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Applicants wanted for one-way ticket to Mars.

mars settlers

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#121    Occams Razor

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:05 PM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 25 April 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

So you don't believe in exploring strange new worlds, then, or would you be content to rely on second-hand pictures from robots, and remain tied to this planet for ever and never find out what's next door (since even robots or Rovers can never be a substitute for actually going somewhere and seeing it hands-on for yourself).

I certainly do believe the human race race should expand beyond the Earth, we'll have to. However, this should be done when we're technologically ready, when we can mount realistic human expeditions with the technology to return if we wish, and have the technology to create a realistic human habitat on another world. Currently we are not technologically ready, not by a long chalk.

I think the first off world human habitat will be on the moon, it will be done by one of the superpowers, most likely the USA, and regardless of who builds it, it will be a helium 3 mining operation.

Edited by Occams Razor, 28 April 2013 - 01:10 PM.


#122    freetoroam

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:26 PM

View PostOccams Razor, on 28 April 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

I certainly do believe the human race race should expand beyond the Earth, we'll have to. However, this should be done when we're technologically ready, when we can mount realistic human expeditions with the technology to return if we wish, and have the technology to create a realistic human habitat on another world. Currently we are not technologically ready, not by a long chalk.

I think the first off world human habitat will be on the moon, it will be done by one of the superpowers, most likely the USA, and regardless of who builds it, it will be a helium 3 mining operation.
I agree on exploring other planets and the Universe, but it saddens me to think that the reason why humans should expand beyond Earth is because we HAVE to, this means one thing to me, we have wreaked the life out of this one. I would rather think it was because we wanted to, not because we have to.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#123    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:50 PM

Quote

I certainly do believe the human race race should expand beyond the Earth, we'll have to. However, this should be done when we're technologically ready, when we can mount realistic human expeditions with the technology to return if we wish, and have the technology to create a realistic human habitat on another world. Currently we are not technologically ready, not by a long chalk.

I think the first off world human habitat will be on the moon, it will be done by one of the superpowers, most likely the USA, and regardless of who builds it, it will be a helium 3 mining operation.

And we'll never be technologically ready unless we actually start doing it. The first colonies anywhere will be risky opperations and people will die. But if we press on and keep at it, they will succeed. I for one will envy those first human pioneers. They'll be doing something that most people are too scared/lazy/unlucky to ever accomplish imho. Cheers.


#124    Occams Razor

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:55 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 25 April 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

There is nothing "hair - brained" about this scheme...it just takes a Leap of Imagination that is beyond the grasp of most folk. Think back to the Gemini and Apollo programmes: the Astronauts involved risked their lives every time they went into Space. They knew the dangers, they knew that what they were doing was inherently inimicable to life.... but they still went.

Were these Sociopaths, saddled with an "Emperor Syndrome"? Not one of them. They were explorers and adventurers to a man. If we were to apply your criteria to these heroes then we have to call them mentally challenged.

I dont think you linked to the website, had you done so then you would realise that they MUST leave their habitations in order to survive and build the first outpost. This is a programme beyond the understanding of a lot of people which informs the "Narrow" mindedness of such folk. Sure, life on Earth would be vastly more comfortable, do your job for 40+ yrs, retire to a Condo in Florida, and reflect on the fact that your contribution to Humankind Advancement had little or no significance.

Absolute twaddle.

With regard Gemini and Apollo...

1) They fully expected to survive and see their families and friends again, they fully expected to drive their corvettes to the beach again etc.

2) The missions were of a finite duration, not one way to oblivion.

3) Anyone can put up with someone for a few hours, a few days, or even a week. Not indefinitely.

4) Of course I don't think these astronauts were mentally challenged. I think if you asked any Gemini or Apollo astronaut if they were prepared to go on a one-way trip to Mars they would have all declined.

There is no comparison between a one way trip to Mars and the Gemini and Apollo missions.To call this nonsense hair-brained is to be over complimentary in the extreme.

You seem to think that going outside of the habitat and building their own individual dwellings would be like doing it here on Earth, just get some rocks, build some walls, make some kind of roof, wait a minute, it's a bit dark, I need some windows. I'll just go and dig up some sand, make a furnace, make some oxygen so that it will burn, and melt the sand, assuming there is some sand, into glass. What would you use for fuel, collect some logs, it's laughable. It would be beyond extremely difficult. You would have to do your construction work in a space suit, with no vehicles, where would you get your materials? Your dwelling would have to be air-tight, radiation proof, capable of producing breathable air, drinkable water and useful food. You wouldn't have a flush toilet, you would have to make your own toilet paper, you would have to make your own electricity. You wouldn't be able to pop down to the hardware store for some materials or tools or some nuts and bolts, you would't be able to run a generator to power tools.

You wouldn't be able to pop down the mall for some milk, or custard, or fruit, or new clothes, you would have to make them... with what, you would have to make the materials... with what?

You would never drive a car, or swim, or go to watch a football match, or a play, or a rock concert, or go to a nice restaurant for a meal etc etc etc ever again.

You would have to be seriously deranged to even consider it. It's just an expensive way to commit suicide, nothing more.

If you give it a go be sure and let us all know how you get on, send us a postcard. I think it's your understanding and imagination that's severely lacking.

Edited by Occams Razor, 28 April 2013 - 01:58 PM.


#125    Occams Razor

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 02:03 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 28 April 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

I agree on exploring other planets and the Universe, but it saddens me to think that the reason why humans should expand beyond Earth is because we HAVE to, this means one thing to me, we have wreaked the life out of this one. I would rather think it was because we wanted to, not because we have to.

We have to because the Sun has a finite fuel supply. If we are Earth bound we die with the Sun when it runs out of fuel.


#126    Occams Razor

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 02:07 PM

View PostBavarian Raven, on 28 April 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

And we'll never be technologically ready unless we actually start doing it. The first colonies anywhere will be risky opperations and people will die. But if we press on and keep at it, they will succeed. I for one will envy those first human pioneers. They'll be doing something that most people are too scared/lazy/unlucky to ever accomplish imho. Cheers.

We certainly do need to establish off world colonies, but it has to be realistic, we're just not ready to do it yet. This one-way trip to Mars is just ridiculous. I still think it's an investment con, just like mining asteroids.


#127    freetoroam

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 02:10 PM

View PostOccams Razor, on 28 April 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

We have to because the Sun has a finite fuel supply. If we are Earth bound we die with the Sun when it runs out of fuel.
In 1.1 billion years from now, the Sun will be 10% brighter than it is today. This extra energy will cause a moist greenhouse effect in the beginning, similar to the runaway warming on Venus. But then the Earth’s atmosphere will dry out as the water vapor is lost to space, never to return.
In 3.5 billion years from now, the Sun will be 40% brighter than it is today. It will be so hot that the oceans will boil and that water vapor will be lost to space as well. The ice caps will permanently melt, and snow will be ancient history; life will be unable to survive anywhere on the surface of the Earth. The Earth will resemble dry hot Venus.

Source: Universe Today

=====================================================



We still got time left for that, man is more likely to destroy this planet himself before the sun does.



Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 28 April 2013 - 05:03 PM.
Added source link. From the rules: 2c. Plagiarism and copyright: If you quote text from an external web site then please always provide a source link.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#128    Occams Razor

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:25 AM

Ok, I'll admit it, I'm bored. Bored enough to look at Mars-One's website.

I thought it was absolutely hilarious! I enjoyed looking at some of the one-minute application videos, but didn't find one person on there that I would like to be stuck in a confined space with for a few minutes, let-alone forever.

The first thing that sprang to mind is... many have not thought about this at all, many list their interests as swimming, skiing, horse riding, surfing, driving their cars etc etc etc. All outdoor pursuits that they will never, ever be doing again. I'll say it again... anyone home? Not that this will bother Mr Lansdorp of course as he has already collected application fees from them all.

Go to the Mars-One applications site and take a look at these examples:

There is Dr Leila from the USA, an ER doc, someone who you would hope would be reasonably intelligent, two of her listed interests are skiing and biking, good luck to her patients!

Then there is the witty and charming Torben from Germany, take a look at the bands he likes.

The seriously on-the-ball Kobus from South Africa who thinks living on Mars will be so much better than sitting in traffic and his work cubicle for the next 40 years. Go Kobus!

Then there is Allen Clarke from Australia who looks like he has just walked off the set of the movie Wolf Creek. Wouldn't you just love to be stuck in a confined space with him forever.

And William James Verga, who tells us what a nice guy he is whilst wearing a T shirt covered in skulls. His subconsious is screaming something entirely different methinks. He also likes to study alien life, where did he get his alien life samples I wonder.

There are many, many more, one is 71 years old now and would be 81 at launch if he were selected.

The whole idea of an interplanetary Big-Brother where no-one can be evicted would get stale very quickly and the TV money would evapourate. Not that it really matters of course, as it will never happen. All that will happen for sure is Mr Lansdorp will retire early with a pile of investors money and would-be astronaut application fees.

There are, as far as I know, no technical specs available, nothing that shows the power requirements, how much power would be required to supply the peak and average loads for heating, cooling, lighting, cooking, production of air, recycling waste, growing food, charging rovers, communications and entertainment systems, not to mention all of the cameras and other Big-Brother video processing and transmission equipment. Cooking would have to be electric as you couldn't operate a gas cooker, even assuming you could extract methane from the Martian atmosphere to fuel it, you would need an air rather than oxygen atmosphere otherwise you would strike a match and that would be that, boom. Do they intend the habitat to be solar powered, have they calculated the capacity of the battery banks required to store the energy when the solar panels are in darkness, or are they thinking of a radio-thermic generator similar to the units used on deep space missions like Voyager. Do they have a nuts-and-bolts list of proposed equipment and the spares for it all. Will the colonists have the skill set to accurately diagnose and repair faults on the many electrical, electronic and mechanical systems. Especially when you consider the TV audience will supposedly get to choose who goes. If their main comms link to Earth fails and they can't fix it for whatever reason they will have no internet, no TV, no movies. What do they have in mind regarding radiation shielding, what fail-safe back-up arrangements have they made for the many life-support systems. I look forward to seeing some detailed technical information some time in the future, what do you think my chances are of ever seeing any.

Radio conversations with Earth would not be practical due to the time delay, and what exactly do they have in mind for food production, they wouldn't have any red meat, they may be able to grow fish in a tank I suppose but they will need a lot of water. They will need a lot of water anyway for washing and growing vegetables, and how do they know it's where the habitat will be set up, if it is there it will be in the form of ice so again power will be required to melt it. A colonists life would depend on every other member of the crew not making a mistake, their life would be in the hands of others 24/7 for its entire duration.

I could go on and on but to be honest I'm surprised I managed to remain interested enough in this nonsense to type this much.

Just one more thing, has anyone on here actually applied and submitted an application video?

Oh, and to Freetoroam, yes I know we have a lot of time before we have to worry about the Sun, well assuming they have their sums right anyway, and I'm sure we'll crack interplanetary and even inter-stellar travel with plenty of time to spare, so as a species I think we'll be fine.

Edited by Occams Razor, 29 April 2013 - 04:45 AM.


#129    DONTEATUS

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 02:57 AM

We should still Go and Do this ! ITs mans way of knowing He can ! By Doing !

This is a Work in Progress!

#130    shaddow134

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:36 PM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 30 April 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

We should still Go and Do this ! ITs mans way of knowing He can ! By Doing !

Yes,there should be missions to mars,but to think they can send a one way mission and set up a working colony is pure fantasy and basically beyond all realms of reality.

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#131    JesseCuster

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 06:38 PM

View PostOccams Razor, on 28 April 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

3) Anyone can put up with someone for a few hours, a few days, or even a week. Not indefinitely.
Submarine crews, ISS astronauts and Scott-Amundsen overwinter scientists live together for months at a time in a confined place they can't leave.  The MARS-500 experiment involved 6 people confined to a 180 square meter mock Mars base for 18 months.

Yes, it's not indefinite, but it's a hell of a lot longer than "even a week".

Because they could be held liable for loss of life if they are negligent, I doubt that Mars One are picking their astronauts like Big Brother picks their contestants - pick the nuttiest ones who will provide the most entertainment value.  They should have psychologically stable, physically fit professionals from backgrounds like engineering, science and medicine, just like the kind of people who are picked and trained to be astronauts and end up on the ISS.

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#132    Occams Razor

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 03:57 PM

View PostArchimedes, on 30 April 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Submarine crews, ISS astronauts and Scott-Amundsen overwinter scientists live together for months at a time in a confined place they can't leave.  The MARS-500 experiment involved 6 people confined to a 180 square meter mock Mars base for 18 months.

18 months is no-where near indefinitely is it. And the result of the Mars-500 experiment was boredom and depression among some crew members wasn't it. Bear in mind too that they didn't have to suffer 38% gravity.

Yes, it's not indefinite, but it's a hell of a lot longer than "even a week".

I said people could put up with other people in a confined space for a week, wakey-wakey.

Because they could be held liable for loss of life if they are negligent, I doubt that Mars One are picking their astronauts like Big Brother picks their contestants - pick the nuttiest ones who will provide the most entertainment value.  They should have psychologically stable, physically fit professionals from backgrounds like engineering, science and medicine, just like the kind of people who are picked and trained to be astronauts and end up on the ISS.

Mars-One have stated that the "astronauts" will be picked "Big-Brother" style by the viewing audience. No-one who is psychologically stable would even consider this. Certainly if this mission did go ahead, and in my humble opinion it won't, they will need people that can fix electrical, mechanical, electronic, communication and biological systems.

I may have said this on this site before but I'll say it again, I've looked at quite a few of the Mars-One 70 second "astronaut " application videos and most of them haven't got a clue as to what they would be signing up for. Almost all of them list their interests as outdoor activities like hiking, mountain biking, football, swimming, sailing, snorkelling, skiing, travelling, sports and running etc etc etc. They're completely clueless, they really think it would be an adventure. The reality would be they would be watching 3 other people die of boredom whilst sitting in a tin can, and this could take years. And can you imagine the smell, 4 people living in a small tin can on a diet of home grown vegetables, phew! This smell would be made worse as boredom and depression set in and people let their personal hygiene slip. It would smell like a cheap gym in no time.

The Martian laws would be up to the Martian colonists, they would just make them up as they went along, but who would enforce them? Who would choose who would enforce them? The whole thing is nonsense. The only legal problems I can see Mars-One having are financial, every-one involved will wan't their money back when it all falls in a heap and Lansdorp & Co disappear with all the cash. Has anyone noticed they've raided the SpaceX 'props' cupboard for their posters etc. Very convincing... I don't think.

Edited by Occams Razor, 01 May 2013 - 04:15 PM.


#133    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:38 PM

View Postseeder, on 25 April 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

so? at least they were on their home planet with food water, gravity, sunshine, AND OTHER PEOPLE ... so whats your point exctly?
it was the same thing, effectively. In the 17th c., crossing from Europe to America was pretty much setting foot in a different world. They could hardly pop back home if they'd had enough.  And the only other people were the people they came there with, so it was effectively the same as this idea (since, obviously, the Native Americans were hardly much company.)

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#134    DONTEATUS

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:02 PM

Your missing the point all together here,Mars One is a One way trip ,for only the Fittest bravest lot,Even If it became a total failure It would be mans best attempt to start the Voyage of Our Future Adventures In the Solar System ! So what we loose a few ,we learn a lot every time we extend our reach !
Somebody is always going to get burnt a few times !
I would go in a heart beat !

This is a Work in Progress!

#135    Occams Razor

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:28 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 01 May 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

it was the same thing, effectively. In the 17th c., crossing from Europe to America was pretty much setting foot in a different world. They could hardly pop back home if they'd had enough.  And the only other people were the people they came there with, so it was effectively the same as this idea (since, obviously, the Native Americans were hardly much company.)

No, there is no comparison whatsoever between Europeans migrating to America and what Mars-One is suggesting. For a start, the early migrants to America had an environment that would sustain human life comfortably, a perpetual supply of air, water, food, building materials etc. If someone didn't want to stay with the group they could easily move further down river or whatever, collect some logs, build their own dwelling. They could even travel much further away and go exploring by trapping and training a horse, etc etc etc. With Mars-Ones proposed arrangement the Martian settlers are going to be be stuck in a tin can, with each other, forever, until they die, if you don't get along with anyone you're stuck with them, forever, you can't do your own thing. The early American settlers would have had beutiful scenery to walk around in and enjoy, streams and rivers to wash and swim in, fresh fish to catch and eat etc etc etc. I'll say it again, there's no comparison whatsoever.

I posted a few comments on the BBC Mars-One site, there's a guy on there called George, who has applied to go on this fairy tale. He said he couldn't see why there would be a problem with them burying their dead. I pointed out that he would have to dig a grave in ground that is frozen solid, the surface temperature on Mars varies between -140C and -63C most of the time, he would have to dig this grave without an excavator, or any other powered tools, by hand, with a shovel, whilst wearing a space suit. Of course if he punctured the suit during this exercise he would be dead. Sounds a lot harder than burying someone in an American field doesn't it.

Edited by Occams Razor, 02 May 2013 - 02:30 AM.






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