Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Hawking: 'Big Bang did not need God'


  • Please log in to reply
125 replies to this topic

#91    shrooma

shrooma

    Doesn't own a beard.

  • Member
  • 3,974 posts
  • Joined:14 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:leeds, UK.

  • Live.
    Sin.
    Die.

Posted 21 April 2013 - 07:38 AM

View PostFlyingAngel, on 21 April 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

The "how" doesn't matter, all that matter is the result.
.
i'm sure that hitler firmly believed that the end would justify the means too, and look how mistaken he was!
epic fail.

"Get off your knees, the party's over."
.
-How do you sleep-
The Stone Roses.

#92    FlyingAngel

FlyingAngel

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,417 posts
  • Joined:29 Jul 2009
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:04 PM

View Postshrooma, on 21 April 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

wrong, and wrong again.
i aren't using a computer, i'm using a mobile phone, and the android OS puts you onto a different page to edit.
Ok, but it still doesn't prove that you didn't make a mistake. It's just 3 buttons Quote, Edit, Reply. People used it everyday, you used it everyday. If there's really some kind of bug, people would know it right away. So it's rational to say that you made a mistake, until proven otherwise.


View Postshrooma, on 21 April 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

such as believing in a creation myth and denying evolution maybe....?
Probably. Actually you can believe in both at the same time.


View Postshrooma, on 21 April 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

i'm sure that hitler firmly believed that the end would justify the means too, and look how mistaken he was!
epic fail.
He believed is one thing. The results that everyone looked at it matters (massacre, bloods, etc...)

So instead of going to a bar, have a beer with girls. Some people choose to go to a church, pray, to give himself comfort. Same result.
Or are you saying it's wrong, they have to do it your way?


#93    shrooma

shrooma

    Doesn't own a beard.

  • Member
  • 3,974 posts
  • Joined:14 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:leeds, UK.

  • Live.
    Sin.
    Die.

Posted 21 April 2013 - 02:10 PM

View PostFlyingAngel, on 21 April 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:


Ok, but it still doesn't prove that you didn't make a mistake. It's just 3 buttons Quote, Edit, Reply. People used it everyday, you used it everyday. If there's really some kind of bug, people would know it right away. So it's rational to say that you made a mistake, until proven otherwise.
.
there is a difference between a 'bug' and a 'glitch'.
.




Probably. Actually you can believe in both at the same time.
.
creationism and evolution are mutually exclusive, unless the god that made us 'in his own image' was an amoeba.....
.




He believed is one thing. The results that everyone looked at it matters (massacre, bloods, etc...)

So instead of going to a bar, have a beer with girls. Some people choose to go to a church, pray, to give himself comfort. Same result.
Or are you saying it's wrong, they have to do it your way?
.
that doesn't make any kind of sense??

"Get off your knees, the party's over."
.
-How do you sleep-
The Stone Roses.

#94    rustygh

rustygh

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 70 posts
  • Joined:17 Mar 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SoCal

  • “For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
    ― Carl Sagan

Posted 22 April 2013 - 04:06 AM

Whether anti big bang, or a god freak.  One thing is completely clear. There is more evidence of a big bang then of a god. I follow the ideas of hawking because he is a brilliant mind, and I'm not closed in thought by a fictions religion of any kind. If you have new evidence to bring to the party by all means share it. I crave something new about any god, but its always the same dribble backed by the statement "I have faith" that to me means you are scared to not believe, you are weak. You cling to a religion and a god because of the myth of afterlife and if you are wrong you will be held from it.
That in it self was so brilliant of the humans that created these human religions. If any being deserves my worship it is those humans. They have fooled masses of people over hundreds of generations and have billions of followers. Props to the evil human mind!

Edited by rustygh, 22 April 2013 - 04:13 AM.


#95    Capt Amerika

Capt Amerika

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts
  • Joined:31 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Frozen Tundra of the USA

Posted 22 April 2013 - 02:03 PM

View Postrustygh, on 22 April 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

Whether anti big bang, or a god freak.  One thing is completely clear. There is more evidence of a big bang then of a god. I follow the ideas of hawking because he is a brilliant mind, and I'm not closed in thought by a fictions religion of any kind. If you have new evidence to bring to the party by all means share it. I crave something new about any god, but its always the same dribble backed by the statement "I have faith" that to me means you are scared to not believe, you are weak. You cling to a religion and a god because of the myth of afterlife and if you are wrong you will be held from it.
That in it self was so brilliant of the humans that created these human religions. If any being deserves my worship it is those humans. They have fooled masses of people over hundreds of generations and have billions of followers. Props to the evil human mind!

Wow.  I'm speechless.
This is the typical, "You are wrong, i am right" menatllity that i speak of when i say its a waste of time to even discuss.
You have no more evidence of "the big bang" than anyone here has of "God".  Yet you are somehow superior because its YOUR choice.
btw, The Big Bang also requires faith.
You have Faith in what you believe but cannot prove.
Some of us actually believe in God AND th Big Bang.
We just choose to believbe that they are somehow tied together.
And as a side note, mocking people for praying to a god through faith is quite intolerant for one but SCIENCE has proven that during periods of worship/meditation the human mind is relaxed and the body will actually reap benefits from it.  Do you reap any benefits from meditating to the Big Bang Theory?
And on a final note.... Opening a comment with a divisive statement tends to lessen your credibility and turn people of fto what you may have to say.  "anti big bang, or a god freak"


#96    sepulchrave

sepulchrave

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,810 posts
  • Joined:19 Apr 2009
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:15 PM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 22 April 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

You have no more evidence of "the big bang" than anyone here has of "God".  

Well there are at least five separate and distinct streams of observational evidence supporting the Big Bang theory.

View PostCapt Amerika, on 22 April 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

The Big Bang also requires faith.
Sure, but this is the faith that ``objective reality exists independent of human observation''.

Not all faiths are equal.

Having faith that the Sun will rise tomorrow is much less speculative than having faith that you will win the Lottery five times in a row.


#97    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 14,634 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:18 PM

You know I have utterly no faith that the sun will rise tomorrow.  I expect it to happen for good reason and don't need faith.


#98    rustygh

rustygh

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 70 posts
  • Joined:17 Mar 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SoCal

  • “For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
    ― Carl Sagan

Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:13 PM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 22 April 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Wow.  I'm speechless.
This is the typical, "You are wrong, i am right" menatllity that i speak of when i say its a waste of time to even discuss.
You have no more evidence of "the big bang" than anyone here has of "God".  Yet you are somehow superior because its YOUR choice.
btw, The Big Bang also requires faith.
You have Faith in what you believe but cannot prove.
Some of us actually believe in God AND th Big Bang.
We just choose to believbe that they are somehow tied together.
And as a side note, mocking people for praying to a god through faith is quite intolerant for one but SCIENCE has proven that during periods of worship/meditation the human mind is relaxed and the body will actually reap benefits from it.  Do you reap any benefits from meditating to the Big Bang Theory?
And on a final note.... Opening a comment with a divisive statement tends to lessen your credibility and turn people of fto what you may have to say.  "anti big bang, or a god freak"

hell of a lot of bs for being speechless?  

I do not believe the faith you talk about is needed to follow the scientific research and hypothesis shown about the big bang. Perhaps you do not understand the research therefore you believe you need faith but that is not how science works. You speak of a faith that has no scientific research or fact attached to it.

maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't asking your ideas about it, I was stating a simple fact. "there IS more proof and scientific possibility and factual research backing the big bang then any religion."

You can spout off about your god all you want but time and time again, but you have no proof.

You said "This is the typical, "You are wrong, i am right" menatllity that i speak of when i say its a waste of time to even discuss."

same old dribble we hear all the time from religion. I do not care how you feel about my post and I'm long past discussing religion with those people. Like I said if you have NEW information or valid scientific studies about religion please share it?

I didn't come in here and say a thing about what you post or your ideas. I voice my feelings and ideas on what I believe. Why is it I can't post religious nut jobs? that's how I see it, once again because of no proof.

I knew a sermon was a coming when I saw the words "I am speechless."  haha   anyway if I've offended you I apologies, truly didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I hope you live long and prosper, even with your religion.

Edited by rustygh, 22 April 2013 - 06:14 PM.


#99    Harte

Harte

    Supremely Educated Knower of Everything in Existence

  • Member
  • 9,804 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Memphis

  • Skeptic

Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:25 PM

The religious should take a moment and realize that the Big Bang is not only not incompatible with certain religious myths, but it is aligned with those myths to an astonishing accuracy.

Or, what would the result of "let there be light" actually look like?

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
Anybody like Coleridge?

#100    shrooma

shrooma

    Doesn't own a beard.

  • Member
  • 3,974 posts
  • Joined:14 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:leeds, UK.

  • Live.
    Sin.
    Die.

Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:35 PM

(harte, there wasn't any light for thousands of years after the big bang dude, it was too hot to form photons.....)
(he says in a stage whisper)
;-)


"Get off your knees, the party's over."
.
-How do you sleep-
The Stone Roses.

#101    Capt Amerika

Capt Amerika

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts
  • Joined:31 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Frozen Tundra of the USA

Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:47 PM

So, since we obviously have the folks with all the answers here....
What came before the big bang?  Where did it come from?
We all agree it happened, i'm just waiting for the smart fellas to explain why it happened and what caused it.


#102    sepulchrave

sepulchrave

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,810 posts
  • Joined:19 Apr 2009
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:18 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 22 April 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

You know I have utterly no faith that the sun will rise tomorrow.  I expect it to happen for good reason and don't need faith.
Perhaps not, but at some level science is based on what I think can reasonably described as ``faith''.

Scientific theories, like all theories, are based on axioms. These axioms provide the starting assumptions for the theory; proving these axioms is not possible within the confines of that theory.

I think one could call these axioms the ``basis of faith in science''; these are the things that must be accepted without proof.

Obviously a key aspect of science is reducing the set of axioms as much as possible (in stark contrast to religion).

But at some point you will end up with axioms like:
The behaviour of physical objects can be accurately predicted with mathematical expressions, and reality adheres to rules which can be deduced using logic, reason, and mathematics, that cannot be ``proven'', because we don't have access to tools that are not already assumed by the axiom. (Basically Godel's incompleteness theorem.)

I bring this up because, in my opinion, debates between science and religion should not involve the claim that science does not rely on faith, but rather that science strives to remove as much faith as possible; and if not express those elements of faith in a way that is at least testable.

Start with a few basic scientific axioms, and one can derive the laws that govern the motion of the planets (as just one example).

Start with a rather large book full of basic religious axioms (i.e., the Bible), and I am not sure what you can derive.


#103    Harte

Harte

    Supremely Educated Knower of Everything in Existence

  • Member
  • 9,804 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Memphis

  • Skeptic

Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:27 PM

View Postshrooma, on 22 April 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

(harte, there wasn't any light for thousands of years after the big bang dude, it was too hot to form photons.....)
(he says in a stage whisper)
;-)
Phht!

A mere blink of an eye.

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
Anybody like Coleridge?

#104    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 36,209 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:46 PM

View PostHeaven Is A Halfpipe, on 18 April 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Big Bang theory has about as much evidence of existence as God.

Not quite, we know with on certainty bordering probability that the universe is expanding; if it is expanding it was smaller a moment ago, and much smaller a long while ago and, given the speed of expansion, concentrated on a pinhead about 13.000 billion years ago.  Given all that matter on a pinhead it had no choice but to blow up, which is a good explanation why the universe is still expanding.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#105    shrooma

shrooma

    Doesn't own a beard.

  • Member
  • 3,974 posts
  • Joined:14 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:leeds, UK.

  • Live.
    Sin.
    Die.

Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:37 AM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 22 April 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:


What came before the big bang?
Where did it come from?
We all agree it happened
.
fields of potentiality.
everywhere.
some people don't.
:-)

"Get off your knees, the party's over."
.
-How do you sleep-
The Stone Roses.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users