Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Germanic/Norse Religions...


  • Please log in to reply
63 replies to this topic

#61    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 15,969 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:10 AM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 21 April 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

@Mr Walker. Yes, I agree with you. I think I may have slightly misunderstood the sense of your post I quoted. Some of this is a struggle within our own minds between the rational and the irrational. We like the idea of (friendly) elves and such inhabiting our forests, but know in reality it is total nonsense. Sometimes.... :)
Yes; making paganism very hard for an individual mind  to truly accept in a modern world. But the idea of a god "out there somewhere", because we do not KNOW it is impossible via science, still is acceptable to us. (modern scientific thinking humans)

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#62    Tutankhaten-pasheri

Tutankhaten-pasheri

    Buratinologist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,637 posts
  • Joined:22 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:страна дураков

Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:31 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 23 April 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

I really have no care about people practicing Norse religion, or practicing the Jedi religion for that matter. What I was pointing out is that it is a reconstructed religion, and thus it will be subject to scrutiny of claims of unbroken worship for tens of thousands of years. Claiming some old sites, gods, ceremonies, festivals and customs as your own does not make an actual ancient religion. It creates a modern religion that mimics the ancient religion.

Do neo-Norse pagans believe they can only  get into Valhalla by dying in battle??
I have no idea because I am not Norse. Is there a difference between having a concept of going to Valhalla and of going to heaven?. I cannot answer for either religion. Also there is a presumption that Pagans have to "prove" themselves to Christians, to be as pedantic as many Christians, to be constantly quoting some book. Will not do this, Pagans have nothing to prove to anybody. As for Paganism mimiking an ancient religion, nobody that I know is under any doubt that modern Paganism is a new creation. The term neo is used, in my opinion, not in the sense of "new" but in the neo-nazi sense. Using "neo" conflates modern Paganism with fascists in the eye of the unknowing public, a public that has been subjected to Christian propaganda for millenia. I don't see why Paganism can be dismissed because it is being created from ruins, why is it not valid? can there only be Christianity? this seems to be the view here (Not yours, but generally on this froum) Why are we attacked so strongly by Christians, what do they fear? Not a specific question to you, just a general one that never seems to get any kind of answer.

PS, perhaps somebody who follows Asatru could contribute here as it is not my religion, I simply defend Pagans in general, and seemingly rather alone at times....

Edited to remove references to Isis, Horus, Osiris and Atenism as that is a complication too far on this thread :)

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 23 April 2013 - 07:30 AM.


#63    DieChecker

DieChecker

    I'm a Rogue Scholar

  • Member
  • 19,541 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon, USA

  • Hey, I'm not wrong. I'm just not completely right.

Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:42 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 23 April 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

I have no idea because I am not Norse. Is there a difference between having a concept of going to Valhalla and of going to heaven?. I cannot answer for either religion. Also there is a presumption that Pagans have to "prove" themselves to Christians, to be as pedantic as many Christians, to be constantly quoting some book. Will not do this, Pagans have nothing to prove to anybody. As for Paganism mimiking an ancient religion, nobody that I know is under any doubt that modern Paganism is a new creation. The term neo is used, in my opinion, not in the sense of "new" but in the neo-nazi sense. Using "neo" conflates modern Paganism with fascists in the eye of the unknowing public, a public that has been subjected to Christian propaganda for millenia. I don't see why Paganism can be dismissed because it is being created from ruins, why is it not valid? can there only be Christianity? this seems to be the view here (Not yours, but generally on this froum) Why are we attacked so strongly by Christians, what do they fear? Not a specific question to you, just a general one that never seems to get any kind of answer.

Who said it was invalid? Just call a modern religion based on an ancient religion what it is... a modern religion.

The difference between Valhalla and the Christian Heaven is that you had to die in a battle to go to Valhalla. A very specific occurance. I was just wondering it neo-Norse-pagans believed this? Because that would go Directly to whether they are following an ancient religion or a modern religion drawing on the ancient religion for insperation. If the Neo definition of Valhalla includes anyone who simply tries hard, then that is a new thing to the religion and not ancient.

True enough that Christianity has changed just as much, but that change is documented over time. Where is the Norse documentation of these changes over time? They simply don't exist, because the neo-Norse simply took what they liked... names, places, ceremonies, traditions... and mashed it together and just filled in the rest with what they liked....

And there is nothing wrong with that in reality. Just don't go around calling it ancient Norse, because it isn't.

It is like the language modern Hebrew, a hodge podge of everything ever recorded in the Hebrew language and using the pronunciation from Yiddish and Jewish liturgical sources. It is derived from ancient Hebrew and uses elements of it, but is a reincarnation, rather then a continuation.

Quote

The language's revival eventually brought linguistic additions with it. While the initial leaders of the process insisted they were only continuing "from the place where [Hebrew's] vitality was ended", what was created represented a broader basis of language acceptance; it includes characteristics derived from all periods of Hebrew language, as well as from the non-Hebrew languages used by the long-established European, North African, and Middle Eastern Jewish communities, with Yiddish (the European variant) being predominant.
http://en.wikipedia....Hebrew_language

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#64    Tutankhaten-pasheri

Tutankhaten-pasheri

    Buratinologist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,637 posts
  • Joined:22 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:страна дураков

Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:56 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 23 April 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

And there is nothing wrong with that in reality. Just don't go around calling it ancient Norse, because it isn't.

I quote myself

Quote

I have no idea because I am not Norse

and again

Quote

PS, perhaps somebody who follows Asatru could contribute here as it is not my religion, I simply defend Pagans in general, and seemingly rather alone at times....

I wish for $ everytime I have been mis-quoted on forum this past week :)

And generally for all. As I am clearly not understood in English, here is laid out some of what I believe, and only some, as there is sooo much more.
http://www.dazzle.ru/spec/ra.shtml

I'm sure google will give a great translation and nobody will have any problems properly understanding :)  I also thought to link to a site explaining humour, but that wouldn't be a joke here.... Posted Image

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 23 April 2013 - 09:24 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users