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Secret Soviet UFO studies revealed


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#61    Kludge808

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 05:27 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 17 April 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

I am only impressed by thing that can make 90 degree turn.
Helicopters impress you?

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#62    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:05 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 16 April 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

I would suggest you list them. UFO sites list anyone they can think of, some even say Buzz Aldrin saw a UFO on Apollo 11, yet even Buzz says that's horse hockey.

With regards to UFO sightings, indeed there is a common denominator of man, however, taking the equation further, man has a common denominator too - human error. Like how I call it "man" but spread the blame with error? :devil: That should give Bee a rise LOL.

Look at Hellyer. He is mad as a cut snake and I doubt anyone can prove otherwise. Have you read his nonsense? He even claims human and alien pilots have chats about flight manoeuvres. I mean fair go. Canadian Pollie, so he gets a wrap as trustworthy, so do all these officials, but when they say "no UFO" they are not to be trusted at all, and are automatically assumed to be lying! Talk about having a cake and eating it too! A UFO positive Pollie is salt of the earth, a UFO negative Pollie is a liar and in on the cover up. Seems a bridge to far to me.

Yeah, I know what the hell good is cake if you can't eat it, but you know what I mean.



Some say so, some admit not, but that - the people who say NO to aliens -  is not a bother. The news sources tell us Edgar Mitchell has inside information, but he does not. Haut claims he did not see a craft at Roswell, then he says he did see one, and the description he gave makes no sense. These people are all over the shop, in any other instance, such conflicting information would just be binned. It is only not so here because of the ET component and the woo woo websites.

Whether Buzz saw it  or not, whether Edgar Mitchell has inside info or not is irrelevant to people who've seen it. People that want to believe but haven't got the chance to see it obviously want to hear from prominent men such as Buzz, Mitchell and others. Can you blame them? it's human nature to seek people that can reinforce their belief. That's why "believers" like to hear from each others and skeptics like to hear from each others. We all know damn well we will go to our grave without knowing the truth, but it's entertaining to see the back and forth, doesn't it?


View Postpsyche101, on 16 April 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

You know I have had a sighting, and I expect ET to exist, and I think we can cross space, given time, yet still the nonsense that passes as the ETH is really nothing short of embarrassing to the species for the most part.

Well, i don't know about embarrassing, but it's certainly entertaining. Hatred, wars, oppression, starvation, exploitation should be the cause for embarrassment to our species.


View Postpsyche101, on 16 April 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

It could also be

Parallax Error
Distance (sound haas to travel)
Wind sheer
Local conditions
Atmospheric conditions

to name a few.But I think it is crazy to think the UFO phenomena has merely but one answer. If ET is any part of that, with all the possibilites out there, the proof must be tangible. All we see is evidence that is very, very loose.

I think we all can agree that ET is not the only answer. Not all UFOs are equal. A flying ball of plasma could very well be of different origin than a flying ball of steel. Well all want tangible evidence. I think that believers want this more than anyone. Can you imagine the frustration of people that know what they saw but have no evidence to back it up? I am sure they get p*** off at being called liar or dummy or "are prone to make believe". I certainly don't blame the believers for the lack of tangible evidence.


#63    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:10 AM

View PostKludge808, on 17 April 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

Helicopters impress you?

Nah, it's too noisy and have blades. And some even have little wings. I don't get impress by the long tail either. Please, If rockets aren't impressive to me, how can helicopter?


#64    Kludge808

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:18 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 17 April 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

Nah, it's too noisy and have blades. And some even have little wings. I don't get impress by the long tail either. Please, If rockets aren't impressive to me, how can helicopter?
Just curious since the only qualifier was the ability to make a right angle turn.  :whistle:

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#65    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:28 AM

View PostKludge808, on 17 April 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

Just curious since the only qualifier was the ability to make a right angle turn.  :whistle:

I take it back. Now that I think about it, helicopter actually impress me more than rockets. How can two small blades spinning like a fan can lift such heavy load. It's quite impressive. But not as impressive as a silent ball of metal making 90 degree turn at breakneck speed, though


#66    Kludge808

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:48 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 17 April 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

I take it back. Now that I think about it, helicopter actually impress me more than rockets. How can two small blades spinning like a fan can lift such heavy load. It's quite impressive. But not as impressive as a silent ball of metal making 90 degree turn at breakneck speed, though
Good point.  I've never seen the latter, although I have seen things I couldn't identify in the air.

BTW, as a fixed wing pilot, I have a natural distrust of anything where the wings aren't solidly attached to the aircraft but rather go dancing about overhead. :D ;)

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#67    S2F

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:52 AM

View PostKludge808, on 17 April 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

Good point.  I've never seen the latter, although I have seen things I couldn't identify in the air.

BTW, as a fixed wing pilot, I have a natural distrust of anything where the wings aren't solidly attached to the aircraft but rather go dancing about overhead. :D ;)

What about the unholy b****** child that is the V-22? :P

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#68    quillius

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:14 AM

View PostEsoteric Toad, on 16 April 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

I believe the sightings occurred because of the cold war and the tech that was being developed. Then there was a sort of mass hysteria as people started paying attention to the sky where as in the past it was just a background to everything. Even today I'll bet not many people really bother to truly LOOK at the sky except when weather threatens or a plane/helicopter is buzzing around. So many things in the sky to be observed and so many people back then itching to see aliens (prosaic things). Sounds like an environment ripe for misinterpretation. Then the close encounter stories could simply be overactive imaginations which later fueled the dubious to make some money.

Since, to the best of my humble knowledge, there is nothing concrete to prove ships are visiting or ever have I'll keep waiting for solid verifiable evidence.

Edited for thinking I needed to edit it but I didn't although it probably needs to be edited in some fashion.

I agree that they spike in sightings certainly were because of the cold war and new tech/weaponary. However this could simply mean the spike occured because of 'misinterpretations' that were far more possible OR its the reason the curiosity of our ET friends peaked again resulting in increase in sightings.....maybe a combination of both :)

as for the following comment 'Then the close encounter stories could simply be overactive imaginations which later fueled the dubious to make some money'

I dont know about that, I think we have a few cases that suggest it cannot be an over active imagination.. :alien: ..at least not without the aid of an induced hallucination.

oh and the editing....I agree with Kludge in that it did somehow make sense and it made me smile for some strange reason.. :tu:


#69    quillius

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:16 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 17 April 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

I take it back. Now that I think about it, helicopter actually impress me more than rockets. How can two small blades spinning like a fan can lift such heavy load. It's quite impressive. But not as impressive as a silent ball of metal making 90 degree turn at breakneck speed, though

Hey SGB, have you ever spoken with Sweetpumper about your sighting?.....He too seemed to have an identical experience to yourself......

also excuse me but I dont recall, have you ever spoken in detail about your sighting here at UM?


#70    psyche101

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 09:16 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 17 April 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

Whether Buzz saw it  or not, whether Edgar Mitchell has inside info or not is irrelevant to people who've seen it.

But did you not say that prominent people would not be wrong about seeing such? I was just pointing that they have not seen such, but the papers say they have.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 17 April 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

People that want to believe but haven't got the chance to see it obviously want to hear from prominent men such as Buzz, Mitchell and others. Can you blame them? it's human nature to seek people that can reinforce their belief.

Exactly, an appeal to authority, which illustrates there is little if anything to these public claims from prominent people.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 17 April 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

That's why "believers" like to hear from each others and skeptics like to hear from each others. We all know damn well we will go to our grave without knowing the truth, but it's entertaining to see the back and forth, doesn't it?

I do not care if one is a believer or skeptic. One of my favourite posters is a believer. I only want to know the facts. If the facts ever say an Alien spaceship landed here, I will be suitably impressed.

Sometimes it is entertaining, sometimes frustrating, sometimes dead boring and sometimes plain stupid. Have you read the rock thread? It's claims illustrate as dumb as one can get.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 17 April 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

Well, i don't know about embarrassing, but it's certainly entertaining. Hatred, wars, oppression, starvation, exploitation should be the cause for embarrassment to our species.

Read the rock thread on that one. The consider Zecheriah Stitichin, George Adamski, Bob Lazar, Greer Hoagland................... and then do you still hold the same opinion?

I would call such bad management of the human species shame not embarrassment. But that is a multi faceted conversation.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 17 April 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

I think we all can agree that ET is not the only answer. Not all UFOs are equal. A flying ball of plasma could very well be of different origin than a flying ball of steel. Well all want tangible evidence. I think that believers want this more than anyone. Can you imagine the frustration of people that know what they saw but have no evidence to back it up? I am sure they get p*** off at being called liar or dummy or "are prone to make believe". I certainly don't blame the believers for the lack of tangible evidence.

Indeed, but that does not make it alien either, it makes it a mystery. Alien is not the default answer for "I do not know"

People who get called a liar and a dummy often deserve to be, and ruin it for everyone. Look at this very forum. One thread might be filled with fascinating facts and very good information, whilst another plods along asking the same damne question for 800 pages. The credulous borrow form the sensible, and they borrow too much. It tips the scales, and UFO research tends to get burdened with this weight. That is why I always say there are 2 types of believer, one is quite credible and well respected, the other ................................ not so much. AKA FTB's.
One will not get called a lair or a dummy for a benign description, and they say "I do not know, but I cannot identify this" as opposed to people who claim to have been taken to other systems and back in sporty little sports spaceships in a night, or that Aliens came here to have sex with them. Any person in their right mind can see these outrageous claims are rubbish.
It is indeed hard to find that personal line, and that is why I tend to leave personal cases alone for the larger part, you wont see me going into abductee threads or the like and calling people liars. I tend to just avoid them, and mostly only tear down larger official claims that some pretend they can evidence, when they can not, and having walked this path for some decades now, I often know immediately if the case is genuine, in doubt or a complete mystery. If I have not heard of the instance, then I have something to investigate, and I like that.

Edited by psyche101, 17 April 2013 - 09:18 AM.

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#71    S2F

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 03:21 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 17 April 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

I do not care if one is a believer or skeptic. One of my favourite posters is a believer.

Hmmm, I guess I'm a believer now, I had no idea... :hmm:

:lol: :P

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#72    topsecretresearch

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 09:21 PM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 17 April 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

Whether Buzz saw it  or not, whether Edgar Mitchell has inside info or not is irrelevant to people who've seen it. People that want to believe but haven't got the chance to see it obviously want to hear from prominent men such as Buzz, Mitchell and others. Can you blame them? it's human nature to seek people that can reinforce their belief. That's why "believers" like to hear from each others and skeptics like to hear from each others. We all know damn well we will go to our grave without knowing the truth, but it's entertaining to see the back and forth, doesn't it?

Disagree with this. Gordon Cooper's testimony for example reflects what others have observed. You can try and shoot the messenger being a cover-up type like James/Jim Oberg but there are still UFO commonalities. People are reporting similar things.

Do people especially these days really idolize astronauts and want to believe their every word? I don't think so. Space for the most part is very uninteresting and boring. It's a very uninhabitale environment. You have to be really into space to find the ISS or some astronaut interetsing these days. It's about as interesting as a sicence fair project to most young people. It's more like UFO testimony from astronauts fits a bigger picture of UFO sightings, what people are seeing, and that we are being visited and there is also a cover-up. The government is not being very truthful. That how most people see astronaut UFO testimony.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 17 April 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

I think we all can agree that ET is not the only answer. Not all UFOs are equal. A flying ball of plasma could very well be of different origin than a flying ball of steel. Well all want tangible evidence. I think that believers want this more than anyone. Can you imagine the frustration of people that know what they saw but have no evidence to back it up? I am sure they get p*** off at being called liar or dummy or "are prone to make believe". I certainly don't blame the believers for the lack of tangible evidence.

The No Evidence Fallacy Argument

The lack of proof argument is often used by those who seem to have a lack of knowledge about what is being reported. If you look at UFO cases there are ET indicators pointing to a space faring species. Ted Phillips for example has investigated many landing trace cases. In some of these cases the soil appears to be dehydrated. There have also been many UFO related injuries. Radiation sickness type symptoms, burns, eye injuries from close exposure to the craft. People report a glow or plasma effect. EM effects. All of this can give a person a strong indicator as to where these craft may be coming from especially if the occupants do not appear to be very human and the craft shoots straight up in the sky like a bullet.  

Look at Charles Darwin's prediction of the Xanthopan morgani. Charles Darwin accurately predicted the existance of moth with a very long tongue from looking at an orchids.

From his observations and experiments with pushing a probe into the spur of the flower, Darwin surmised in his 1862 book Fertilisation of Orchids that there must be a pollinator moth with a proboscis long enough to reach the nectar at the end of the spur. In its attempt to get the nectar at the end of the spur the moth would get pollen rubbed off on its head. The next orchid it visited would then be pollinated in the same manner.
In 1903, such a moth was discovered in Madagascar. It was described as a sub-species of the African hawk moth and named Xanthopan morganii praedicta. The subspecific epithet "praedicta" was given in honor of the fact that Darwin had predicted its existence,

So there may be a lot of indicators pointing to ET. This could be reflected in observation and physical trace evidece. Just because an actual alien object is not made available to the public, instead kept under wraps as top secret foreign technology, doesn't mean aliens are not coming here. There may be enough indicators that it is most likely the case.

Edited by topsecretresearch, 17 April 2013 - 09:43 PM.


#73    S2F

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 09:47 PM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 17 April 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

The No Evidence Fallacy Argument

The lack of proof argument is often used by those who seem to have a lack of knowledge about what is being reported. If you look at UFO cases there are ET indicators pointing to a space faring species. Ted Phillips for example has investigated many landing trace cases. In some of these cases the soil appears to be dehydrated. There have also been many UFO related injuries. Radiation sickness type symptoms, burns, eye injuries from close exposure to the craft. People report a glow or plasma effect. EM effects. All of this can give a person a strong indicator as to where these craft may be coming from especially if the occupants do not appear very human and the craft shoot straight up in the sky like a bullet.  

It sounds like someone tried to take the intellectual high road and came out bass ackwards. According to this so called logic I can argue that the moon most definitely IS made out of cheese and the lack of evidence to support that claim is of no consequence which renders the claim legitimate. :huh:

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#74    psyche101

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 12:46 AM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 17 April 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

Hmmm, I guess I'm a believer now, I had no idea... :hmm:

:lol: :P


Well, I did say one of, not the best one of all :tu:

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But lets upgrade it :D


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Edited by psyche101, 18 April 2013 - 12:46 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#75    Kludge808

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:52 AM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 17 April 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Disagree with this. Gordon Cooper's testimony for example reflects what others have observed. You can try and shoot the messenger being a cover-up type like James/Jim Oberg but there are still UFO commonalities. People are reporting similar things.
People report sightings of Bigfoot, Santa Claus, Elvis and even Jesus too.  Your point being?

Quote

Do people especially these days really idolize astronauts and want to believe their every word? I don't think so. Space for the most part is very uninteresting and boring. It's a very uninhabitale environment.  You have to be really into space to find the ISS or some astronaut interetsing these days. It's about as interesting as a sicence fair project to most young people.
And you have definite statistics to prove all this statement, right?  See, your second sentence says it all, that this is all in your opinion rather than based in provable facts.  It's you who finds space boring and are projecting your feelings on everyone else.

Quote

It's more like UFO testimony from astronauts fits a bigger picture of UFO sightings, what people are seeing, and that we are being visited and there is also a cover-up. The government is not being very truthful. That how most people see astronaut UFO testimony.
Again, "most people"?  Even astronaut testimony consists of extraordinary claims that requires extraordinary proof.  Oh, wait.  There's a cover up, a conspiracy - or a lot of them, more like.  We can't provide proof because it's all under wraps ... of which we also don't have proof so we just have to take you FTBs' word for it.

Quote

The lack of proof argument is often used by those who seem to have a lack of knowledge about what is being reported.
The lack of proof argument is being used by folks who demand that aforementioned extraordinary proof, none of which is forthcoming.  Your claim that we don't review the reports is a fallacy that comes from ignorance of anything beyond your very narrow point of view.  Of course, that you have woo woo sites in your sig says a lot too, ones with a name that suggests that what's presented is some order of secret or another.  It sounds good, though, doesn't it.  It makes the FTBs think you actually have something no one else knows - or even cares about.  If it were all that secret, do you think da ebil lyin' gummint would let you keep it up?  It's all about as secret as my recipe for ketchup and significantly less tasty.

Quote

If you look at UFO cases there are ET indicators pointing to a space faring species.
Have you ever gone out and done any investigation your self - boots on the ground at various sites?  Nah, didn't think so.  You should try it some time.  It's quite educational.  This is especially true if you're with people who actually know what they're looking at and have no vested interest in whether or not it had anything to do with UFOs, aliens or their great aunt Minny.

Anyway, the only people that see these "indicators" are FTBs.  No one else.  And they're pointed out by other FTBs.  Get a real hardline investigator like Quillius, who is a believer just not one who accepts things as easily as you do, involved and they suddenly poof away.

Quote

Look at Charles Darwin's prediction of the Xanthopan morgani. Charles Darwin accurately predicted the existance of moth with a very long tongue from looking at an orchids.
Okay, and your point is?

Quote

So there may be a lot of indicators pointing to ET. This could be reflected in observation and physical trace evidece. Just because an actual alien object is not made available to the public, instead kept under wraps as top secret foreign technology, doesn't mean aliens are not coming here. There may be enough indicators that it is most likely the case.
Oh, so maybe you're not so certain after all.  Look at all the waffles that say you really don't have anything except speculation.  And, again, you have no real proof because of da ebil lyin' gummint hiding stuff ... of which you have absolutely no evidence let alone proof.  All you have is belief which makes it come on like a religion since religions don't need proof, just belief.  Darwin had hard facts & evidence.  You don't.  Oh, I forgot.  All your "hard facts & evidence" is under wraps by da ebil lyin' gummint.  How convenient.

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