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Myths busted, hoaxes exposed.


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#31    Saru

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 02:33 PM

It's not really practical to have a single thread containing details of every hoax that's ever been.

Some potential problems:

- Disagreements over what constitutes 'confirmed hoax' on some topics
- Stifling of original discussion by just referring everyone to this one thread
- Negativity aimed at members who haven't checked the thread before posting
- Lack of organization, no clear formatting will make for a messy thread
- Difficult to find specific things within the thread
- Sending visitors off to other sites for info is somewhat self-defeating

Also we get people asking for threads to be pinned all the time so we generally only do so on very rare occasions.

A thread dedicating to collating hoax cases is a nice idea but very problematic to implement in practice.


#32    Hazzard

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 08:15 AM

A rational explanation - However tenuous - Has far more empirical value than the hare-brained hysterical nonsense that believers in the paranormal would have you believe.

Take this 'out-there' response to a skeptical analysis of the "Flatwoods Monster".

http://www.skepticfo...php?f=7&t=19266

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#33    Vidgange

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 09:53 AM

View PostSaru, on 28 April 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

It's not really practical to have a single thread containing details of every hoax that's ever been.

Some potential problems:

- Disagreements over what constitutes 'confirmed hoax' on some topics
- Stifling of original discussion by just referring everyone to this one thread
- Negativity aimed at members who haven't checked the thread before posting
- Lack of organization, no clear formatting will make for a messy thread
- Difficult to find specific things within the thread
- Sending visitors off to other sites for info is somewhat self-defeating

Also we get people asking for threads to be pinned all the time so we generally only do so on very rare occasions.

A thread dedicating to collating hoax cases is a nice idea but very problematic to implement in practice.

While I do agree that a topic like this could potentially be a complicated thing, I also think it is a manageable one. Let me address your points:

We could have two categories of hoaxes, each discussed in the first and second post in the thread: the first post has confirmed hoaxes and faked pictures/videos, while the second post could contain debatable/unconfirmed "evidence". For instance, the surgeon's photo of the Loch Ness would fall into the first post of Confirmed Hoaxes, as would the Gable Film, and all the various photoshoped photos. The second post would contain pictures/videos of suspected ha hoaxes, but without any evidence to back it up. Now, we wouldn't include the Paterson Film in this category (or similarly debated "evidence") since we have no concrete evidence for or against it. We would include pictures and videos we all take for granted that they are fakes, but we don't have evidence of this.

While discussion might be stifled, we might also see less "trash threads", so to speak. We wouldn't have to get as many "have you guys seen this!?"-threads where everyone commenting simply says "It's a confirmed hoax". I don't think a thread like this would stifle the discussion per say, since new photos and videos wouldn't be posted there, UNTIL they are confirmed (or strongly thought to be) hoaxes/fakes. All we might take away from the discussion here is the "already confirmed fakes"-threads.

While we might see some negativity towards members posting confirmed hoaxes and asking about them, wouldn't it be a great idea to guide them to a thread containing all the fakes we, as a community, can come to think off? This way, unknowing members/posters might learn a great many things - not only about the hoax they themselves are interested in, but also about a lot of other hoaxes. And I don't think we'll see a lot of negativity. I'm pretty sure that we'll mostly see comments like "Check out the hoax-thread; you'll find this picture there. It's a hoax"

What I think is the most important part of a possible hoax-thread is the first posts, and that they get updated with new information, when they are available. A thread like this could contain discussions about known hoaxes, and about what constitutes a hoax, and things like that. The most important thing is to gather the known hoaxes in the first post, so it gets very easy and accessible for everyone to find the fakes. The rest of the thread could be left for discussion, and posting questions about pictures/videos if you are curious to know if it could be a fake...

And we don't necessarily have to gather information about the hoaxes on other sites; all we have to do is to have a picture and/or a video of the known hoax with maybe a short text with information. Let's use the surgeon's photo as an example yet again; there is conclusive information that this picture in fact is a hoax, so let's just show the photo, name it and maybe (but necessarily) write a short text about it. A lot of times people just wanna know if a vid/pic is in fact a hoax. If they want more information about the hoax they could ask us, or google for further information....

I hope that wall of text makes sense....

EDIT: We could just name it "Well known hoaxes and fakes", so that we don't have to post EVERY fake/hoax there.... Just, the most well known.... I think the pictures of American civil war soldiers posting with a pterodactyl would be a good example of confirmed hoaxes, or suspected hoaxes that would fit very nicely in a thread like this.

Edited by Vidgange, 29 April 2013 - 09:58 AM.

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#34    Saru

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 06:30 PM

We already have a catalogue of commonly distributed cryptozoological images with statuses to indicate known hoaxes:
http://www.unexplain...gical-mysteries

Out of those that aren't included, most are not posted due to copyright concerns.


#35    wolfknight

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 06:39 PM

Cool site


#36    Domina Lucis

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:13 AM

Too bad. But I can understand why the thread wouldn't work.

I just want to point out that creepypasta are not real as well. It's frustrating to see people claim they've seen Slenderman or some other creepypasta creature.

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#37    Vidgange

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:41 AM

View PostSaru, on 29 April 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

We already have a catalogue of commonly distributed cryptozoological images with statuses to indicate known hoaxes:
http://www.unexplain...gical-mysteries

Out of those that aren't included, most are not posted due to copyright concerns.

Oh I browsed through those images quite a few times! But, I don't think it's really the same thing. You have to go through A LOT of pictures just to see what's a fake, and what's real. I still think it would be a good idea to have a sticky here in the crypto department to show what pic/vids we know is hoaxes/fakes. I have watched youtube-vids and wondered to myself "Is that fake? It must be! Right...?" So a thread like the one we are discussing would be a great idea imho.

EDIT: Perhaps you could have a category called "Hoaxes/Fakes" just like you have categories like "Big Foot" and "Sea Monsters"??

Edited by Vidgange, 30 April 2013 - 07:42 AM.

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#38    DBunker

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 01:46 AM


7 Lamest Yet Widely Believed Cryptozoological Hoaxes http://www.environme...al-hoaxes/16680


Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#39    Vidgange

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 08:13 AM

That's so stupid ^^

I have a question... I've really been looking into Bigfoot lately, and stumbled upon Philip Morris talking about how they faked the PG film... Now, I've seen Bob Heironimus re-enact the Patty walk, and it doesn't look too convincing. But apparently both Philip and Bob was featured in some documentary about this (alleged?) hoax, where they re-enacted the whole footage of the PG film, but I haven't been able to see this re-enactment. Is there any thoughts on this around here?

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#40    Domina Lucis

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 03:59 PM

View PostVidgange, on 08 May 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

That's so stupid ^^

I have a question... I've really been looking into Bigfoot lately, and stumbled upon Philip Morris talking about how they faked the PG film... Now, I've seen Bob Heironimus re-enact the Patty walk, and it doesn't look too convincing. But apparently both Philip and Bob was featured in some documentary about this (alleged?) hoax, where they re-enacted the whole footage of the PG film, but I haven't been able to see this re-enactment. Is there any thoughts on this around here?

The PG film is really tricky. Many people have claimed that they've had a part in the film, mostly people saying that they were the person in the Bigfoot suit. And then other people point the finger the other way saying stuff like the Bigfoot walk can't be replicated and other things like that. With no way to really prove anything, it is debated and unknown as to what is genuine and what is a hoax.

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#41    scowl

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:21 PM

It's a bad sign when the existence of a species hinges on whether or not a person can walk a certain way wearing a costume.


#42    Domina Lucis

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:52 PM

View Postscowl, on 09 May 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

It's a bad sign when the existence of a species hinges on whether or not a person can walk a certain way wearing a costume.

I couldn't agree more.

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#43    Hazzard

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 06:58 AM

View Postscowl, on 09 May 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

It's a bad sign when the existence of a species hinges on whether or not a person can walk a certain way wearing a costume.

Absolutely.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke




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