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DARPA Building Robots With ‘Real’ Brains


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#16    seeder

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 06:36 PM

View PostFlyingAngel, on 13 April 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

Not a big deal when they are intelligent enough to take one or two scientist as hostage to feed them daily or even steal the charger.
Dangerously, if they have no remorse and no fear, threaten them is useless. They dont need a gun you know. With a bare hand they could pierce your heart or twist your neck in a flash

I think your imagination might be running away with you, from the news article:

"It is not clear, however, that the Pentagon is ready to adopt this technology for weapon systems. The Obama administration’s use of drones in “targeted killings” of terrorist suspects has provoked a backlash and prompted the Pentagon to issue new rules for the use of robotic weapons. “Autonomous and semi-autonomous weapon systems shall be designed to allow commanders and operators to exercise appropriate levels of human judgment over the use of force,” said a Nov. 2012 Defense Department policy statement. Autonomous weapons, the document said, must “complete engagements in a timeframe consistent with commander and operator intentions and, if unable to do so, [must] terminate engagements or seek additional human operator input before continuing the engagement.”

Believe me, no AI robot will ever be let loose without some form of control parameters. And besides, killers usually have terrible childhoods and various psychological issues.... which no robot can ever have..



.

Edited by seeder, 13 April 2013 - 06:38 PM.

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#17    Mikko-kun

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:13 PM

Great, we dont have to think for ourselves soon when robots do that for us. It was a pain in the butt anyhow, I'm sure a lot of people are glad inside because of this even if they might say "oh no I'm an individual and think for myself". Well soon you dont have to assure anyone.


#18    Bildr

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:23 PM

That is going great specialy when you know how humans in our modern world are incapable to think for themselves...


#19    Starseed hybrid 1111

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:44 PM

not a good idea i am glad they don't have the technology for that yet.


#20    spud the mackem

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:44 PM

View Postseeder, on 13 April 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

I think your imagination might be running away with you, from the news article:

"It is not clear, however, that the Pentagon is ready to adopt this technology for weapon systems. The Obama administration’s use of drones in “targeted killings” of terrorist suspects has provoked a backlash and prompted the Pentagon to issue new rules for the use of robotic weapons. “Autonomous and semi-autonomous weapon systems shall be designed to allow commanders and operators to exercise appropriate levels of human judgment over the use of force,” said a Nov. 2012 Defense Department policy statement. Autonomous weapons, the document said, must “complete engagements in a timeframe consistent with commander and operator intentions and, if unable to do so, [must] terminate engagements or seek additional human operator input before continuing the engagement.”

Believe me, no AI robot will ever be let loose without some form of control parameters. And besides, killers usually have terrible childhoods and various psychological issues.... which no robot can ever have..



.
   And which paranoid scientist who had a bad childhood will build a robot to his own specification, ie:- add a few micro-chips to kill all females with green eyes,because he didn't get on with his green eyed  ex-girlfriend.

(1) try your best, ............if that dont work.
(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#21    DONTEATUS

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:48 PM

Surprised theres not three dozen commits about Arnold ?


#22    FlyingAngel

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 12:41 AM

View Postseeder, on 13 April 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

I think your imagination might be running away with you, from the news article:

"It is not clear, however, that the Pentagon is ready to adopt this technology for weapon systems. The Obama administration’s use of drones in “targeted killings” of terrorist suspects has provoked a backlash and prompted the Pentagon to issue new rules for the use of robotic weapons. “Autonomous and semi-autonomous weapon systems shall be designed to allow commanders and operators to exercise appropriate levels of human judgment over the use of force,” said a Nov. 2012 Defense Department policy statement. Autonomous weapons, the document said, must “complete engagements in a timeframe consistent with commander and operator intentions and, if unable to do so, [must] terminate engagements or seek additional human operator input before continuing the engagement.”

Believe me, no AI robot will ever be let loose without some form of control parameters. And besides, killers usually have terrible childhoods and various psychological issues.... which no robot can ever have..



.
You underestimate intelligence, don't you? When the brain reach a certain intelligence, it will starts questioning orders, have free will and decide the decision on it's own. In human term, it's called betrayal. AI is nothing more than a piece of program injected into a metal. In my philosophy, anything developed and created by human is flawed from the beginning; it takes time to fix and improved. The question is, by the time we detect our mistake, will it be not too late? And as the robot is improved, so does its intelligence, what can you do to control them? They will learn to "pretend" to follow order, but their thought don't.

Moreover, just because it has a brain, doesn't mean it has a heart. It's what make it dangerous, comparable to a wild animal.

Intelligence can be a bliss or a weapon, depends on the point of view.

Another problem is the one behind, controlling this machine. Who's to say that he's an angel, a Buddha with pure heart? :)

Edited by FlyingAngel, 14 April 2013 - 12:43 AM.


#23    Mikko-kun

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:00 AM

I say give it control of nukes and see what happens! Aint that a good idea?

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#24    cachibatches.

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 05:31 AM

Anyone ever see Dark Star, when the bomb wants to detonate and Pinback has to discuss Decartesian philosophy with it in order to get it to calm down?


#25    DKO

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:00 PM

Why would these robots want to rebel against mankind? They will be able to learn new information but they wouldn't have emotions or a conscience. They wouldn't care they are slaves.

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#26    Ninja KO

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 04:08 PM

Ok, not trying to start an arguement, but arent there enough movies out there to tell you this is a BAD idea.


#27    Ninja KO

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 04:11 PM

Ok, not trying to start an arguement, but arent there enough movies out there to tell you this is a BAD idea.


#28    FlyingAngel

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 04:22 PM

View PostDKO, on 14 April 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

Why would these robots want to rebel against mankind? They will be able to learn new information but they wouldn't have emotions or a conscience. They wouldn't care they are slaves.
Why not? They learn the law of the nature : whoever is more intelligent, has a better strength, rules the world. Possible thoughts of robots:
"Why should I follow your order?"
"What if I don't follow your order?"
"I don't care if I'm a slave, I also don't care if you're a slave..."

It's a matter of time they will learn that humanity is a nuisance, destroyer of the environment.. then they'll start to take over the world, when you have nothing more to teach them, it's their time to teach us back with their super brain of Einstein.


#29    seeder

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 04:44 PM

View PostFlyingAngel, on 14 April 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

You underestimate intelligence, don't you? When the brain reach a certain intelligence, it will starts questioning orders, have free will and decide the decision on it's own. In human term, it's called betrayal. AI is nothing more than a piece of program injected into a metal. In my philosophy, anything developed and created by human is flawed from the beginning; it takes time to fix and improved. The question is, by the time we detect our mistake, will it be not too late? And as the robot is improved, so does its intelligence, what can you do to control them? They will learn to "pretend" to follow order, but their thought don't.

Moreover, just because it has a brain, doesn't mean it has a heart. It's what make it dangerous, comparable to a wild animal.

Intelligence can be a bliss or a weapon, depends on the point of view.

Another problem is the one behind, controlling this machine. Who's to say that he's an angel, a Buddha with pure heart? :)

No, youre wrong, I do not underestimate intelligence. YOU however need to re-read the 'whole' article again, maybe twice..

We are not talking about a human brain in a machine., We vare talking of how synapses work to relay information and enable faster desision making. Do you understand computing?

How intelligent is a rat? A Mouse?

So think like this, a rat in a pipe with a fork ahead...it goes down the right hand fork, and finds a dead end. It doesn't stand there banging its head against the wall trying to bust thru. It simply backs up the pipe to where the fork is, and this time takes a left... and finds it can continue its path

This is simple intelligence. Nobody told the rat what to do, it did what it does. Simple. How will the same decision making process in a robot be so scary?  And what makes you think more intelligence than a rat is even needed for the stated objectives?

Rats and their intelligence do not plot against mankind and wish to take over and kill everything. You have been watching far too many movies and base your thoughts on what you think you know. Nothing as complex as a human brain can be built. Nothing. At least not in this lifetime.

To have a robot encounter an obstacle, and by having simple intelligence it makes the 'decision'...to back up and find another route, thats pretty much what we are talking about here

You may remember that the entire computing power of the Apollo missions were no more powerful than a pocket calculator, but those ingenious computer systems were able to guide astronauts across 356,000 km of space from the Earth to the Moon and return them safely.

Think about that. The power of a calculator. Or the intelligence of a rat, who doesn't even suffer dark human thoughts let alone think like one.

No rat can play chess with you. Or even estimate your age. Yet they are intelligent. There are hundreds of different levels of intelligence.

To be as smart as a rat is a very complicated thing however, even endowing a machine with 'its' level of decision making wont be easy, but it will be about all thats needed.

You need to get real and not be obsessed with what you have seen in movies, or that machines will gain an edge over man.

The last sentence in my above post was -

" Autonomous weapons, the document said, must “complete engagements in a timeframe consistent with commander and operator intentions and, if unable to do so, [must] terminate engagements or seek additional human operator input before continuing the engagement.”

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#30    FlyingAngel

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:31 PM

View Postseeder, on 14 April 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

wall of text...
You are the one who should read properly. It clearly states that it can works independently without human intervention. It thinks like a human, that's where the problem is. Remember if a rat isn't fed well, it will "decide on its own" to destroy everything in path to search for food. Maybe you never saw a real rat destroy/steal something and think we live in a harmonic world if everything is under control.


Get to see the big picture. Don't just limited to a rat. No intelligence shall be higher than a human with the ability to make its own decision.

The last sentence doesn't mean anything. We are no God nor their parents to tell them they must do this, they must do that... It's a matter of time they start to question (because they can think) why should they follow the orders and have permissions to do something when they are able to do it without permission.

If this project succeed, it won't stop there, it won't just stop at the level of intelligence of a rat. They will keep on improving its intelligence until the day we won't have to do anything but just sit in a place and press some button and "wait them to follow orders".

If your parents get to tell you to do something you don't like, would you blindly follow and do it?

Edited by FlyingAngel, 14 April 2013 - 08:52 PM.





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