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Destruction of Hell


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#31    conspiracy buff

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:12 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 20 April 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

You forgot to include this:  "But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [ Matthew 8:12]" Outer darkness = Void, perhaps? Therefore, hell is a conscious state of torment, not just a location. As I have mentioned earlier, the Book of Revelation provokes controversy. Not all Christians believe it; however almost all believe in the Book of Daniel.

Peace.

It has probably been a proposed theory before, but I will venture to say that Hell is an actual place that is indeed a void.  However, it is inside one of the many unseen dimensions that exist within the Earth itself.  Mainstream science has just started to consider the multiple dimension theory in the last few years as a plausible one.  Maybe "outer darkness" means a darkness outside of our physical realm that exists in the other dimension known as Hell?  Just a thought.

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#32    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:57 AM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 22 April 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

It has probably been a proposed theory before, but I will venture to say that Hell is an actual place that is indeed a void.  However, it is inside one of the many unseen dimensions that exist within the Earth itself.  Mainstream science has just started to consider the multiple dimension theory in the last few years as a plausible one.  Maybe "outer darkness" means a darkness outside of our physical realm that exists in the other dimension known as Hell?  Just a thought.
Hi conspiracy buff,

Another dimension's the location I was alluding to when I mentioned the Void; however, I have already mentioned this on several posts. Actually, I've experienced this realm; therefore, it's not a theory to me...and weeping invisible tears and total fear and betrayal engulfed my being. First-hand account's the reason why I always point out for people to REALLY know the (religious or none) path they've chosen.

Betrayal and actually seeing (the faceless) Jesus Christ are the factors for switching back to my Christian root. There are demons disguised as holier-than-thou [pseudo] gods out there. BEWARE. I may have been fooled once but never again.

Lesson learned.

Peace.

Edited by braveone2u, 22 April 2013 - 11:21 AM.

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#33    Mr Walker

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:49 AM

View Postmarkprice, on 21 April 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

Then the lake of fire would have to be the earth's core and something like a volcano forming the pillar of smoke.



Removed or destroyed?



John was a trained adept; Danial was more of a natural mystic (is that right). All of the symbolism has esoteric meaning and some say nothing to do with the end of the world. As an esoteric allegory from genesis to revelations it composes a form of initiation into a more advanced state of human/divine consciousness. Within that is the phenomena of hell. If all evil is burned out or removed it would still have to exist if heaven was to continue to exist. But there may be a new heaven (another bible detail I'm not clear on) so some sort of new hell...that is if we accept the balance of energy theory.
Not necessarily the bible words indicate that the surface of the earth is cleansed by all consuming fire AFTER the death of all evil in a lake of fire on the surface. The pillar of smoke from this lake seemed to observers  to disappear into the sky in an "endless"  or very high shape.

There are three  relevant comments in revelations first; that there shall be no more death decay PAIN or SUFFERING (which precludes anyone suffering in hell) Second, thatsinners will die the second death  of body and soul ie tha they will cease to exist both as body and a self aware consciousnesses (not suffer torment in hell) and last; that in the new  time there will be" no more curse" only the throne of god and of the lamb ie that; hell, satan, sinners evil etc., will no longer co-exist with gods kingdom.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#34    Philangeli

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:19 AM

View PostlibstaK, on 20 April 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:

Or not creating our personal versions of it.

Yes, we may well have our own personal versions of hell, but that doesn't preclude the possible independent existence of hell, but rather, it implies that there is a hell from which we derive our personal versions or interpretations.

Edited by Philangeli, 23 April 2013 - 07:27 AM.

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#35    Philangeli

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:34 AM

View Postmarkprice, on 19 April 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

Glad that worked for you but sadly it had no effect on hell (you knew that, or at least you knew I would say that?).



True except for the willingly part that is half right.

Like the braveone, I had a void experience recently--not sure about his details--and there was nothing willing about it. It was a total loss of gravity in spinning darkness; as I rushed downward I thought: this is that damned tunnel to hell again and I've been there and done that so I decided to stop by finding sort of a vertical compass. It was like pushing my feet down against the walls of a tube until I stopped. I snapped out of it but then my life fell apart a month later with blood-clot-paralysis etc.

I would never willingly do that.

I see the 'hell' we sometimes experience in this life as a forewarning, in the same way that we may occasionally have glimpses of heaven. A 'taste' of what we may consider to be hell in this life is a spiritual mystery - why do some experience more of it than others? However, the experience of great suffering in this life does not necessarily mean one is in hell, even if one labels it as such.

Those who 'willingly' descend into hell (from a Christian perspective), have long gone past the tipping point of possible salvation. These are the souls who despise and curse God for eternity. If they did have an ounce of remorse or regret left in them, they would cry out for help, and they would receive it, in which case, they would then be in a state of purgatory.

Edited by Philangeli, 23 April 2013 - 07:37 AM.

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#36    libstaK

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:00 AM

View PostPhilangeli, on 23 April 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

Yes, we may well have our own personal versions of hell, but that doesn't preclude the possible independent existence of hell, but rather, it implies that there is a hell from which we derive our personal versions or interpretations.
We derive our personal versions from the creative juices of our mind, mostly from all the things that scare the crap out of us and go bump in the night.

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If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
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#37    Jessica Christ

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:09 PM

First, I have always wanted to form a team and assault the hellgates.

Secondly, does it matter if whoever is down there has already defeated either by themselves or by Jesus?

Then there is the fact that hell is already destroyed so what we really want to do is restore it and everyone in it back to their original graceful states.

Finally, if you want to help in this then find someone from the past and pray for them. Who knows, maybe your prayers will be enough for grace to reach them and maybe we also can change the past in this manner.

If God's forgiveness can wipe out past actions then that is changing the past, a form of it, and we also have the power to forgive those who have wrong us, whatever they commited will also be changed by your act.

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 23 April 2013 - 12:12 PM.


#38    libstaK

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:11 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 23 April 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

First, I have always wanted to form a team and assault the hellgates.

Secondly, does it matter if whoever is down there has already defeated either by themselves or by Jesus?

Then there is the fact that hell is already destroyed so what we really want to do is restore it and everyone in it back to their original graceful states.

Finally, if you want to help in this then find someone from the past and pray for them. Who knows, maybe your prayers will be enough for grace to reach them and maybe we also can change the past in this manner.

If God's forgiveness can wipe out past actions then that is changing the past, a form of it, and we also have the power to forgive those who have wrong us, whatever they commited will also be changed by your act.
I like your fighting spirit, destroy hell by emptying it and restore someone to the experience of love all in one foul swoop :tu:

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#39    markprice

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:12 PM

View Posteuroninja, on 21 April 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

You read too many New Age books. I have no problem with that as long as you don't put you theories in a Christian context. Read things about the gods, Enki and Elohim.

What? I don't think I've read any "new age books".  And don't tell me what to read, especially while contribution no information of your own.

edit: the christian context is where the theory that bothers you for no particular reason came from.

Edited by markprice, 23 April 2013 - 06:15 PM.

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#40    markprice

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:23 PM

View Posteuroninja, on 22 April 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:

Sounds more like you had a nightmare and a stroke. Sorry to hear that.

You again...no it was far more than a nightmare and not a stroke.

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#41    markprice

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:49 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 23 April 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

Not necessarily the bible words indicate that the surface of the earth is cleansed by all consuming fire AFTER the death of all evil in a lake of fire on the surface. The pillar of smoke from this lake seemed to observers  to disappear into the sky in an "endless"  or very high shape.

Couldn't have been the entire surface of the earth(all consuming) if there were observers.

Quote

There are three  relevant comments in revelations first; that there shall be no more death decay PAIN or SUFFERING (which precludes anyone suffering in hell) Second, thatsinners will die the second death  of body and soul ie tha they will cease to exist both as body and a self aware consciousnesses (not suffer torment in hell) and last; that in the new  time there will be" no more curse" only the throne of god and of the lamb ie that; hell, satan, sinners evil etc., will no longer co-exist with gods kingdom.

I already posted a few bible quotes that contradict your theory. What does forever and ever mean to you? I agree there will have to be a separation if the new earth will not be so easily corrupted by evil, and that would explain the end of pain and suffering to some extent, but it sure wont be on a planet like Earth for there will be no more Sea, according to revelations. I think that is more of a description of the new heaven.

No longer co-existing would be a natural state because evil is entirely unnatural/inhuman IMO. As far as the bible goes nothing "precludes suffering in hell".

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#42    markprice

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:15 PM

View PostPhilangeli, on 23 April 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

I see the 'hell' we sometimes experience in this life as a forewarning, in the same way that we may occasionally have glimpses of heaven. A 'taste' of what we may consider to be hell in this life is a spiritual mystery - why do some experience more of it than others? However, the experience of great suffering in this life does not necessarily mean one is in hell, even if one labels it as such.

Those who 'willingly' descend into hell (from a Christian perspective), have long gone past the tipping point of possible salvation. These are the souls who despise and curse God for eternity. If they did have an ounce of remorse or regret left in them, they would cry out for help, and they would receive it, in which case, they would then be in a state of purgatory.

Exactly, it (experience) preceded physical hell which is a reflection of the spiritual hell. I got through it spiritually and now I have to get through it physically.


So then they will despise God in purgatory? Either that or your use of the word eternity has no meaning. I see what you are saying though, but why purgatory? They would have already been purged by the fires of hell...

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#43    Philangeli

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:02 AM

View Postmarkprice, on 23 April 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

Exactly, it (experience) preceded physical hell which is a reflection of the spiritual hell. I got through it spiritually and now I have to get through it physically.


So then they will despise God in purgatory? Either that or your use of the word eternity has no meaning. I see what you are saying though, but why purgatory? They would have already been purged by the fires of hell...

Sorry, on re-reading what I wrote, I can see that some of the words may have been confusing.

It is my understanding that hell and purgatory are 2 different spiritual states.
I didn't mean that a soul could be in hell, but still have a chance of being 'promoted' (so to speak) to purgatory.

Hell is the total and willing separation of the soul from God. In this state, the soul has no desire to reconcile with God, but quite the opposite.

The soul has knowingly expelled God's light from within and decided to embrace evil. Hell's fire is the soul's own anger, hatred and bitterness, eternally consuming itself.

In the state of purgatory, however, the soul accepts its suffering as it knows its sins are being purged by God's grace. It is not the fire of hell. The soul still contains the light of God and it knows its suffering will come to an end. The length of this suffering (according to Catholic tradition and the testimony of many saints) can be shortened through our own prayers and sacrifices.

Philangeli


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#44    Mr Walker

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:39 PM

View Postmarkprice, on 23 April 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

Couldn't have been the entire surface of the earth(all consuming) if there were observers.



I already posted a few bible quotes that contradict your theory. What does forever and ever mean to you? I agree there will have to be a separation if the new earth will not be so easily corrupted by evil, and that would explain the end of pain and suffering to some extent, but it sure wont be on a planet like Earth for there will be no more Sea, according to revelations. I think that is more of a description of the new heaven.

No longer co-existing would be a natural state because evil is entirely unnatural/inhuman IMO. As far as the bible goes nothing "precludes suffering in hell".

I will disagree with  you, but then the bible is not an easy book to agree on.  For example the quote you give of "forever and ever" I think,  from memory, is actually translated from a greek word eon which actually means for an indeterminate, if longish time not eternity..
I am not sure where you get the idea of a NEW heaven from. Heaven doesnt change nor do all the other civilizartions in heaven which were uncorrupted by the fall.

Only earth has to be renewed and restored to its original state.  It is quite likely for consistency in the bible writing, that in that  restored edenic state there would be no seas, as there were none in eden.The heavenly city with the garden of eden does "touch down" as a centrepiece of the new earth but in my understanding, biblically, heaven  consists of all of the universe governed by god. The heavenly city is the place of governance for all of heaven

. But i have no particular investment in the bible as literal truth. I study it find it fascinating and informative and live by it, as both a book written by men and women in contact with god, and also as a good practical way to live my life. It also has many very important spiritual truths about the nature of humanity and how to be happy and fulfilled; Indeed how to create heaven on earth, in our lives today.

Much more important and significant to me is my personal ongoing relationship with god. Books (even the bible) are not really needed for this, although they can be interesting and helpful. God teaches, mentors, and interacts with me as he did with those in the bible. This is how all humans are meant to live, in my opinion, because it fulfils what we are capable of being.

The words of christ and others in the bible make real sense only when you live with god.Then they all become clear and self evidently  true.  

The wages of sin is death, not eternal suffering. And the god i know and love offers only life rather than death, not eternal damnation or suffering. That theology was introduced by the catholics many years after the introduction of christianity, and personally I do not find it in the bible. It turns more people away from a relationship with god than it brings to him and so, why would it be god's expectation or part of the message of the bible.? The christian God is a god of love and mercy albeit just. He does not condemn us to death, but offers everyone of us eternal life. We chose death by our own choices, thoughts and deeds.

Edited by Mr Walker, 24 April 2013 - 01:45 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#45    euroninja

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:47 AM

View Postmarkprice, on 23 April 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

It was a total loss of gravity in spinning darkness; as I rushed downward I thought: this is that damned tunnel to hell again and I've been there and done that so I decided to stop by finding sort of a vertical compass. It was like pushing my feet down against the walls of a tube until I stopped.

You again...no it was far more than a nightmare and not a stroke.
You were strung out on heavy drugs. I've done the spinning in darkness and snapping out of it....................... No big deal.





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