was maried in a catholic ceremony. The priest knew I wasn't catholic and could not convert even for my fiancé because I would be lying to everyone. He respected this and told me he would rather marry a principled honest man to a catholic woman than Somone who pretended to be something he wasn't. I attend mass regularly with my wife, and on Easter morning I had a lovely conversation with a Hindu woman while my wife waited in the long line for  communion.

This would never happen at the other 'moderate' churches. Catholicism, though bad press occasionally, is evolving quit nicely actually.

I always thought it funny that a religion in which a large majority is opposed to the theory of evolution is actually subject to it and is undergoing natural selection as we speak. the first religion to recognize this will win the cake.

Churches vary.... I was shunned at a catholic church for not going through their little whatever its called conversion process and not allowed to take the eucharist, the priest actually kicked me out of line.. at my old church we took communion once a month and werent required to do anything but pray before hand making sure we didnt have any unforgiveness in our hearts. The church I go to now, its possible you'd be friends with the pastor since you like to talk about spirituality, you probably wouldnt see eye to eye on everything but you could easily have conversations with him regarding spirituality without being offended about him being a christian  pastor... it took me a while to find this church, so I understand the types of churches you mean, BUT I have been hearing a lot of sermons as of late by a variety of people that seem to be on an upward swing in regards to the issues I have.. I dont know what issues you have about the church. I would assume bigotry against other religions. Or something about demons.... i took one of my god kids to get prayed for because she was seeing shadows and he prayed to take away the fear but to understand her gifts, at the time i didnt agree with him, i thought he should pray to get rid of them, she seemed to like how he prayed though so thats good. .. I know for sure my pastor wouldn't have a problem marrying interfaith people.
I think it really depends on the church and its particular leaders not the sect....

Edited by SpiritWriter, 16 April 2013 - 06:22 AM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#72    Rlyeh

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:25 AM

View Postnotforgotten, on 16 April 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

The psychiatric lie attempts to discredit the testimony of anyone who has seen anything in the paranormal or supernatural.
How can you call this BS truth? You're stuck in a past of archaic beliefs.


#73    SpiritWriter

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:32 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 16 April 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

How can you call this BS truth? You're stuck in a past of archaic beliefs.

And where are you stuck?

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#74    Rlyeh

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:14 AM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 16 April 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

And where are you stuck?
In the real world with a bunch of idiots who think mental illness is caused by spirits.


#75    Lava_Lady

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:24 AM

What qualifications does a priest have to determine what kind of help a schizophrenic needs?  Unless he is a psychiatrist this sounds dangerous.

If a person is sick, by all means incorporate their faith into healing if that's going to help, but it can't be the only factor and should not be the diagnosing factor...that thought is scary.  Especially to say one is being punished for committing certain sins.

Raven eyes, in post 45 said his sister started showing symptoms at 16, no street drugs are mentioned.  What are her sins?  What could she possibly have done in 16 years of life that deserves that kind of punishment?

Why are serial murders still sane?  Why aren't they being punished with schizophrenia?  Their crimes are heinous!  Any murderer for that matter.  And child molesters too.

Why is it ok to judge anyone a sinner, regardless of mental health?  Isn't judgment a sin in catholicism?

Edited by Lava_Lady, 16 April 2013 - 07:26 AM.

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."  - F. Scott Fitzgerald





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